Islamofascism?

[Deidre]

Muslims make up less than 25% of the world.

What would we think if republicans made up less than 25% of the world yet nearly all the civil wars in the 21st century, 90+ percent of terrorist acts against civilians, almost all suicide bombers, the majority of regimes which sanction taking sex-slaves based on Religious beliefs, the greatest misogynistic policies that outlaw countless millions of women getting an education and driving a friggin car, worst antisemitism by far, majority of bullying and legal killings of adulterers and homosexuals, and nearly all oppressive dark-aged Theocracies that outlaw and imprison people for decades or kill and mutilate them for protesting and speaking truth???

And involvement in over 90% of armed conflicts of the 21st century??

All liberals would take a stand against republicans and declare, "they are a grave threat to the liberties we cherish. Republicans are intrinsically prone to violence and tyranny!"

Yet Liberals like Obama and many public speakers and politicians defend it and say, "we shouldn't call them Islamic terrorists. They hijacked a peaceful Religion"!

That is like saying, "Nazis aren't Fascist. They hijacked a peaceful form of government!"

You see the double-standards!

The Qur'an and Hadiths prove Obama wrong! Muhammad was an extremist terrorist!

Liberals defend it while pointing the finger constantly at Trump. Trump does and says idiotic things I know.

But Trump is a cuddly Teddy bear compared to Muhammad. And liberals defend him!

Total hypocrisy, and disrespectful to the millions of victims of 21st century fascism!

I hate to tell you, but the US itself has a very dark past. Built on ''Christian principles'' were Presidents who owned slaves, and thought it was fine. Women didn't have the right to vote for decades, and native Americans were slaughtered. Islam had nothing to do with it. Thousands of underage boys have been molested by Catholic priests and the cover up in the RCC went all the way to the Pope during those time periods. And they muttered religious nonsense in hopes that it would justify why they covered up sex crimes against kids.

My opinion of Muhammad is that he was defending the faith and against people who were trying to kill him. I'm not a fan of Muhammad nor am I an Islam apologist, but there are a lot of wars that have been created by non-Muslims.

 

[Spiderman]

Have no illusions @PopeADope ... if I chose to I could easily eviscerate your position. .

The difference between you and I, is I'm not making claims that I can't back up with facts or substantial evidence!

You make an empty claim, but provide no proof or evidence to support them!

Interesting, no one has provided any evidence to show that a single one of my claims are falsehoods! Quite pathetic!

 

[QuestioningMind]

No, I pointed out the peaceful Muslims. You lie, I don't paint all or must Muslims like that! They still defend those verses and say the Qur'an is without error, and the prophet Muhammad didn't make mistakes! I have known Christians who look at verses in the Bible and say, "that is stupid, outdated, and ****ed up!"

I have never seen a Muslim online or offline do that!

You clearly need to expand the number of Muslims that you interact with. I had a Muslim roommate for nearly two years and he OFTEN pointed to things in the Koran and said: That is stupid, outdated, and fcked up! I suspect that the Muslims you talk with do the EXACT same thing that many Christians do. They claim that the bible IS the infallible Word of God, but those disgusting verses are just 'taken out of context' or 'are not supposed to be taken literally' or 'they make sense if viewed from an historical perspective'.

 

[Deidre]

Theses ancient texts were written at very different, nearly barbaric time periods. The Pharisees crucified Jesus...they weren't Muslim. Barbarism isn't exclusively found in Islam. The barbaric terrorist acts that we see today in the middle east, are from just that, terrorists. If anyone were to follow the Bible to the letter, he/she would also be required to do some barbaric things, as well. I don't think religions really cause people to become psychopaths, people who are psychopaths simply use religion as their scapegoat for why they are the way they are.

Look at the Mormon Fundamentalist compounds that have been raided in the past few years, the ''prophets'' were sexually assaulting kids, and women, and they claimed it was all part of their religion. No rational person, of any religion, buys into that. There are irrational and rational types who are religious, and Islam has its fair share.

