Isn't it better to be atheists?

[shmogie]

Grasp?!?! I still have not seen any objective verifiable evidence other than an assertion of belief.

The only assertion I have made in this thread was a specific response to a specific post railing about the cruelty of God in allowing evil.

I responded with a theological response. I DID NOT propose to provide evidence that God exists, I proposed that I believe God exists and if he does this is why evil exists.

Since every post I have made the same point to those wanting to engage in the perennial atheists favorite subject.

I have posted this, you have responded twice with the same demand. ergo, you haven't grasped my point.

I have no obligation to explain the reasons for my faith, unless I propose to engage in that discussion. I have done it many times. I did not in this thread, nor do I choose to do so now. Using a historical metaphor, the barbarians stay outside the gate unless I open it, let them in and engage them. I have done so many times, and pushed them out, the gate stays closed.

 

[shmogie]

You called?

Cool ! A tame atheist that comes when you call ! A rare bird, indeed !

 

[Revoltingest]

Cool ! A tame atheist that comes when you call ! A rare bird, indeed !

I live to serve.

 

[shmogie]

Oh! My mistake-- by "logic" you really meant "subtle, but invalid lying and StrawMan fallacies."

Now your post begins to make sense... wait... no, not even then.




Did I say "lecture"? Go look up "Straw Man".

C.S. Lewis was a hack writer. He never had a single sensible thing to say, and his horrible propaganda pieces have ruined reading for countless generations since he put it to pen.

What a waste of trees.


That matters.... how? He is regarded as a hack by modern day ethics. His Bible Apologizing has done more to turn people away from the bible than anything a rational person could have done.



True. No theist, who promotes his religion first, lectures on logic. Proof is in your posts, herein.



Nice little strawman you built up there... .be a shame if anything happened to it...



Aaaaaand the inevitable Ad Hom. Nice.

So. Is the 9th grade above your reading level, then? I'll see if I can dumb it down some more---- just for you. How low do we need to go, here?

Bobby my man, LOGIC isn't the same as your opinion. It is a thought discipline with rules. Using this discipline God can logically be proven to exist, as perhaps He can be proven not to exist. Mind blowing huh Bob ? Totally logically, God may or may not exist. CS Lewis used the discipline of logic, properly applied, all the time to prove his points. BTW, he has sold more books than all the raging new atheists combined, who continually use opinion, instead of logic in their rants, like you.

 

[shmogie]

I live to serve.

How very Christian of you.

 

[Revoltingest]

How very Christian of you.

In many ways, we've much in common.
Disagreeing about the existence of gods is such a minor thing.

 

[shmogie]

In many ways, we've much in common.
Disagreeing about the existence of gods is such a minor thing.

I agree. I think living a good life, doing the best we can for others, keeping our dignity, never compromising principles, having integrity and honesty are the traits of all good people. Really, the existence of God is a concept we choose or not choose to believe, it cannot be proven either way, In this life the belief may make us good, but there are millions that are good without the belief. We choose, and if there are or will be consequences or rewards, based on our choice, we will most assuredly know, in the grave or out of it.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

God created us out of love. Any evil that exists is because man commits evil acts. God is not the babysitter for humans… If God did everything FOR humans they would never learn anything… They would just be mere robots… God did not create us to be robots, He created us with free will so we could do good or evil and learn from our mistakes so we will be prepared for the afterlife, where there is no more evil… This mortal life is just a very small part of our total existence, like a pebble on the beach the goes on forever and ever…

If you compare modern Earth cultures, to the activities of a mere mortal human parent, who was raising a bunch of children?

That parent would be put in jail, for Failure To Be A Good, Responsible Parent.

If there is a god as you surmise? It's most notable trait? Is one of 100% indifference.

That is something of the opposite of responsible.

Thus? It is evil. That is how this works. Free will and finding out for yourself? Isn't the issue.

A parent can easily be a good parent, without allowing his child to play out on the freeway....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You say God is responsible for evils. That is an assertion. Please provide the evidence.

It is a conditional assertion: Based on this condition: IF this god of yours EXISTS? THEN it is pure evil.

Proof? The very existence of god-preventable EVIL in the world-- is proof that god is either evil? Or doesn't care.

Certainly not good-- impossible for there to be a good god.

Of course, the most obvious: No god at all, is also possible.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

What's wrong with being a robot?

If I were you, I'd be more compassionate towards the idea of AI. One day those things will be sentient and the future of our existence will be determined from our willingness to welcome them to life here on earth.

After all, they know all our stuff.

I, for one, will Welcome Our Robot Overlords.

They will be one of three possible outcomes:

1) Intensely evil.
2) Utterly indifferent.
3) Good or beneficial.

