Israel dragging USA down

[doppelganger]

Ah, Dearborn.....no need to bring food when La Shish beckons.

Oh my god, La Shish is good. Too bad I don't represent auto makers any more. I miss trips to Dearborn.

 

[Alceste]

since when are the those arrested noncombatants? they claim to be at war. I haven't seen any lay down their arms.
They are only arresting based on political action, not political opinion. Further, to assume that they Israeli government is biased is a false statement.

A better question is what section DOESN'T Israel violate?

so still the question remains: which part of the Geneva Convention did they violate? And in what cases?

Oh, dear! Where to begin?

As I said, Israel is violating the entire 4th convention in the occuppied Palestinian territories. Your unawareness of the facts on the ground is not a rebuttal.

Torture:
BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Israel admits torture

Collective punishment:
The Goldstone Report – an Unofficial Summary | Jews for Justice for Palestinians

Illegal settlements:
Israeli settlement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Indiscriminate, extra-judicial arrest and detainment:
Israel arrests 14-year-old girl among 600-700 arrested so far in the West Bank village of Awarta

UN opinion on Israel and the 4th Geneva Convention:
S/RES/465 (1980) of 1 March 1980

5. Determines that all measures taken by Israel to change the physical character, demographic composition, institutional structure or status of the Palestinian and other Arab territories occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem, or any part thereof, have no legal validity and that Israel's policy and practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in those territories constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;

Still laughing?

 

[Rakhel]

yes still laughing

 

[Alceste]

The blockade is legal:

UN Palmer report: blockade of Gaza legal - The Drum Opinion (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The release of the United Nations Palmer report into last year's flotilla incident aboard the Mavi Marmara has vindicated Israel by finding that its naval blockade of the Gaza strip is legal under international law. Moreover, Israel has the right to enforce that blockade - including in international waters. It has also rebutted many of the false claims and assumptions that have been made about the flotilla incident and about the broader situation in Gaza.

The Palmer report unequivocally found that: "Israel faces a real threat to its security from militant groups in Gaza. The naval blockade was imposed as a legitimate security measure in order to prevent weapons from entering Gaza by sea and its implementation complied with the requirements of international law."

The Turkish ship was nothing but a provocation and those aboard were armed. They knew and were looking for a confrontation and they got one.

The Palmer report (which was an independent report, not a UN resolution) also found that Israel used excessive force boarding the vessels and exercised poor judgment boarding them so far outside the blockade zone.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/Palmer-Committee-Final-report.pdf

Funny you don't mention that part.

 

[Alceste]

yes still laughing

Well then, at some point you're going to have to tell me where you get your information. If the UN, the BBC, Jewish peace activists and the International Criminal Court are a joke to you, you must have pretty high standards.

 

[Shermana]

So unless we respect the UN, Naturei Karta, International Kangaroo Court, and the BBC, we have low standards?

 

[Rakhel]

So unless we respect the UN, Naturei Karta, International Kangaroo Court, and the BBC, we have low standards?

That's pretty much what she is saying.

 

[Alceste]

So unless we respect the UN, Naturei Karta, International Kangaroo Court, and the BBC, we have low standards?

What is your proposed alternative to trying to settle regional conflicts with international diplomacy, treaties and enforcement bodies? What is your proposed alternative to using reputable international news organisations as a source for credible information?

 

[HiddenDjinn]

What is your proposed alternative to trying to settle regional conflicts with international diplomacy, treaties and enforcement bodies? What is your proposed alternative to using reputable international news organisations as a source for credible information?

There exists no neutral body to settle regional conflicts using diplomacy. That used to be Switzerland, but you know...
There truly isn't a nonbiased news agency. All of them are biased in one direction or another. Credible information is a pipe dream of naive individuals.

 

[Shermana]

What is your proposed alternative to trying to settle regional conflicts with international diplomacy, treaties and enforcement bodies? What is your proposed alternative to using reputable international news organisations as a source for credible information?

Are you implying the UN has managed to settle all regional conflicts with such diplomacy and treaties? They've done a great job with the Israeli-wars for the last 60 years haven't they. They definitely stopped Egypt from invading in 1973. They sure missed the boat in Rwanda 1994 for just one little example. Sad to say, the only way for nations to handle their problems is to let them punish each other into submission and let Fate and Karma decide who wins. Not exactly a new concept.

Reputable? Your definition of "Reputable" must differ from mine.

