Islamic Justice: girl lashed for being raped; rapist pardoned

[.lava]

Actually .lava, she does have power. She has just as much power as the next person. She votes for her representatives in congress, and directly votes for the the president. I don't know who she voted for in the last election, but I'm sure it was someone who opposes/opposed the invasion of Iraq. Representatives are obligated to vote as the majority of their consituents would, and in that small way, Auto has a voice in American foreign policy.

Granted, it's 1 voice of 300 million, but it's a voice none the less.

vote one more time if you can that does not change the result. same power would be in power yet just because you kill your time voting, you think you have a voice, tragic



.

 

[Perfect Circle]

i would not hold American citizens responsible for actions of USA government. in other words it is not Autodidact who invaded Iraq and i know that. therefor i would not attack her as if she was responsible or i would not attack entire American culture as if it is responsible of Iraq. it is only bunch of powerful men who's responsible. and among entire Muslim population it is only bunch of men who decides what Sharia law should be, bunch of men who decide which hadith is fabricated and masses have no power over authority just like American people can not control their governments


.

I'm sorry .lava, but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Any American citizen has control over the government. If you don't don't act as the majority of your constituents want you to act, then you get the boot. I know this sounds odd, but you should IN FACT be upset with the majority of American citizens for the invasion of Iraq. Several of my personal friends thought it was the right thing to do. Several of them still think it's the right thing to do.

Now I will agree that the last administration botched a lot of information up that may have been deceptive to the American public, but the choice was still mostly that of the citizens, IMHO.

 

[Perfect Circle]

vote one more time if you can that does not change the result. same power would be in power yet just because you kill your time voting, you think you have a voice, tragic



.

I'm sorry, I know you're not a native English speaker, but could you please rephrase that? I'm not sure I understand your meaning.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Are you a child perhaps? Really? you call what is going on right now pretty well?
Come on man, are smoking something?

As opposed to all the other perfect governments in the world...

Can I ask where you'd rather live? Utopia? Star Trek Federation? Fortress of Solitude?

If you don't like it, make an effort to change it or move.

 

[Quagmire]

Seems to have done us pretty well for the past 200 or so years...

Us, yes. A lot of our neighbors have a legitimate gripe or two.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Us, yes. A lot of our neighbors have a legitimate gripe or two.

Every nation has committed injustices in their past. The entire international community taken into account... we're not any worse than any other nation.

 

[.lava]

I'm sorry, I know you're not a native English speaker, but could you please rephrase that? I'm not sure I understand your meaning.

presidents change, agenda remains. anyways, we are warned, we go off topic because of me


.

 

[Perfect Circle]

presidents change, agenda remains. anyways, we are warned, we go off topic because of me


.

Oh, ok. BTW, if you think it would help, I'd like to start a thread to discuss all of the perceived injustices within Qu'aranic, Hadith, or Sharia law... I'd like to include several of the stories listed in this thread, and I'll make sure to name it something that doesn't offend the sensibilities of Muslims. I can't believe that the rational views you hold on the subject are the minority among Muslims. It just doesn't seem right, and I'd like to discuss that.

 

[Autodidact]

i know that. you have no power over desicions that your government makes. no matter what you think or feel, they would do whatever they want to do and they are. so why would anyone expect it to be different in Muslim nations? that's my point and that's why i ask. i would not ask a question like "hey Autodidact, why did not you prevent invasion of Iraq?" in a serious manner



.

I do not agree. The U.S. is a democracy. We do control our government. That does not mean any individual does, or that change is quick, but we can change government policies here. When the U.S. invaded Iraq, the majority of Americans supported that decision. (Of course, a lot of that is because they were lied to, but then, they voted for the liars as well.) In any case, I was not among them.

But in this thread, I'm not so much asking Muslims to actually prevent these actions, as just to give their opinion on them. Most of them preferred to be upset at me for calling them Islamic, despite the fact that at least one of them (.lava) admits that the majority of Muslims agree with them!

 

[Autodidact]

i would not hold American citizens responsible for actions of USA government. in other words it is not Autodidact who invaded Iraq and i know that. therefor i would not attack her as if she was responsible or i would not attack entire American culture as if it is responsible of Iraq. it is only bunch of powerful men who's responsible. and among entire Muslim population it is only bunch of men who decides what Sharia law should be, bunch of men who decide which hadith is fabricated and masses have no power over authority just like American people can not control their governments


.

I disagree with this as well. We, the American people, are responsible for that horrible, illegal invasion. I am one of us, so I share in that responsibility. While I opposed it, I did not succeed in preventing it, so, unfortunately, I share some of that responsibility.

