Islamic Justice: girl lashed for being raped; rapist pardoned

[Autodidact]

I guess I would ask what exactly is it that people think is not accurate. maro seems to think they're completely made up.

Oh, and in some way I can't follow, I think it was .lava who intimated that non-Muslim countries are in some way responsible.

 

[Riverwolf]

I guess I would ask what exactly is it that people think is not accurate. maro seems to think they're completely made up.

Not the articles, themselves, I don't think. She believes the idea that Egypt punishes the raped and lets the rapist go free is false, and the fact that she lives in Egypt basically gives her all kinds of credibility on that subject: far more than any Western news reporter.

 

[Autodidact]

I believe this is the only statement I made about Egypt:

In countires such as Pakistan, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran, Yemen, Morocco and other Mediterranean and Gulf countries, rape victims, women suspected of engaging in premarital sex, and women accused of adultery are murdered by their relatives – the violation of a woman’s chastity is seen as an affront to the family’s honor.

Does maro deny this statement?

According to the UN in 2002:
"The report of the Special Rapporteur ... concerning cultural practices in the family that are violent towards women (E/CN.4/2002/83), indicated that honour killings had been reported in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, the Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey, Yemen, and other Mediterranean and Persian Gulf countries, and that they had also taken place in western countries such as France, Germany and the United Kingdom, within migrant communities."

Egypt: A number of studies on honor crimes by The Centre of Islamic and Middle Eastern Law, at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London, includes one which reports on Egypt's legal system, noting a gender bias in favor of men in general, and notably article 17 of the Penal Code : judicial discretion to allow reduced punishment in certain circumstance, often used in honor killings case.
[wiki]

Here's a UN report written by an Egyptian woman lawyer.

Honour crimes refer to the murder of a woman by her male family members for a
perceived violation of the social norms of sexuality, or a suspicion of women having
transgressed the limits of social behaviour imposed by traditions. This includes seeing
or meeting a man even if this is only a suspicion or a gossip. Honor crimes include
also a husband kills his wife whom he or other family members suspected her of
adultery. It is difficult to estimate the overall number of honour killings that take
place yearly in Egypt. An Egyptian report based on 1995 statistics counted 52 honor
killings (out of 819 murders) reported.
Neither Shariah nor modern laws have appropriately penalized the practice due to the
strong influence of the tribal system and popular beliefs about women's sexuality. In
addition, modern penal codes and also the practices reinforce the notion that men have
a "right" to punish women for improper sexual behaviour.

Does maro disagree?

 

[YmirGF]

What percentage of Muslims agree with you? What percentage with them?

we are minority

Um, so you have just admitted that the majority of Muslims do not believe as you do. This is, in my opinion, one of those moments when one just scratches their head in wonder.

MOST Muslims--not a whacked out groups of crazies, but the MAJORITY--agree with village council. And you blame non-Muslims for leaping to the conclusion that there is a problem with Islam?!?! For us, Islam = what the majority of Muslims say it is. As you acknowledge, it's very hard for us to deduce for ourselves.

I would go so far as to say it would be wrong for us, non-Muslims, to presume to tell Muslims what their religion dictates.

So we're left with the inescapable conclusion that Islam, as actually practiced by the majority, does very, very bad things.

But instead of being angry about that, the Muslims in this thread are all angry at ME for coming to that extremely reasonable conclusion.

*shakes head in wonder*

:clap:clap:clap

Not to worry, Auto. In time, you will come to expect reactions like you have received. What I find troubling is the extent that some Muslim apologists go to to make it all sound less significant. It's odd how that works.

 

[.lava]

This, I will take Auto's side on. I, too, was vastly opposed to the invasion, but our leaders, over whom we forget we have control, by the way, didn't see it as an invasion, but as a "liberation."

One person cannot stand against the government, and the majority of American citizens, believe it or not, are so caught up in their own little worlds that they don't really pay attention to what's going on in the world.

i know that. you have no power over desicions that your government makes. no matter what you think or feel, they would do whatever they want to do and they are. so why would anyone expect it to be different in Muslim nations? that's my point and that's why i ask. i would not ask a question like "hey Autodidact, why did not you prevent invasion of Iraq?" in a serious manner



.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

i know that. you have no power over desicions that your government makes. no matter what you think or feel, they would do whatever they want to do and they are. so why would anyone expect it to be different in Muslim nations? that's my point and that's why i ask. i would not ask a question like "hey Autodidact, why did not do prevent invasion of Iraq?" in a serious manner
.

Sadly no one seems to get this. I do, and I totally get what you are saying.

 

[.lava]

I guess I would ask what exactly is it that people think is not accurate. maro seems to think they're completely made up.

Oh, and in some way I can't follow, I think it was .lava who intimated that non-Muslim countries are in some way responsible.

responsible?...nope...i would not say that. if some Muslim leaders betrayaled their people, it is not fault of others. they are responsible themselves naturally



.

