Isn't it better to be atheists?

[shmogie]

Because I was once a Genuine Christian myself. That's how.

Your loss

 

[shmogie]

More irony from the person who pretends to be ... "kind to others".

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[shmogie]

What's that I hear? Furious back-pedaling away from your earlier lie, once it's pointed out to you?

Typical. And not very nice of you, either.

Bob, you are pitiful. Everyone, but you, knows who the new atheists are. Using your style, you are a liar in trying to foist off Harry Potter as a work of a prominent author in the new style in proposing atheism. Give it up Bob

 

[Unveiled Artist]

A proposition made means one can defend it. Anyone who proposes that there is no God, should be prepared to prove it, or show evidence for the proposition.

If I on the other hand propose there is a God, then the burden of proof /evidence is on me. There is abundant evidence to support this.

To propose there is no God, then say there is no evidence for my position, I just believe it, prove me wrong, is ludicrous.

I have not and won´t make any propositions on this issue.

Thats silly. Its more...

God does not exist. No god. How do I proove god exists when there is no god to begin with?

You said he does, you explain how. I cant explain because god never existed to begin with. The burden is on you.

This is any subject. Does not need to be religious. If I said I am holding a pencil in my hand now and you cant see it, should you have to proove I have none in my hand, or does it make more since that I proove its there first?

Are you able to answer the questions? Its logic not religious.

Edit.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: I have no idea what God does in between sending Messengers.

Between Revelations there is personal revelation through prayer and sincere contemplation of the Divine.

That is true, but that does not answer the question of what God is doing...

 

[shunyadragon]

Thats silly. Its more...

God does not exist. No god. How do I proove god exists when there is no god to begin with?

You said he does, you explain how. I cant explain because god never existed to begin with. The burden is on you.

This is any subject. Does not need to be religious. If I said I am holding a pencil in my hand now and you cant see it, should you have to proove I have none in my hand, or does it make more since that I proove its there first?

Are you able to answer the questions? Its logic not religious.

Edit.

This gets to be a bizarro Silly discussion with atheists declaring absolutely there are no God(s), and Theists asserting there is a God, and it goes nowhere. Both sides represents a philosophical/theological assertion without objective verifiable evidence, nor any sort of conclusive proof, nor any logical argument without 'begging the question.'

 

[shunyadragon]

That is true, but that does not answer the question of what God is doing...

In human terms God is not known to do anything. The Baha'i view is that God is an apophatic God and in a fundamental way unknown to human knowledge. We know the attributes of God, and the guidance of an ever advancing spiritual civilization through Revelation.

 

[shmogie]

Thats silly. Its more...

God does not exist. No god. How do I proove god exists when there is no god to begin with?

You said he does, you explain how. I cant explain because god never existed to begin with. The burden is on you.

This is any subject. Does not need to be religious. If I said I am holding a pencil in my hand now and you cant see it, should you have to proove I have none in my hand, or does it make more since that I proove its there first?

Are you able to answer the questions? Its logic not religious.

Edit.

No, if you say no God exists, there must be reasons why you believe that. It's called evidence.

Example; I can see everything, I cannot see God, therefore, there is no God. An illogical logic syllogism.

Feel free to prove away

 

[shmogie]

This gets to be a bizarro Silly discussion with atheists declaring absolutely there are no God(s), and Theists asserting there is a God, and it goes nowhere. Both sides represents a philosophical/theological assertion without objective verifiable evidence, nor any sort of conclusive proof, nor any logical argument without 'begging the question.'

There are logical assertions, i.e. evidence, for both sides. Logic is a discipline with rules that allows one to test propositions, again, not to be confused with, "my opinion is logical".

 

[Trailblazer]

In human terms God is not known to do anything. The Baha'i view is that God is an apophatic God and in a fundamental way unknown to human knowledge. We know the attributes of God, and the guidance of an ever advancing spiritual civilization through Revelation.

I understand what you mean, but it is difficult for us humans to think in terms of a Almighty Being who does not do anything. Even as a Baha'i I would like to know what God is doing even though I know I can never know... It is a human frailty.

I do not want God's itinerary, just a general idea of what God does, besides sending and speaking to Messengers every so often...

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Better how?

Much of my life I've lived as an agnostic. The actual problem I had was not the sense of some mean deity acting like a dictator (I now believe any god who is like that is not worthy of being called God), it was the sense that I had few friends outside my household, since we constantly moved, so if my family died I would have the sense that they were well and truly gone. And then some time after, I would be gone, and there would be no point.

How is that better than simply believing there may or may not be a conventionally Jewish deity, but there is some kind of life after all of this where we don't have to worry about people we care about dying?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, if you say no God exists, there must be reasons why you believe that. It's called evidence.

Example; I can see everything, I cannot see God, therefore, there is no God. An illogical logic syllogism.

