Orbit
I'm a planet
Sigh. So never mind the humanitarian crisis, we're just concerned that someone blamed it on Israel bombing civilians (which is the actual cause) without mentioning what prompted the bombing? Baffling indeed.
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Israel Declares War After Hamas Attacks
- Thread starter Left Coast
- Start date
Sigh. No one said we should be unconcerned for the humanitarian crisis. But of course your bias shows again, blaming solely Israel for that crisis when Israel is responding to an attack on them and fighting an enemy that intends for a humanitarian crisis to be caused to gin up global outrage against Israel.
That you cannot hold the entire set of causes for this crisis in view, and expect journalists to do the same, while expressing humanitarian concern is indeed baffling.
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
You tell me. What advice would you give that father? I would like to hear it so that I could comfort the October 7 victims in the same way, because I am at a loss as to what you say to the victims of terrorist attacks.
Orbit
I'm a planet
How does who started it matter to those killed, wounded, or unable to evacuate for medical reasons? You are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. You could argue fault all the way back to 1880, and it won't result in any meaningful answer. What matters is that the killing of innocent civilians stops. Nothing, and I mean nothing--no past attacks, no history of victimhood, no hatred or anger-- excuses the continued bombing of civilians.
The leaders of a nation have to consider variables outside the grief and hardship of individuals caught in the crossfire of war. Do you really believe that the actual reasons for a war, or who is fighting on each side of that war, are not morally relevant to the merits of the conflict? I'm trying to think of words that are not disrespectful to convey how....wildly disconnected from reality I find that perspective. Think through what you're saying.
Civilians die in war. In every war of sufficient scale that has ever been fought, certainly in modern history since WWI, civilians have been killed as collateral damage in the fighting. That doesn't mean those injuries and deaths aren't sad. That doesn't mean the loved ones of those killed won't suffer. That doesn't mean civilians should be targeted or killed indiscriminately. That doesn't mean civilian refugees should not receive humanitarian aid and empathy. It does mean that civilian death is an ugly reality of war.
So unless your argument is that no war should ever be fought ever for any reason - which I hope is not your perspective, then we have to arrive at the conclusion that "no civilians can ever be killed" is not a reasonable standard by which to wage warfare. "Everyone should just stop fighting" is a nice ideal, but not a realistic answer to international military conflict. The situation is more complex than that. Allowing literal terrorist organizations to retain political power is a recipe for even more death and suffering than is already happening. We're dealing with a group of terrorists who embed themselves in civilian populations to maximize civilian deaths. What is Israel militarily allowed to do in response to that, in your view?
How is that? That style of rebuttal is completely irresponsible. I do not deny what happened in ww2. In fact, i am quite the opposite, wondering how could such atrocities as ww2 be happening within israel and the creation of the fenced in population of gaza.
Now you use more rubbish of suggesting what HAMAS wants. HAMAS did not create the divide or a religious state condemning palestinians for not accepting the apartheid within their home land.
I understand and have read the HAMAS charter. Its's sad and likewise irresponsible but HAMAS does not represent all palestinians just as israel DOES NOT represent all Jews.
HAMAS are made up of people that have lost everything under the apartheid. Uprooted people from Jerusalem, west bank and throughout israel are what created the rebellious fools that actually believe that they have a right to live in palestine without living under a religious state that does not want them there.
Just as the majority on the earth comprehend, HAMAS did not develop out of peaceful and kindness of an illegal occupation. They are people of palestine, that DO NOT accept the division and forced occupation. It's about like the indigenous of the America's that would rather die than accept being controlled.
First, don't commit war crimes.
Second, don't use indiscriminate bombing.
Third, use on-the-ground precision attacks to minimize civilian deaths.
Simultaneously plan ending the brutal oppression that inspires armed resistance like Hamas.
Orbit
I'm a planet
Ok. Let's put this in perspective. Within the context of an ongoing history, the latest attack that forms the context for this incident involved one heinous attack on one day and 1,400 Israeli deaths. We have now a three week bombing that has resulted in 8,805 Palestinian deaths in Gaza and 130 Palestinian deaths in the West Bank. Read those numbers again.
How many Palestinians do you need to die before Israel stops bombing? 10,000? All of them?
When does war turn into indiscriminate slaughter?
These numbers show the staggering toll of the Israel-Hamas war
The latest Israel-Hamas war has become the deadliest and most destructive in the long history of the bitter enemies.
Ok. Let's put this in perspective. Within the context of an ongoing history, the latest attack that forms the context for this incident involved one heinous attack on one day and 1,400 Israeli deaths. We have now a three week bombing that has resulted in 8,805 Palestinian deaths in Gaza and 130 Palestinian deaths in the West Bank. Read those numbers again.