Not to cast stones against the RCC, but you seem to consider the Catholic Church to be this meek little lamb, who is simply doing its part of bring everyone to sainthood. lol It's a corrupt cult, and that should sicken you, too.

 

[Spiderman]

I hate to tell you, but the US itself has a very dark past. Built on ''Christian principles'' were Presidents who owned slaves, and thought it was fine. Women didn't have the right to vote for decades, and native Americans were slaughtered. Islam had nothing to do with it. Thousands of underage boys have been molested by Catholic priests and the cover up in the RCC went all the way to the Pope during those time periods. And they muttered religious nonsense in hopes that it would justify why they covered up sex crimes against kids.

My opinion of Muhammad is that he was defending the faith and against people who were trying to kill him. I'm not a fan of Muhammad nor am I an Islam apologist, but there are a lot of wars that have been created by non-Muslims.

US has a disgusting past. I'm more concerned about people oppressed by Fascism, unable to speak the truth, enslaved, mutilated, raped, and killed in 2018.

In 2017 I had a broken pelvis, a broken back in two places, broken ribs, concussion, knee-fracture broken arm, two torn meniscuses, a torn ACL, arthritis, and couldn't urinate with a urethra clogged with scar tissue! But the agony is mainly over now. I don't care about past suffering! I care about the here and now! Likewise, I'm lessed concerned about previous centuries! Once suffering is over it's over.

Catholic priests are not more likely than men of other professions to be pedophiles. Roughly 1% to 2% of Catholic priests are pedophiles! The Catholic Church has done thoroughly disgusting scandals though!

So has America and Europe caused enormous agony in our world!

And the Bible is a stupid book!

However, there have been Muslim regimes and governments in the 21st century, sometimes governing entire nations that take prepubescent girls who are non-muslim and sell them as sex-slaves. Women publicly stoned to death, children killed for watching soccer, an entire gender denied basic liberties!

Sure! Cristianity is stupid! I'm just not seeing them do that large scale legally!

 

[Spiderman]

You clearly need to expand the number of Muslims that you interact with. I had a Muslim roommate for nearly two years and he OFTEN pointed to things in the Koran and said: That is stupid, outdated, and fcked up! I suspect that the Muslims you talk with do the EXACT same thing that many Christians do. They claim that the bible IS the infallible Word of God, but those disgusting verses are just 'taken out of context' or 'are not supposed to be taken literally' or 'they make sense if viewed from an historical perspective'.

Any Christian who acts out the stupidity in much of the Bible is a vile creature!

It seems Jesus didn't preach any such thing. Yet some of the new testament is ugly as well!

I'm glad you met a Muslim who renounces that psychotic crap. I never have!

 

[Spiderman]

Feel free to demonstrate how you got from point A to point B. Good luck.

Way to show up at this thread and refute nothing!

I'm only for love, compassion, equality, and freedom.

We should love Muslims as well as the Fascists!

We just don't have to love the behavior of some of them or the founder!

 

[Spiderman]

Christofascism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christofascism

Judeofascism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_Maximalism

May I ask what evidence there is that these two forms of Fascism are currently robbing countless millions of people of basic liberties?

Have either of these groups legalized the stoning of adulterers, killing of homosexuals and blasphemers, or legalized sex-slavery of adherents to other beliefs in 2018?

 

[YmirGF]

The difference between you and I, is I'm not making claims that I can't back up with facts or substantial evidence!

You make an empty claim, but provide no proof or evidence to support them!

Interesting, no one has provided any evidence to show that a single one of my claims are falsehoods! Quite pathetic!

A valiant attempt, admittedly, but I will resist your bait to ravish your unwise thinking.

 

[Revoltingest]

The definition of fascism from wikipedia:


I would say that countries like SA, and Iran and Iraq under Hussein, and other Muslim majority countries, share many characteristics of previous fascist regimes, so it's a comparison with some merit.

And of course that doesn't mean that only Muslim majority countries have this characteristic, I would guess that a lot of non-Muslim Majority countries in the third world might also be rightly compared to fascism.