 

[Perfect Circle]

As thought criminal has proven time and time again.

I told him Muslims are completely ignored when they defend themselves.

What are you talking about? All Auto has been trying to do this entire thread is gather the mainstream Muslim view on this and other rape related injustices in the Islamic world. She's diligently responded to every one of the only active Muslim's posts on this thread, and done it in a respectful way. I don't see anyone being ignored but Auto.

 

[Perfect Circle]

This is what is called internet fighters, people who sit behind a desk and talk smack.

...says the guy sitting behind a desk and talking smack.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I am not sure why it is so complicated? Many people use religion in bad ways, yet there are still MANY like .lava that have nothing to do with those who abuse the religion. What is the problem?????????????????????

 

[Just_me_Mike]

...says the guy sitting behind a desk and talking smack.

The injustices I can see directly around me I fix. Just ask my wife, I do some crazy **** when I see injustice happening in my area. No worries there my friend, but I can't afford to fly to Bangladesh :areyoucra

 

[Perfect Circle]

and you should invade any Muslim nation with that decade old excuse, bomb, arrest, torture and kill whoever you want, enter anywhere you want even without permission of current government, act like owner of the world and at the same time force your own people to economic crisis because cleaning Middle East from Muslims is much more important than your citizens...i wonder why...

so, why did not you prevent invasion of Iraq, Autodidact?



.

So, if I understand you correctly... the west is to blame for the unjust uses of sharia and hadith law? Because they're fabricating stories of unjust Islamic governments, and invading every Muslim country they can? Is that about the gist?

And Auto couldn't stop the invasion of Iraq because we live in a Representative-Democracy. She's one citizen, had her say, but the majority of citizens and representatives out out-weighed her decision. It sucks, but that's democracy in action.

 

[.lava]

Um, so you have just admitted that the majority of Muslims do not believe as you do. This is, in my opinion, one of those moments when one just scratches their head in wonder.

yep i am not admitting but yea there might be maybe 100 million among 1 billion


.

 

[Mister_T]

***MOD POST***

Folks, let's make sure that we're all keeping this thread on the topic, and not making off-topic posts about each other.

Thanks!
​

 

[Just_me_Mike]

yep i am not admitting but yea there might be maybe 100 million among 1 billion


.

It is quite simple, if one chooses PEACE every time, over war, they typically have the religion correct. I would suspect that is .lava. Obviously not for those of Bangladesh.

 

[Perfect Circle]

The injustices I can see directly around me I fix. Just ask my wife, I do some crazy **** when I see injustice happening in my area. No worries there my friend, but I can't afford to fly to Bangladesh :areyoucra

You've got government representatives that work for you. The US has a lot of weight to throw around. Maybe you could write them and implore them to change some aspect of the US's foreign policy to combat such injustices.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

You've got government representatives that work for you. The US has a lot of weight to throw around. Maybe you could write them and implore them to change some aspect of the US's foreign policy to combat such injustices.

As I said I am taking care of what I can see and touch. I have no faith in the US government, none what so ever.

 

[Perfect Circle]

i know that. you have no power over desicions that your government makes. no matter what you think or feel, they would do whatever they want to do and they are. so why would anyone expect it to be different in Muslim nations? that's my point and that's why i ask. i would not ask a question like "hey Autodidact, why did not you prevent invasion of Iraq?" in a serious manner



.

Actually .lava, she does have power. She has just as much power as the next person. She votes for her representatives in congress, and directly votes for the the president. I don't know who she voted for in the last election, but I'm sure it was someone who opposes/opposed the invasion of Iraq. Representatives are obligated to vote as the majority of their consituents would, and in that small way, Auto has a voice in American foreign policy.

Granted, it's 1 voice of 300 million, but it's a voice none the less.

 

[.lava]

So, if I understand you correctly... the west is to blame for the unjust uses of sharia and hadith law? Because they're fabricating stories of unjust Islamic governments, and invading every Muslim country they can? Is that about the gist?

And Auto couldn't stop the invasion of Iraq because we live in a Representative-Democracy. She's one citizen, had her say, but the majority of citizens and representatives out out-weighed her decision. It sucks, but that's democracy in action.

i would not hold American citizens responsible for actions of USA government. in other words it is not Autodidact who invaded Iraq and i know that. therefor i would not attack her as if she was responsible or i would not attack entire American culture as if it is responsible of Iraq. it is only bunch of powerful men who's responsible. and among entire Muslim population it is only bunch of men who decides what Sharia law should be, bunch of men who decide which hadith is fabricated and masses have no power over authority just like American people can not control their governments


.

 

[Perfect Circle]

As I said I am taking care of what I can see and touch. I have no faith in the US government, none what so ever.

Seems to have done us pretty well for the past 200 or so years...