Isn't it better to be atheists?

[MangoJuice]

Im not one to talk rude. Follow me here:

1. I have a pencil in my hand right now (the claim)

2. You do, where? I cannot see it. Can you show me? (Inquring for more info)

1. I cant show you. You are supposed to know. (Counterclaim)

2. Okay What does this pencil look like? (Asking again for more info)

1. I wont answer your questions. (Then you dont have a pencil??)

2. But you made the claim a pencil exist. Why should I believe you do without you explaining your statement

1. . Since you said I dont have a pencil, its your job to prove I dont

That is silly.

A. Its your pencil
B. You made the claim
C its in your hand

You got the burden. I dont.

Do you understand the type of logic in this convo?

Also, I cannot prove god does not exist. He does not exist to begin with.

How do you prove god does not exist when he does not to begin with?​

Unless you can give reason he does THEN I can prove he doesnt. Until then the question is silly if you take time to think of the logic behind it.

Not sure what you are getting at here?

Let's try something else

1. Life exists on other planets (the claim)
2. Really, show me. Have you got an alien there in your pocket? (inquiring for more info)
1. I can't show you but there are lots of stars and planets and stuff so life on other planets must exist (Counterclaim)
2. Okay, so what does this life look like (Asking again for more info)
1. I cannot answer your question (Then you don't have proof??)
2. But you made a claim that life exists on other planets, why should I believe you when you cannot produce said life?

I personally think we are alone in the universe and you cannot prove otherwise.
Interestingly, a lot of atheists I have met and know do believe in alien life, not sure how that works.

Oh, and God is spelt with a capital 'G', thanks.

 

[Sunstone]

First, welcome to the Forum, MJ.

Oh, and God is spelt with a capital 'G', thanks.

The generic "god" is not capitalized.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Not sure what you are getting at here?

Let's try something else

1. Life exists on other planets (the claim)
2. Really, show me. Have you got an alien there in your pocket? (inquiring for more info)
1. I can't show you but there are lots of stars and planets and stuff so life on other planets must exist (Counterclaim)
2. Okay, so what does this life look like (Asking again for more info)
1. I cannot answer your question (Then you don't have proof??)
2. But you made a claim that life exists on other planets, why should I believe you when you cannot produce said life?

I personally think we are alone in the universe and you cannot prove otherwise.
Interestingly, a lot of atheists I have met and know do believe in alien life, not sure how that works.

Oh, and God is spelt with a capital 'G', thanks.

Thats pretty much the line of thinking. I dont recognize a personal god, so I havent need to caps it. Jesus is God, yes because jesus is the proper noun and god a noun acting as a pronoun to refer to jesus. Jesus would be in caps. God would not (unless at the beginner of a sentence after a period)

Or its caps when I say Lord Jesus but not caps when I just say lord.

I dont recognize god, why would I caps it?

Also, Im wondering if @shmogie (or however spelled) gets the analogies

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But you made a claim that life exists on other planets, why should I believe you when you cannot produce said life?

Its: why would I believe you when you cannot describe what Im supposed to believe in?

Out on a limb here, give me something to go on instead a claim of an alien's existence. You said there is an alien. We cant say there is or not uless you give more information for us to consider you are telling the truth.

If not, its a belief. Something you feel is true without evidence. That is okay. But if you want me to prove something does not exist from what doesnt in the first place, thats illogical. Cant prove nothing exists from nothing.

Is there any logic in asking an atheist to expain the nonexistance of something he or she has never encountered to begin with?

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, it should be minor, since we are all cut from the same cloth...

"How ignorant therefore the thought that God who created man, educated and nurtured him, surrounded him with all blessings, made the sun and all phenomenal existence for his benefit, bestowed upon him tenderness and kindness, and then did not love him. This is palpable ignorance, for no matter to what religion a man belongs even though he be an atheist or materialist nevertheless God nurtures him, bestows His kindness and sheds upon him His light."
('Abdu'l-Baha, Star of the West, Vol. 8, issue 7, p. 78)

I didn't understand that, but I like the term, "palpable ignorance".
That's me!

 

[shmogie]

Im not one to talk rude. Follow me here:

1. I have a pencil in my hand right now (the claim)

2. You do, where? I cannot see it. Can you show me? (Inquring for more info)

1. I cant show you. You are supposed to know. (Counterclaim)

2. Okay What does this pencil look like? (Asking again for more info)

1. I wont answer your questions. (Then you dont have a pencil??)

2. But you made the claim a pencil exist. Why should I believe you do without you explaining your statement

1. . Since you said I dont have a pencil, its your job to prove I dont

That is silly.

A. Its your pencil
B. You made the claim
C its in your hand

You got the burden. I dont.

Do you understand the type of logic in this convo?

Also, I cannot prove god does not exist. He does not exist to begin with.

How do you prove god does not exist when he does not to begin with?​

Unless you can give reason he does THEN I can prove he doesnt. Until then the question is silly if you take time to think of the logic behind it.