Aye, what I see being missed by many is that "Islamofascism" doesn't
refer to all of Islam, but rather to some movements within it. Fascism,
when occuring in a theocratic country has its own flavor, differing from
other fascist regimes. I expect that a great many Muslims would oppose
Islamofascism, so it is not inherent to Islam.

 

[Sir Doom]

Way to show up at my thread and refute nothing!

This is not your thread. You responded to me with nothing related to my comment. I responded with the truth. I don't care what you think about anything.

I'm only for love, compassion, equality, and freedom.

I don't care what you are for or against. It has no bearing on my comment.

We should love Muslims as well as the Fascists!

I don't care who you think I should or should not love. It has no bearing on my comment.

We just don't have to love the behavior of some of them or the founder!

I don't care what you think I should or should not love. It has no bearing on my comment.

Please understand, your opinion is simply irrelevant to me. I do not care what you think about any subject at all.

 

[Spiderman]

A valiant attempt, admittedly, but I will resist your bait to ravish your unwise thinking.

Clever! I don't want to make enemies with someone i admire so ill stop!

@Deidre
I've always loved Islam, but Islam turned me down, and is playing hard to get!

In all seriousness, i practiced Islam at different times in my life. I like to pray at a mosque more than I like going to Church.

The mosque i prayed at was a beautiful building with a dome, a cool crescent, and cool Arabic everywhere!

But I found out the beautiful mosque was only for men.

Women prayed at an ugly dilapidated brick building.

It makes me wonder, how many of those beautiful mosques in the middle East and elsewhere, only allow men to enter?

Do you find that acceptable?

The Muslim who taught me and answered my questions about cutting off heads and hands (which he supported) didn't even let his wife drive in America.

But I do love most of Islam.

Praying five times a day prostrate on your face, surrendering to God, fasting during Ramadan, pilgrimage to Mecca, dressing like a nun or monk, avoiding pork and alcohol, wearing a kufi, that's all beautiful and admirable!

I also love Arabic! Its the most awesome looking language ever!

So, that's what Islam is about theoretically! So, in theory, i love Islam!

What I hate is Fascist government and outlawing free-speech and other liberties!

That's what I've been trying to explain to @Sir Doom and others.

Im not a hateful bigot! I respect any belief that doesn't rob others of liberty and justice!

 

[QuestioningMind]

Any Christian who acts out the stupidity in much of the Bible is a vile creature!

It seems Jesus didn't preach any such thing. Yet some of the new testament is ugly as well!

I'm glad you met a Muslim who renounces that psychotic crap. I never have!

Yes, but MOST Christians do not act out the stupidity in the bible. And MOST Muslims do not act out the stupidity in the Koran.

The problem is that just because YOU haven't met a Muslim who denounces the atrocities in the Koran doesn't mean that they don't exist. That would be like me claiming that ALL Christians are vile creatures because SOME of them act out of the stupidity in the bible. The fact is that the vast majority of Muslims who moved to the US of A did so BECAUSE they wanted to escape the violence and mistreatment of women and minority groups.

 

[Spiderman]

This is not your thread. You responded to me with nothing related to my comment. I responded with the truth. I don't care what you think about anything.



I don't care what you are for or against. It has no bearing on my comment.



I don't care who you think I should or should not love. It has no bearing on my comment.



I don't care what you think I should or should not love. It has no bearing on my comment.

Please understand, your opinion is simply irrelevant to me. I do not care what you think about any subject at all.

Fair enough!

Thanks, i thought I was responding to you on the thread we argued at before for pages so i said "my thread".

Hey, you actually corrected me where i was wrong and i always admit a mistake and appreciate correction when I recognize it! That's actually cool that you finally proved me wrong on something! Way to go!

Do I strike you as a hateful person who wants bad things to happen to Muslims or anyone?

 

[Spiderman]

Yes, but MOST Christians do not act out the stupidity in the bible. And MOST Muslims do not act out the stupidity in the Koran.