Feel free to prove away

Im not one to talk rude. Follow me here:

1. I have a pencil in my hand right now (the claim)

2. You do, where? I cannot see it. Can you show me? (Inquring for more info)

1. I cant show you. You are supposed to know. (Counterclaim)

2. Okay What does this pencil look like? (Asking again for more info)

1. I wont answer your questions. (Then you dont have a pencil??)

2. But you made the claim a pencil exist. Why should I believe you do without you explaining your statement

1. . Since you said I dont have a pencil, its your job to prove I dont

That is silly.

A. Its your pencil
B. You made the claim
C its in your hand

You got the burden. I dont.

Do you understand the type of logic in this convo?

Also, I cannot prove god does not exist. He does not exist to begin with.

How do you prove god does not exist when he does not to begin with?​

Unless you can give reason he does THEN I can prove he doesnt. Until then the question is silly if you take time to think of the logic behind it.

 

[Trailblazer]

but there is some kind of life after all of this where we don't have to worry about people we care about dying?

I know there is a life after death but I still worry about people I love dying, not as much as I would if there was no life after death though. I know I will see them again but I just don't know how I will recognize them.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you compare modern Earth cultures, to the activities of a mere mortal human parent, who was raising a bunch of children?

That parent would be put in jail, for Failure To Be A Good, Responsible Parent.

If there is a god as you surmise? It's most notable trait? Is one of 100% indifference.

That is something of the opposite of responsible.

Thus? It is evil. That is how this works. Free will and finding out for yourself? Isn't the issue.

A parent can easily be a good parent, without allowing his child to play out on the freeway....

Let me ask you this...

(a) How do you know that God is indifferent?
(b) How do you know what God is doing/not doing?
(c) What do you expect God to do?

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: You say God is responsible for evils. That is an assertion. Please provide the evidence.

It is a conditional assertion: Based on this condition: IF this god of yours EXISTS? THEN it is pure evil.

Proof? The very existence of god-preventable EVIL in the world-- is proof that god is either evil? Or doesn't care.

Certainly not good-- impossible for there to be a good god.

Of course, the most obvious: No god at all, is also possible.

Let me ask you this....

(a) How would God prevent evil without taking over free will of humans?
(b) Do you want to be under the control of God?

But the 100-dollar question is why God should prevent evil, just because you do not like evil?

 

[Trailblazer]

In many ways, we've much in common.
Disagreeing about the existence of gods is such a minor thing.

Well, it should be minor, since we are all cut from the same cloth...

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."
('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Let me ask you this...

(a) How do you know that God is indifferent?
(b) How do you know what God is doing/not doing?
(c) What do you expect God to do?

Proof? I outlined it already, but here it is again, in bullet points.

The existence of god-preventable evil on Earth, is proof that if god exists, it's #1 quality is it's steadfast refusal to prevent aforementioned evil.

So god is

1) indifferent (uncaring or unaware) (why call it god at all?)
2) malevolent (wants the evil to happen)
3) not existing

A good deity-- like a good parent -- would prevent the evil from happening.

#2 is unlikely, as an evil being would likely make the world far worse than it is-- there is also god-preventable good in the world.

That leaves only #1 and #3.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Bob, you are pitiful. Everyone, but you, knows who the new atheists are. Using your style, you are a liar in trying to foist off Harry Potter as a work of a prominent author in the new style in proposing atheism. Give it up Bob

What's that I smell? Ooooh! What Is Backpedaling for $20, Alex

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Your loss

Indeed. Half my life was wasted on an organized system of abuse that worshiped a book which condones slavery, genocide, infanticide and sanctioned rape.

It was a loss.

But.

I got better.

 

[Trailblazer]

Proof? I outlined it already, but here it is again, in bullet points.

The existence of god-preventable evil on Earth, is proof that if god exists, it's #1 quality is it's steadfast refusal to prevent aforementioned evil.

How would God prevent evil without taking away the free will choices of humans and making them do only good things, like robots programmed only to do good?

Free will is the fly in the ointment. If humans cannot choose to do evil they cannot choose to do good either.... so we are all just reduced to mere robots...

But if humans have a mind and a will they can learn to do only good, and that is the goal of the good God... But it cannot happen unless they read the instruction manual that was written by the Messenger of God... that is the caveat.

“God’s purpose in sending His Prophets unto men is twofold. The first is to liberate the children of men from the darkness of ignorance, and guide them to the light of true understanding. The second is to ensure the peace and tranquillity of mankind, and provide all the means by which they can be established.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 79-80

”Through the Teachings of this Day Star of Truth every man will advance and develop until he attaineth the station at which he can manifest all the potential forces with which his inmost true self hath been endowed. It is for this very purpose that in every age and dispensation the Prophets of God and His chosen Ones have appeared amongst men, and have evinced such power as is born of God and such might as only the Eternal can reveal.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 68

So god is

1) indifferent (uncaring or unaware) (why call it god at all?)
2) malevolent (wants the evil to happen)
3) not existing

A good deity-- like a good parent -- would prevent the evil from happening.

And again I ask why a good deity would do that and how would a deity do that without taking away free will choices? What if the evil serves a good purpose?

#2 is unlikely, as an evil being would likely make the world far worse than it is-- there is also god-preventable good in the world.

That leaves only #1 and #3.

I would say that #3 is the most likely of the three.