How many Palestinians do you need to die before Israel stops bombing? 10,000? All of them?
When does war turn into indiscriminate slaughter?
These numbers show the staggering toll of the Israel-Hamas war
The latest Israel-Hamas war has become the deadliest and most destructive in the long history of the bitter enemies.apnews.com
I didn't see an answer to my question, yet you're asking me questions.
You understand that Hamas intentionally plans for Palestinian civilians to be killed in crossfire, yes? Please say yes.
So again, what is Israel allowed to do militarily to ensure Hamas cannot carry out another terrorist attack against them?
We're done.
To imply that I hold such a position is sick, insulting, and baseless defamation.
I would suggest that most religions are.
I believe that Hamas does exactly that. Its Oct 7
attack was designed to provoke an overkill response.
I observe that Israel plays into Hamas's hand by seeing
justification for indiscriminate bombing to intentionally
kill civilians, & dislodge them from Gaza.
See post #307.
If you did not read it, then you have no idea what is biased.
No need to write affirmations to report accounts.
You 'guess' is what is baffling. Zero care for the lives of either but guessing and writting rubbish to sound empathetic to israel (ONE side). As you expect people to condemn HAMAS/Egypt as a precursor to even making yourself read a report. You discount yourself of trying because it mentions Israel in the title.
Palestinians are not born to hate, nor are isarelis born to hate. Both sides learn from their environment and the people teaching them.
Palestinians especially in GAZA are by majority fatherless and have no solid guidance. Israelis have US to teach them, feed them and supply them with weapons. UN personnel are being killed by this divide which is not even a war. Its like shooting fish in a bath tub with the children still in it. , That concentration camp is what israel created, fenced and have controlled for decades by land/air and sea.
If you cannot see both sides with empathy, then you are not even capable of making honest conversation. What you are doing is more anti jewish than using the term concentration camp or apartheid as the jewish are far too honest to lie to themselves or others just to be accepted.
To mention that what israel is doing it wrong is not ANTI jewish. Everyone knows that HAMAS made a stupid mistake, was cruel and inhumane on 10/7.
That is not questionable but the collateral damage that israel is now doing is worse. IF HAMAS was a country, then war can be declared but there is no HAMAS country and the group/terrorist are but a few rogue men that have nothing more to lose. Their everything has already been taken.
Orbit
I'm a planet
It's because I see your questions as beside the point. Israel and Hamas are bitter enemies with a long history of performing atrocities against one another. Yes, Hamas is bad, and they will try to use civilians as shields. But bombing an entire city block because ONE Hamas operative is said to be there is insane, and that is what is happening on a grand scale. It is disproportional, and that is a war crime (see article below for definitions of war crimes).
To me, there is literally nothing that justifies this continued slaughter of Palestinian civilians, half of whom are children. Not tunnels, not human shields, not Hamas being evil, not hostages, not logistical/military difficulties.
Israel is allowed to do whatever international law permits, but war crimes are not permitted. And both sides have committed war crimes at this point. It needs to stop.
Explainer: What war crimes laws apply to the Israel-Palestinian conflict?
Conflict between Israel and Palestinian forces since militant group Hamas' Oct. 7 assault have created a huge and rising death toll - and accusations of war crimes - on both sides.
Only by either not understanding what concentration camps were like and how they were created, or by not understanding what Gaza is like and how it was created, could you pretend the two are identical. THAT is irresponsible.
You don't think Hamas uses civilians as shields to maximize their casualties? Cmon now. We just went over this.
The leaders of Hamas are literal billionaires.
Meet the Hamas billionaires - Globes
en.globes.co.il
I agree with your idea but neither HAMAS not israel are representing a religion in all of that death.I would suggest that most religions are.
Then we are talking past each other.
Orbit
I'm a planet
Who even mentioned you? I was replying to Left Coast.
They are created to divide people by force.
Do you know what it's like in gaza and the decades of bombings, phosphorus munitions and living without basic utilities?
Do you even care? Or are you so hate filled with 10/7 that nothing else matters?
i read the doc, did you?
That is make believe created by nut cases that make up such rubbish. Billionaires would not be in gaza.
Your credibility is shot. ps.... someone in qatar claiming to be a hamas leader is not relevant and if that is true then shoot at qatar not gaza.
Nut cases that will push propaganda are what caused iraq to be destroyed upon 9/11. I am guessing that next you will say that iran is to blame so the USA will destroy them up too.
By your commenting at least it is clear that you are no Jew. Evidence: no integrity!