The problem is that just because YOU haven't met a Muslim who denounces the atrocities in the Koran doesn't mean that they don't exist. That would be like me claiming that ALL Christians are vile creatures because SOME of them act out of the stupidity in the bible. The fact is that the vast majority of Muslims who moved to the US of A did so BECAUSE they wanted to escape the violence and mistreatment of women and minority groups.

Thats great that they exist! I was certain they did, but was discouraged that i never met one on RF or in real life!

 

[Sir Doom]

Fair enough!

I don't care what you think is fair or not.

Thanks, i thought I was responding to you on the thread we argued at before for pages so i said "my thread".

I don't care why you make any mistakes you make.

Hey, you actually corrected me where i was wrong and i always admit a mistake and appreciate correction when I recognize it! That's actually cool that you finally proved me wrong on something! Way to go!

I don't care how you deal with being wrong. Your praise means nothing to me.

Do I strike you as a hateful person who wants bad things to happen to Muslims or anyone?

You strike me as irrelevant. Read into that whatever you like.

 

[Spiderman]

This term was created to allow the media to say what they think without offending someone. The speaker can safely say, "I don't mean ALL Muslims." And the listener can say, "Well, they don't mean me."

Do you know what Fascism is?

Pew surveys show the majority of Muslims from Muslim-majority countries are anti-Semetic (by semetic I'm speaking in the context of Jewish)! Mussolini's "Doctrine of Fascism" was very spiritual, worked with the Pope, defended Abrahamic Monotheism, kept prayer in schools, outlawed free-speech, made profanity and blasphemy a public crime, crushed liberalism, crushed secularism, pretty sure he outlawed abortion, voiced his disapproval of contraceptives, said women should stay home and care for kids rather than work, disapproved of divorce, closed down wine shops, night clubs, pornography, and places of immorality! I'm guessing he had a forced dressed code for women as well!

My point being, Fascist Italy was a religious Theocracy that resembled Saudi-Arabia in many ways. It contained harsh Religious laws, oppression of free-speech, attacks against secularism, misogyny, attacks against liberalism, anti-Semitism, persecution of homosexuals, bigotry, hate, and bullying of opponents.

"The recompense of those who fight Allah and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from alternate sides or that they be banished from the land; that is their disgrace in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great torment." (Qur'an 5:33)


But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. [Quran Verses 22:19-22]

Here is the problem. There is no way to justify or explain any "proper context" of those psychopathic gruesome calls to torture. To do so would be like Donald Trump saying, "Hillary Clinton shall be doused in boiling water, burned with fire, flesh pierced with hooked rods of iron, hands and feet cut off, and other great torments....but what I really meant was, I'm all about love and peace, baby!"

That is essentially what the Qur'an is like. It is many calls to violence, hatred for Jews, and repeated calls to commit violence, torture, mutilate, humiliate, and kill those who reject Allah and his messenger, then Muhammad saying "I'm all about love, mercy, and peace!"

But liberals like Obama defend this by saying, "we shouldn't call them Islamic terrorists, they aren't Islamic, they hijacked a peaceful Religion", and much of America believes him!

Muhammad was a terrorist, polygamist, pedophile, psychopathic mass-murderer, bigot, and military Dictator, and the Qur'an and Hadiths prove this to be true!

I have seen Pew survey find all Muslim-majority nations polled have a negative opinion of Jews and most violent attacks on Jews in Western Europe comes from people of Arab/Muslim heritage. Fascist Italy had the same view towards Jews. Let's not pretend this wasn't behind all Arabs ganging up on Israel in the six day war, the Yom Kippur war, the Lebanon civil war, and the incessant war between Israelis (Jews) and Arabs (Muslims), which consists of incessant anti-Semitic (anti-Jewish) propaganda and hate that resembles Nazi Germany.

I appreciate you Sir Doom, I really do! I'm the bad guy because I'm being so politically incorrect, and no one, including Donald Trump points these things out, because it appears to be hate-speech! You're the good guy for going with the herd! It is with a heavy heart that I say all this stuff because I like all of the Muslims here better than the average Christian, and like most that I meet in real life!