I didn't make the claim he exists. I have no burden to prove anything. I have no interest in debating the issue. I didn't offer to debate the issue. Prove He doesn't exist to your satisfaction, that's fine with me.

 

[shmogie]

Indeed. Half my life was wasted on an organized system of abuse that worshiped a book which condones slavery, genocide, infanticide and sanctioned rape.

It was a loss.

But.

I got better.

Indeed. Half my life was wasted on an organized system of abuse that worshiped a book which condones slavery, genocide, infanticide and sanctioned rape.

It was a loss.

But.

I got better.

I couldn't care less

 

[shmogie]

What's that I smell? Ooooh! What Is Backpedaling for $20, Alex

zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I didn't make the claim he exists. I have no burden to prove anything. I have no interest in debating the issue. I didn't offer to debate the issue. Prove He doesn't exist to your satisfaction, that's fine with me.

If you change your tone it wont sound like a debate where none was intended.

Do you believe god exists?

 

[shmogie]

Indeed. Half my life was wasted on an organized system of abuse that worshiped a book which condones slavery, genocide, infanticide and sanctioned rape.

It was a loss.

But.

I got better.

With all the slamming you and I perform on one another aside, at least for now, I sense that as a Christian, you may have been treated badly, or even worse, experienced a huge personal disaster.

When my high school sweetheart and my first wife died in my arms at 35 after a lingering and extremely painful death from cancer, leaving me with two young daughters, I completely and totally renounced God.

For decades I was a bitter atheist. So I might understand why you left the Church.

I left God, he never left me. Same with you

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, if you say no God exists, there must be reasons why you believe that. It's called evidence.

Its a two way conversation.

I know god does not exist. You would be asking me for evidence of a non existent thing. Its not religious in nature. The question or statement you made is illogical.

It is as if you have your hand open, nothing is in your hand, but you want evidence there is nothing.

Does that make sense to you?​

Do you believe god exists?

I dont know if you are christian. If you are, does jesus address conversations you do with people on this thread?

Are there morals that guide how you speak to strangers?

Edit.

 

[shmogie]

If you change your tone it wont sound like a debate where none was intended.

Do you believe god exists?

Yep !

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yep !

Can you give me an idea of what a god is based on your experience?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

How would God prevent evil without taking away the free will choices of humans and making them do only good things, like robots programmed only to do good?

I can think of at least a dozen ways-- and I'm not a god with All The Knowledge--- EVER.

It appears we have found yet another thing your supposedly "all powerful" god cannot do...

You presume that every action is all good or all evil-- when in fact, the majority of actions are neutral, or only partly good, or even some good with some evil too.

Take surgery: it is evil, because it is literally cutting someone up. But it is good, because in the process, the person gets better, and/or lives longer or is healthier/happier/etc.

Your simplistic approach? Is too simple, which is why you fail.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I couldn't care less

I know. You demonstrate the same total indifference that the god you think is real, demonstrates to everyone on earth.

"God works in mysterious, ineffective and breathtakingly cruel ways." ~ Penn Jillette

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

zzzzzzzzzzzz

and yet.... you continue to respond..... I thought you could not have less caring? (just like your god)

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

With all the slamming you and I perform on one another aside, at least for now, I sense that as a Christian, you may have been treated badly, or even worse, experienced a huge personal disaster.

When my high school sweetheart and my first wife died in my arms at 35 after a lingering and extremely painful death from cancer, leaving me with two young daughters, I completely and totally renounced God.

For decades I was a bitter atheist. So I might understand why you left the Church.

I left God, he never left me. Same with you

Really. Why is it that god only and ever "appears" to people who are desperate, or in great pain, or suffering deep emotional stress?

Why cannot this uncaring and utterly indifferent god of yours-- be reasonable to reasonable people? Does it not know what would be needed for rational folk to believe in it?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

And again I ask why a good deity would do that and how would a deity do that without taking away free will choices? What if the evil serves a good purpose?

I would say that #3 is the most likely of the three.

How would a parent, be a Good Parent to his or her child?

Oh Noes! The Parent won't let the kid go play in traffic! Parent is taking away child's Free Will! Child wants to play in traffic, child needs to play in traffic-- is FUN! Why is Parent being so MEAN?

Parent sadly watches child frolic in traffic right up until the bus smacks the now dead thing into the next county...

Poor, pitiful parent-- if only there was some way to prevent the child from playing in traffic that did not take away it's free will?

 

[shmogie]

Really. Why is it that god only and ever "appears" to people who are desperate, or in great pain, or suffering deep emotional stress?

Why cannot this uncaring and utterly indifferent god of yours-- be reasonable to reasonable people? Does it not know what would be needed for rational folk to believe in it?

you missed the point, again. I should have known

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

you missed the point, again. I should have known

you had a point? I thought you could not possibly care less? Just like the indifferent deity you call "god"....