MatthiasGould
Alhamdulillah!
I'd agree.
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'Islamists'
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
Thanks. I knew the meaning of the words but failed to think of them at the time.
As for your question: it eventually would end in some way, so yes. Perhaps not in something that we would call Islam now, but so what?
For all anyone really knows, God exists and wants believers to be bold and strong in faith enough to openly challenge the bare letter of scripture when that is necessary to show actual moral and religious virtue. Maybe that is the Muslims' ultimate destiny.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Algeria didn't call them Islamist but rather terrorist so should we call Christian or Secular Terrorist Christianists? Or Secularists or something bizarre?
I am an Islamist and i think the word is often miss-used and defined wrongly by the western people it simply means that you hold the view that Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life and nothing more.
I am an Islamist and i think the word is often miss-used and defined wrongly by the western people it simply means that you hold the view that Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life and nothing more.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Define the revise..
Islam has been revised over and over in the past by great scholars and individuals. If you mean revise in religious texts or practices that are Islamic then you will never get it if you mean in evolving and making progress that is always welcome.
Looncall
Well-Known Member
Sorry,you're right, the last one. Thanks.
If all the very many scriptures in the Quran about how an unbeliever will be made to suffer hell are just metaphor then the Quran can not possibly be for the average uneducated person who knows nothing about "metaphors".
Please explain how an uneducated and below average intelligence guy can hear these very many scriptures about the unbeliever's plight and not think violence? Violence equals violence metaphor or no metaphor. Peace equals peace. How are you making violence to equal peace?
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Maybe it isn't.
By being well guided by wise religious mentors, for one.
By learning how foolish it is to give literal meanings of scripture too much importance, perhaps.
Is it welcome?
I still hear Muslims bickering about whether women can travel more than 48 miles without a male guardian. I'm dead serious.
If that's the case, I can never go see my mother or my siblings without my husband being there? A woman needs a break, dude!
This is a real good point. It seems to me, what little I know of it, the Quran is about rules and regulations which are definitely NOT metaphor. It is clear the Quran threatens the reader with torture if the reader won't believe it.
To threaten is not peaceable. To torture is not peaceable. I'm talking about the words used, not the meaning behind the words which if you wish to be only metaphor knock yourself out.
The writer of the doctrine adored is not peaceable.
The power that will inflict the metaphor is not peaceable.
The average Joe might ask himself "what is being said here?" It sounds to me that the violent way is the way to go. The holy prophet is violent. The god is violent. The words are violent. What should I be?
The writer of the doctrine adored is not peaceable.
The power that will inflict the metaphor is not peaceable.
The average Joe might ask himself "what is being said here?" It sounds to me that the violent way is the way to go. The holy prophet is violent. The god is violent. The words are violent. What should I be?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Just so we're clear, this particular rule is from Hadith, not the Qur'an.
What's the diff? Aren't they the same importance?
Not at all. Others will no doubt explain why better than me, but I am fairly certain that
1) The Quran was written, according to doctrine, but God himself by way of Mohammed, much unlike the Hadiths.
2) The validity of Hadiths is a perenial discussion topic among Muslims, with statements that specific Hadiths are of dubious origin or validity not at all uncommon. There may be a relation to specific sects (Shia or Sunni).
3) A strong Quranist movement has developed and supports emphasizing the Quran itself and giving less attention to all Hadiths.
Truth be told, I would appreciate some information about the origins and current standing of the Hadiths.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Oh, yeah that's right. I think it depends on the Islamic denomination.
Yes, some Muslims should explain the importance here, I think.
Musty
Active Member
How Islam is practiced reflects the culture in which it's practiced. That there are conflicting versions of it is to be expected.
It's also to be expected that people will favor one version over another depending on what their position that are arguing for.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Like all words "Islamist" has come to mean Just what people now "Understand" it to mean.
The Algerians were using it to mean Islamic terrorists, as do the reports. I do not think that there is any one here did not understand what they meant. Some people might think the term is pejorative but we all understand it.
BBC News - Algeria siege: Hostages 'escape Islamist captors'
The Algerians were using it to mean Islamic terrorists, as do the reports. I do not think that there is any one here did not understand what they meant. Some people might think the term is pejorative but we all understand it.
BBC News - Algeria siege: Hostages 'escape Islamist captors'
Not the worst of it: American Thinker: Top ten rules in the Quran that oppress women
Religions often put themselves in a tight corner with revision. Change the Quran and you are simultaneously questioning its divinity.
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No, although you will find Muslims who believe they are. I don't.
Good job, Luis. You did a great job explaining.
Muslims believe the Qur'an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad, over time, through Angel Jibril. Muhammad was illiterate, so every revelation he received over the years was memorized by him, said aloud and transcribed. Scribes then put the Qur'an in order and that's the book we have today. If you pick up a Qur'an anywhere in the world, it will be the same in Arabic. Translations vary, of course, but the Arabic, down to the markings over the vowels, will be the same.
Hadith and Sunnah are different.
Sunnah is comprised of actions the Prophet did; how he behaved, how he ate, manners, etc., basically anything that's visible.
Hadith are the written accounts of both what the Prophet DID and what he SAID. Simple, right? Here's the kicker: Hadith were not put into written form until a couple hundred years after his death. There is a science to the study of Hadith, called "isnad", that studies the lineage of a Hadith. If the Hadith is traceable with accuracy, and the most respected Hadith is called "sahih". There are a few other classifications, but for the sake of simplicity, "sahih" is what we will refer to. The Prophet's companions (known as the "Sahabah") were the closest to him outside of his wives. These are who we refer to for anything that the Prophet said or did.
Things get murky for "Qur'anists" vs. everyone else with some Qur'anic verses that says this:
Here the word "hadith" and "sunnah" come into question; it's complicated, but those who follow the Qur'an only believe that these two terms are referring to Allah's verses and not to anything revealed after the Prophet's death.
There is a very interesting thread in the Islam DIR that describes some differences between Qur'an-only rulings and those of Hadith. The premise is that any Hadith that contradicts or changes the meaning of the Qur'an in any way needs to be disregarded (and there are many that do contradict the Qur'an, in fact). All Muslims will agree with that, but those who follow Hadith will argue that most Hadith are valid and they further explain the Qur'an rather than contradict it. They believe the Prophet was afforded liberties to use himself as an example to explain what Allah meant; for example, praying. The Qur'an prescribes prayer (3, actually), but doesn't go into describing HOW to pray. The Prophet demonstrated the prayer, varying it slightly at times to prevent rigidity. Qur'anists believe that everything you need to know about Islam is in the Qur'an, as Allah says the Qur'an is a complete book, never to be added to or followed with any other books.
We could get into the four schools of thought as well, but I think my brain would explode.
do you perform salat ??? is not salat from hadith?Just so we're clear, this particular rule is from Hadith, not the Qur'an.