I know you don't care what I think Sir Doom, my noble adversary, just please prove me wrong with facts and evidence, rather than middle-school-like personal attacks and I'll accept correction! Don't you get it Sir Doom?! I want to be proven wrong! I'm begging for it, and no one is doing it! The Muslims on RF and the Muslims I met in real life defend Fascism, misogyny, and barbaric policies! I want to believe that most Muslims reject and renounce that!

I know you don't care, but I want what's best for you and all creatures! Including Muslims!

 

[Spiderman]

Aye, what I see being missed by many is that "Islamofascism" doesn't
refer to all of Islam, but rather to some movements within it. Fascism,
when occuring in a theocratic country has its own flavor, differing from
other fascist regimes. I expect that a great many Muslims would oppose
Islamofascism, so it is not inherent to Islam.

Could you please read the post above this one, and you will see how many muslim-majority countries resemble Mussolini's Fascist Italy! You will also see Fascism in the Qur'an! Also, most Muslims are hopefully not sympathizers for Fascist government! There is no way of knowing how many Muslims would prefer to see the world governed by Islamic Theocracy like Saudi-Arabia, the Islamic capitol and holiest sight of pilgrimage (which just recently allowed an entire gender to drive)!

I'm assuming most Muslims sympathize with such a dark-aged Theocracy, because every Muslim I talked to about it in real life defended it, and I have never met a Muslim on RF or elsewhere online who said, "No, that is absolutely wrong!"

Thing is, even if I got unlucky, and most Muslims don't want an intolerant, dark-aged, fascist Theocracy, that doesn't change the fact that Muhammad and the first Muslims wiped out Meccan and Medina Idolaters (and unbelievers like yourself), destroyed the shrines and Idols the Polytheists cherished, and established an intolerant, dark-aged, fascist Theocracy! So, the Muslims in favor of those policies and behaviors, are in fact the ones who imitate Muhammad, who is considered "The messenger of Allah, the most perfect Muslim!"

The peaceful Muslims do not imitate "the messenger of Allah!"

 

[Spiderman]

I think it's a buzzword for Islamic tyranny; specifically of the kind where the more regressive Islamic beliefs are forced or pressured onto non-Muslims (e.g. don't draw Muhammad or we'll murder you).

Do you have anything else to say to further explain that?

Muslims rioted throughout the globe, sacked embassies, and killed people over a stupid cartoon! Yet they don't have global riots over the mass-rapes, mass-killings, stoning of adulterers, killing of homosexuals, oppression of an entire gender, and mass-oppression of free-speech! So, no global rioting over those crimes against humanity, but global rioting and bloodshed over a cartoon?? Really??? Is this what we've become!

 

[Revoltingest]

Could you please read the post above this one, and you will see how many muslim-majority countries resemble Mussolini's Fascist Italy! You will also see Fascism in the Qur'an! Also, most Muslims are hopefully not sympathizers for Fascist government! There is no way of knowing how many Muslims would prefer to see the world governed by Islamic Theocracy like Saudi-Arabia, the Islamic capitol and holiest sight of pilgrimage (which just recently allowed an entire gender to drive)!

I'm assuming most Muslims sympathize with such a dark-aged Theocracy, because every Muslim I talked to about it in real life defended it, and I have never met a Muslim on RF or elsewhere online who said, "No, that is absolutely wrong!"

Thing is, even if I got unlucky, and most Muslims don't want an intolerant, dark-aged, fascist Theocracy, that doesn't change the fact that Muhammad and the first Muslims wiped out Meccan and Medina Idolaters (and unbelievers like yourself), destroyed the shrines and Idols the Polytheists cherished, and established an intolerant, dark-aged, fascist Theocracy! So, the Muslims in favor of those policies and behaviors, are in fact the ones who imitate Muhammad, who is considered "The messenger of Allah, the most perfect Muslim!"

The peaceful Muslims do not imitate "the messenger of Allah!"

I intentionally avoided addressing how Islam has a vulnerability to adherents embracing
fascism. But it's important to note that there are anti-fascist movements within Islam.
Ref...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_and_progressivism_within_Islam