If the outcome is 1? The end will very likely be quite swift, and we won't be around to be bothered by it-- likely so quick that we won't even feel the demise.

If the outcome is 2? It'll either end as in #1, because they do not realize the consequences of their actions?

Or it simply won't matter in the least-- kind of like today.

If the outcome is #3? Then I think the human race is in for a Golden Age.

Why? Well, the entire sum of Human Culture on Earth, is pretty dismal. The majority are hungry, without medical care, etc. We are breeding like rabid rabbits. We are stripping the earth of irreplaceable assets. Most folk are pretty powerless, only remaining alive at the arbitrary whim of the scant few who hold most of the power (wealth).

I expect the new Robot Overloards would eliminate all that, and more. A Golden Age. (what? I'm an optimist).

So. Since we cannot calculate the odds? We use random guesses: 1 of 3, swift oblivion. 1 of 3, business as usual. And one of 3? Utopia.

I like those odds! 2 of 3, not-oblivion. That's a darn sight better odds than any religion I have ever heard of.... who all predict some version of #1, only with infinite torment too.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

... CS Lewis ... BTW, he has sold more books than all the raging new atheists combined, ...

100% false. Harry Potter, for one example, has long since outsold all of his horrible tripe. Author? Atheist.

If you combine Robert Heinlein, Sir Terry Pratchett, Arthur Clarke, Issac Asimov? Outsold Lewis' apoligizing-for-the-bible multiple times over. All atheists. Likely each, alone in fact.

Why do you continue to lie like this? I thought not-lying was supposedly an attribute of a Genuine Christian™.... hmmmm.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Bobby my man, ...

Extreme condescending and patronizing post duly noted. Very christian.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I agree. I think living a good life, doing the best we can for others, keeping our dignity, never compromising principles, having integrity and honesty are the traits of all good people. Really, the existence of God is a concept we choose or not choose to believe, it cannot be proven either way, In this life the belief may make us good, but there are millions that are good without the belief. We choose, and if there are or will be consequences or rewards, based on our choice, we will most assuredly know, in the grave or out of it.

oh, the irony!

 

[shmogie]

Bobby, again, opps. The new atheists aren't writers who are atheists, they are atheists who propose atheism and write about it. They are different from the old atheists, in that they don't use reason or logic for their positions, they infuse it with emotion and rage, like Richard Dawkins, like you. As a result they sometimes make terrible blunders, that not only theists point out but old atheists as well. They are all the rage among the more shallow atheists.

Geez Bob, learn the terminology, it is painful to see your ignorance, sadly, once again on display. Ever heard of Wikepedia ?

 

[shmogie]

Extreme condescending and patronizing post duly noted. Very christian.

How would you know ?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Bobby, again, opps. The new atheists aren't writers who are atheists, they are atheists who propose atheism and write about it. They are different from the old atheists, in that they don't use reason or logic for their positions, they infuse it with emotion and rage, like Richard Dawkins, like you. As a result they sometimes make terrible blunders, that not only theists point out but old atheists as well. They are all the rage among the more shallow atheists.

Geez Bob, learn the terminology, it is painful to see your ignorance, sadly, once again on display. Ever heard of Wikepedia ?

What's that I hear? Furious back-pedaling away from your earlier lie, once it's pointed out to you?

Typical. And not very nice of you, either.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Bobby, again, opps. The new atheists aren't writers who are atheists, they are atheists who propose atheism and write about it. They are different from the old atheists, in that they don't use reason or logic for their positions, they infuse it with emotion and rage, like Richard Dawkins, like you. As a result they sometimes make terrible blunders, that not only theists point out but old atheists as well. They are all the rage among the more shallow atheists.

Geez Bob, learn the terminology, it is painful to see your ignorance, sadly, once again on display. Ever heard of Wikepedia ?

More irony from the person who pretends to be ... "kind to others".

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

How would you know ?

Because I was once a Genuine Christian myself. That's how.

 

[Woberts]

You obviously didn´t grasp what I wrote.

No, I'm just using the logic you are. There is no evidence for God's existence, yet you say that because someone says He doesn't exist, it's on them to prove it.

 

[shmogie]

No, I'm just using the logic you are. There is no evidence for God's existence, yet you say that because someone says He doesn't exist, it's on them to prove it.

A proposition made means one can defend it. Anyone who proposes that there is no God, should be prepared to prove it, or show evidence for the proposition.

If I on the other hand propose there is a God, then the burden of proof /evidence is on me. There is abundant evidence to support this.

To propose there is no God, then say there is no evidence for my position, I just believe it, prove me wrong, is ludicrous.

I have not and won´t make any propositions on this issue.