The American people do control our government, just not any individual American person.

 

[Autodidact]

vote one more time if you can that does not change the result. same power would be in power yet just because you kill your time voting, you think you have a voice, tragic



.

Do you live in a Democracy?
I am a very powerful person. I (and a few million others) got Barack Obama elected. I (and a few million others) will soon end the DADT policy.

 

[.lava]

Do you live in a Democracy?
I am a very powerful person. I (and a few million others) got Barack Obama elected. I (and a few million others) will soon end the DADT policy.

i do. i am sorry but i had enough of begging for empathy for a day. i see no reason to talk anymore


.

 

[Riverwolf]

You've got government representatives that work for you. The US has a lot of weight to throw around. Maybe you could write them and implore them to change some aspect of the US's foreign policy to combat such injustices.

Why would they listen to us?

 

[Riverwolf]

Actually .lava, she does have power. She has just as much power as the next person. She votes for her representatives in congress, and directly votes for the the president. I don't know who she voted for in the last election, but I'm sure it was someone who opposes/opposed the invasion of Iraq. Representatives are obligated to vote as the majority of their consituents would, and in that small way, Auto has a voice in American foreign policy.

Granted, it's 1 voice of 300 million, but it's a voice none the less.

It's one voice out of the small percentage of people who actually do vote, let alone the small percentage of people who actually care about current events in America.

 

[Thought Criminal]

why don't you start a new thread about Sharia your perceived view of sharia or whichever country is using a versiojn of sharia or about Rape in Bangladesh or wherever . Instead of badgering Lava.

With all due respect, I don't believe I'm badgering anyone.

TC

 

[Fatihah]

I do not agree. The U.S. is a democracy. We do control our government. That does not mean any individual does, or that change is quick, but we can change government policies here. When the U.S. invaded Iraq, the majority of Americans supported that decision. (Of course, a lot of that is because they were lied to, but then, they voted for the liars as well.) In any case, I was not among them.

But in this thread, I'm not so much asking Muslims to actually prevent these actions, as just to give their opinion on them. Most of them preferred to be upset at me for calling them Islamic, despite the fact that at least one of them (.lava) admits that the majority of Muslims agree with them!

Response: And it is the US democracy that has played a role in what takes place in muslim countries. It is the West in general, which played a major role in to what the muslim countries are in the state they are in to begin with.

 

[Quagmire]

Every nation has committed injustices in their past. The entire international community taken into account... we're not any worse than any other nation.

Of course. And considering some of the alternatives that have presented themselves in the last century or so, all in all the world's probably lucky we wound up driving the bus for a while.

But, we still have to take responsibility for our share of the blame for the problems in the world.

A lot of Americans in here keep harping on the backwards nature of some of the Middle Eastern countries and the brutal practices of some of their governments as if it were somehow indicative of an inherent lack of character among the people of these regions, or due mainly to the unfortunate emergence of what most of us (ignorantly) regard as an inherently violent and brutal belief system.

The truth is that the backward conditions of countries like Bangladesh are, at least as much as anything else, the direct result of centuries of colonialism and imperialism by western nations who realized long ago that it's easier to control a nation that's being ruled by oppressive, totalitarian regimes.

It's a lot easier and more profitable to manipulate and conspire with monarchs and tyrants than it is to placate and cooperate with an entire people or a representative goverment thereof.

So you what do you wind up with? You wind up with a population that doesn't have the option of trusting it's rulers, so naturally the people start turning to a higher authority that they feel they can place their faith in. You set up oppressive, feudalistic conditions where the common people have no hope of comfort or security in this life and naturally they start placing their hopes in the next life, and drawing whatever identity and purpose they can have in this life from these hopes.

It's easy and inevitable that, under these conditions, a literate and ambitious clergy should step in and use the trust and position they already have to steer their mostly illiterate, religiously inclined, and angry followers in any direction they want them to go.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: And it is the US democracy that has played a role in what takes place in muslim countries. It is the West in general, which played a major role in to wht the muslim countries are in the state they are in to begin with.

Is this supposed to relate to the subject of the thread in some way?

 

[darkendless]

Response: And it is the US democracy that has played a role in what takes place in muslim countries. It is the West in general, which played a major role in to what the muslim countries are in the state they are in to begin with.

Typical, blame the West for everything.

Maybe when you guys take responsibility for your own actions by your own people under your own religion and learn to deal with it rather than brushing it under the rug it may become less common. Until then, its dark ages punishment which is sick and twisted.

Blaming the West is weak and unwarrented.

 

[Fatihah]

Is this supposed to relate to the subject of the thread in some way?

Response: It relates to your recent post.