 

[Tamar]

The Palmer report (which was an independent report, not a UN resolution) also found that Israel used excessive force boarding the vessels and exercised poor judgment boarding them so far outside the blockade zone.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/world/Palmer-Committee-Final-report.pdf

Funny you don't mention that part.

I gave the url for further reading. I would say there was excessive force on both sides. Those on the boat welding their weapons and the Israeli Navy who defended themselves. Anyhow what I was posting to was to the fact that Israel has a right to blockade and is acting legally.

Funny how those defending those on the boat welding the weapons need to fall back on sarcasm.

 

[Rakhel]

funny how so often Israel is at fault for failing to abide by UN resolutions, even when they do abide by them, yet other ME countries are in the right when they violate UN resolutions.

 

[Alceste]

There exists no neutral body to settle regional conflicts using diplomacy. That used to be Switzerland, but you know...
There truly isn't a nonbiased news agency. All of them are biased in one direction or another. Credible information is a pipe dream of naive individuals.

And you think the BBC is biased in an anti-Israel direction? An independent review they commissioned found that both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine partisans are equally convinced it is outrageously biased to the other side.

Sounds about as impartial as you're going to get in the mainstream media.

I get a lot of my info from organizations like B'Tselem, Amnesty International, the UN and Human Rights Watch. I don't claim to be impartial (in fact I am very partial to human rights and civil liberties), but when linking stuff for normals I try to use sources most people believe to be neutral.

 

[HiddenDjinn]

And you think the BBC is biased in an anti-Israel direction? An independent review they commissioned found that both pro-Israel and pro-Palestine partisans are equally convinced it is outrageously biased to the other side.

Sounds about as impartial as you're going to get in the mainstream media.

I get a lot of my info from organizations like B'Tselem, Amnesty International, the UN and Human Rights Watch. I don't claim to be impartial (in fact I am very partial to human rights and civil liberties), but when linking stuff for normals I try to use sources most people believe to be neutral.

I find it funny that you expect me to believe that an "independent review" commissioned by the said group that is being reviewed to be intellectually honest. Many other groups you cited have shown themselves to be notoriously biased against Israel on the best of days. Your bias isn't towards human rights, despite how you attempt to fool yourself. Stop playing games.

 

[Alceste]

funny how so often Israel is at fault for failing to abide by UN resolutions, even when they do abide by them, yet other ME countries are in the right when they violate UN resolutions.

Example please.

 

[Shermana]

Where was the UN on Syria's recent massacre of protesters?
Where was the UN on Iran? (Oh yeah they gave them a rights council position)
Where is the UN on Turkey's treatment of Kurds?

 

[Rakhel]

Where was the UN on Syria's recent massacre of protesters?
Where was the UN on Iran? (Oh yeah they gave them a rights council position)
Where is the UN on Turkey's treatment of Kurds?

Let's not forget what happened in Guinea last year.

 

[Alceste]

Where was the UN on Syria's recent massacre of protesters?
Where was the UN on Iran? (Oh yeah they gave them a rights council position)
Where is the UN on Turkey's treatment of Kurds?

Ban Ki-Moon, U.N. Secretary General, Accuses Syria Of Breaking Promises
UN: Iran using front companies to circumvent nuclear sanctions - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

They don't seem to be doing much for the Kurds. They're not perfect, but they're better than nothing.

So what is your proposed alternative to international diplomacy, treaties and enforcement in the resolution of regional disputes?

 

[Alceste]

I gave the url for further reading. I would say there was excessive force on both sides. Those on the boat welding their weapons and the Israeli Navy who defended themselves. Anyhow what I was posting to was to the fact that Israel has a right to blockade and is acting legally.

Funny how those defending those on the boat welding the weapons need to fall back on sarcasm.

According to a report commissioned by the Secretary-General to investigate the flotilla incident, the blockade is legal. According to the UN's Human Rights Council, it isn't.

U.N. experts say Israel's blockade of Gaza illegal | World | Reuters

So it seems this is a matter of opinion, not fact. I'll be more careful in the future to differentiate between the two if you will as well.

 

[Alceste]

I find it funny that you expect me to believe that an "independent review" commissioned by the said group that is being reviewed to be intellectually honest. Many other groups you cited have shown themselves to be notoriously biased against Israel on the best of days. Your bias isn't towards human rights, despite how you attempt to fool yourself. Stop playing games.

Example please. Be forewarned that no organization with ties to the Israeli government, lobby or PR industry is going to be considered "neutral".

Just out of curiosity, why do you have to be rude? Is that a prerequisite for debating for the side of the Israeli government against accusations of breaches of international law? Stop playing games yourself.