'Islamists'

[LuisDantas]

Point taken about you not being a Quranist.

Not my place to say.

Or maybe it is. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, after all.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Call me a Qur'anist, call me a kaafir... whatever.

Can I call you remarkable?

 

[beenie]

Can I call you remarkable?

Of course!

 

[F0uad]

Even funnier that I'm now being accused of speaking for Qur'anists? :help:

Not really

Isn't it natural? From the outside, the controversies about how to deal with Hadiths in relation to the Quran look fairly central to the current inner controversies of the Muslim community

I don't belief Muslims in the East really care what the West thinks about them except the Western Muslims? I don't know what the point is though because some verses that speak of war defiantly need a Hadith interpretation. Lets not forget that these "Terrorist'' most of the time only use Quran's without Hadith interpretations or any education regarding those verses. Denying the hadiths is denying history in my eyes.

 

[YmirGF]

Call me a Qur'anist, call me a kaafir... whatever.

Will "a lovely human being" do?

 

[beenie]

Will "a lovely human being" do?

Absolutely.

 

[beenie]

Not really

OK, go ahead, F0uad, why don't you speak for me then? Obviously you know me better than I know myself.

I don't belief Muslims in the East really care what the West thinks about them except the Western Muslims? I don't know what the point is though because some verses that speak of war defiantly need a Hadith interpretation. Lets not forget that these "Terrorist'' most of the time only use Quran's without Hadith interpretations or any education regarding those verses. Denying the hadiths is denying history in my eyes.

... yes, in YOUR eyes, and no one is denying you that right.

I don't recall denying all Hadith, only saying that I find many of them cause argument even among Muslims *everywhere*, not just in the big, bad West. I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree, my friend.

 

[cowboy]

Is that even a problem, though? One can legitimally believe that the Quran is inerrant and the Hadiths are unstrustworthy and use the recommendations for Salat practice nevertheless.

All that means is that the form of Salat is not inquestionable and immutable. Hardly a major problem.

of course they can, but see what ssainhu said in her post when i asked her whether qura'nists take recommendations from hadiths

Depends on who you ask. Sunnis will say yes, Qur'anists will say no.

this is why i requested her to stop talking on behalf of Qura'nists, she is spreading wrong information here knowingly or unknowingly that there are people who dont follow hadeeth, being that she is not a qura'nist or dont know about their practice and belief. It just creates confusion in peoples mind.

 

[cowboy]

I never claimed to represent Qur'anists, nor did I claim to be one.

i did not mean you tried to represent qura'nists, but you made the statement about them that they will say 'no' if asked if they follow hadiths to get methods for their salats. You should not say things about which you are unsure of.

Not sure where you got that idea.

from the yahoo answers link you posted

 

[cowboy]

And what on earth are you even saying here? Who are you talking about?

you did not check the yahoo answers link which you posted here, do you?

 

[F0uad]

Why are you so personal? Why do you have problems with my views? I find the Hadiths very useful i and did not condemn your beliefs or opinions even if they seem so radical in my eyes.

OK, go ahead, F0uad, why don't you speak for me then? Obviously you know me better than I know myself.

What are you talking about? I simply made the point that i am not surprised and it is indeed hard to understand what you belief in or not.

... yes, in YOUR eyes, and no one is denying you that right.

I don't recall denying all Hadith, only saying that I find many of them cause argument even among Muslims *everywhere*, not just in the big, bad West. I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree, my friend.

I wasn't even talking about you but about myself...

Maybe you should take a break?

 

[LuisDantas]

of course they can, but see what ssainhu said in her post when i asked her whether qura'nists take recommendations from hadiths

this is why i requested her to stop talking on behalf of Qura'nists, she is spreading wrong information here knowingly or unknowingly that there are people who dont follow hadeeth, being that she is not a qura'nist or dont know about their practice and belief. It just creates confusion in peoples mind.

It seems to me that creating further confusion would be quite the achievement, sincerely.

I try hard to understand why following Hadiths is not a free form choice at the individual level. In fact, I try to understand why following them would be an issue at all.

But other than a vague sense that Islamic practice has divided into sects that more often than not present strong opinions and attempt to back them up with Hadiths, I have not really reached much of an understanding or even an opinion.

It will probably sound odd, even disrespectful to most Muslims, but I sure do feel that you take your scripture way too seriously. And I am firmly convinced that scripture is just about the less significant aspect of most any religion, to boot.

 

[sandandfoam]

It will probably sound odd, even disrespectful to most Muslims, but I sure do feel that you take your scripture way too seriously. And I am firmly convinced that scripture is just about the less significant aspect of most any religion, to boot.

I believe the Quran to be the word of God. In that sense I take it very seriously. But I am neither austere nor stern about it.
These are not my words - but I think they capture my view perfectly -

Allah named us muslim in a particular context. That context isn’t our name. We do not all have to change our names to ‘Muslim’ or ‘Muslimah’.
What is that context? That context, if one reads all the ayat about islam and muslim from Quran, is a description of our personal beliefs and actions. These beliefs and actions aren’t even limited to the people in the world we know as ‘Muslims’. Many, many people have them even if they have never opened Quran or use the term Muslim. One will see in Quran that the only acceptable deen is islam (3/19) yet many personalities have nothing to fear nor grieve (2/62 and 5/69). Why is this the case? Because ‘islam’ is not a name in the labelling sense, it’s an attitude

 

[sandandfoam]

Can I call you remarkable?

+1

I agree with Jay and everything ssainhu posted in this thread.

 

[sandandfoam]

For what it's worth, for quite some time, I've maintained that what we are seeing, particularly in North America and to a somewhat lesser extent in Europe, may well become a third major division within Islam. Modernist Islam, perhaps?

I think a distinctive European Islam is emerging.

 

[sandandfoam]

Do you eat Halal?

I am a vegan, so I suppose you could say that I do. My veganism is in part informed by my religious beliefs.

Abstain from alcohol?

Pretty much

Avoid pork?

see above

Preform Salat?

Yes

Planning to make the Hajj?

I'd love to

Pay Zakat?

Yes

Fast during the month of Ramadan?

Yes


But so what?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I am a vegan, so I suppose you could say that I do. My veganism is in part informed by my religious beliefs.


Pretty much


see above


Yes

I'd love to

Yes

Yes


But so what?

This is one of the things that I don't think I'll fully figure out, Stephen. I'd never be able to call someone like you a non-Muslim after what you said above. You self-identify as one, perform Salat, fast, pay Zakat, and most of all, believe in the Shahada, Yet there are Muslims who won't think twice about throwing around labels such as 'kaffir' because they disagree with some practices you (general 'you') do or some stances you take.

I was never able to do that... not now or before. That was also one of the reasons that caused me to be called 'kaffir' myself, ironically. :slap:

 

[beenie]

i did not mean you tried to represent qura'nists, but you made the statement about them that they will say 'no' if asked if they follow hadiths to get methods for their salats. You should not say things about which you are unsure of.

I'm sure that all the Quranists I have spoken with do not accept Hadith.

I can't post the forum here because it would violate Rule 9, but if you google Qur'an only forum, you'll see a few. Browse them and tell me if they accept Hadith. . There is also a Qur'anist DIR on this very forum; read through it and then tell me if I misrepresented them.

 

[beenie]

Why are you so personal? Why do you have problems with my views? I find the Hadiths very useful i and did not condemn your beliefs or opinions even if they seem so radical in my eyes.


What are you talking about? I simply made the point that i am not surprised and it is indeed hard to understand what you belief in or not.

I'm vague on purpose. . F0uad, let's call a truce here; you and I don't see eye-to-eye, because I have a different outlook than you on many issues.

I wasn't even talking about you but about myself...

Maybe you should take a break?

You said that anyone who rejects Hadith rejects history in your eyes and I simply said, that's in your eyes.

I don't need a break, I'm good.

 

[F0uad]

I'm vague on purpose. . F0uad, let's call a truce here; you and I don't see eye-to-eye, because I have a different outlook than you on many issues.

Hahaha on purpose?
Well i think we don't see eye to eye on the smaller teachings but as in a whole i honestly belief we do.

You said that anyone who rejects Hadith rejects history in your eyes and I simply said, that's in your eyes.

I don't need a break, I'm good.

Yes but that doesn't mean i condemn the other person or simply call him a kaffir when he or she sees things differently.

If people actually read Hadiths and took some lessons in the History of Islam they would know that diversity always existed and was accepted that's also when Islam flourished a great example is the Shia's and Sunni's.