Israel stops fuel shipments; Gaza City goes dark

[kai]

Clearly I don't have the answers, I don't know does anybody. But in the face of attack I don't see the Israelis as having many options and in my admittedly poorly informed point of view I think they are being quite restrained. The ID have the capability to mount a serious incursion into Gaza and go after these people firing the rockets, would that be better than temporarily blocking the fuel?
The blockade is now lifted to allow fuel through. The Israeli govt. seem to be playing this high stakes scenario well. Time will tell.

Israels patience will run out hamas is relying on it, they cannot exist without a belligerent Israel

 

[Sunstone]

Clearly I don't have the answers, I don't know does anybody. But in the face of attack I don't see the Israelis as having many options and in my admittedly poorly informed point of view I think they are being quite restrained. The IDF have the capability to mount a serious incursion into Gaza and go after these people firing the rockets, would that be better than temporarily blocking the fuel?
The blockade is now lifted to allow fuel through. The Israeli govt. seem to be playing this high stakes scenario well. Time will tell.

I'm with you, Stephen. I have no idea how to solve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

 

[doppelganger]

Israels patience will run out hamas is relying on it, they cannot exist without a belligerent Israel

And wisdom emerges . . .

 

[Sunstone]

what would u suggest to stop rockets from attacking israel?

I don't know, JS. I'm not a tactician. But would sending in troops work better than cutting off supplies?

 

[jewscout]

I don't know, JS. I'm not a tactician. But would sending in troops work better than cutting off supplies?

if we send in troops it will end only in military occupation and more death for which israel will be criticized for as the evil terrorist state that people view us as.

 

[kai]

if we send in troops it will end only in military occupation and more death for which israel will be criticized for as the evil terrorist state that people view us as.

and Hamas perpetuates the religion of martyrs and the recruits come pouring in

 

[jewscout]

and Hamas perpetuates the religion of martyrs and the recruits come pouring in

i've said it before and i'll say it again, the Arab world has found their way of waging a successful war against Israel...Terrorism and better PR.

 

[credance]

What is the strategy of the Hamas rockets?
It's like poking a tiger with a stick to provoke it to attack. The ones doing the poking have no regard for the safety of those around them especially with them yelling atta boy.
When the tiger strikes they seek sympathy.
Bad tiger, look what he has done. Who will help us fight this tiger.
Peace can not be achieved if it is not desired.
Hamas' goal is to escalate the violence with the ultimate goal of wiping Israel off the map.
Does anyone think Israel is unaware of this?
To Hamas I say, quit poking the tiger.

 

[Fluffy]

What is the goal of Israel? Do they believe that the population of Gaza will blame Hamas for their predicament? Do they realise that they will have to lift the restrictions at some point or do they intend to keep them in place no matter the cost to the people in Gaza?

It seems either a hollow threat or cruel. Worse, it seems like it will only feed intolerance of Israel. I don't understand how this helps Israel at all.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

The logic behind a decision like this is no different than the logic behind economic sanctions against an entire country. The sanctions like the one that plagued Iraq for 10 years, was supposedly done to target the government or make the people overthrow it. However, it was the citizens that suffered disproportionately as compared the the regime that ran them. Saddams family and his rule suffered comparatively little in that whole time. The Gazans the same. Hamas will suffer little or won't care about it, and the regular people goind about their day will suffer much.

I refuse to believe that every single Gazan man woman and child are purposely harboring terrorists, or can do that against an Israel that is stronger than it. It's like the US allowing......Puerto Rico to bomb it everyday. The international community would look at the US realy stupid for not being able to squash that. Israel could technically go over to Gaza, wipe the people off the map and voila, problem over. I don't think the international community care much about the Gazans as individual people anyway, and Israel has the full support and backing of the US whatever they decide to do, so even if they launched a full offensive against the palestinians in the gaza strip, it would probably be better than torturing them with a "less inhumane" punishment for all. At least a full military assault would be quick.

I'm not advocating a full military strike but, I'm just saying that I don't see how punishing an entire community of individuals, who probably want to live normally, gets rid of the threat of some missiles and a government that was elected but has no real defense against Israel is better than all out war. Israel could crush them all and still get US support so why don't they?

 

[Smoke]

I refuse to believe that every single Gazan man woman and child are purposely harboring terrorists, or can do that against an Israel that is stronger than it. [...]

I'm not advocating a full military strike but, I'm just saying that I don't see how punishing an entire community of individuals, who probably want to live normally, gets rid of the threat of some missiles and a government that was elected but has no real defense against Israel is better than all out war. Israel could crush them all and still get US support so why don't they?

How do you think Israel should respond?

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

How do you think Israel should respond?

I don't know. I do know that I dislike the idea of any group of civilians suffering for the actions of its government. I don't have the answers, wish I did.

 

[credance]

The logic behind a decision like this is no different than the logic behind economic sanctions against an entire country. The sanctions like the one that plagued Iraq for 10 years, was supposedly done to target the government or make the people overthrow it. However, it was the citizens that suffered disproportionately as compared the the regime that ran them. Saddams family and his rule suffered comparatively little in that whole time. The Gazans the same. Hamas will suffer little or won't care about it, and the regular people goind about their day will suffer much.

I refuse to believe that every single Gazan man woman and child are purposely harboring terrorists, or can do that against an Israel that is stronger than it. It's like the US allowing......Puerto Rico to bomb it everyday. The international community would look at the US realy stupid for not being able to squash that. Israel could technically go over to Gaza, wipe the people off the map and voila, problem over. I don't think the international community care much about the Gazans as individual people anyway, and Israel has the full support and backing of the US whatever they decide to do, so even if they launched a full offensive against the palestinians in the gaza strip, it would probably be better than torturing them with a "less inhumane" punishment for all. At least a full military assault would be quick.

I'm not advocating a full military strike but, I'm just saying that I don't see how punishing an entire community of individuals, who probably want to live normally, gets rid of the threat of some missiles and a government that was elected but has no real defense against Israel is better than all out war. Israel could crush them all and still get US support so why don't they?

Surely you jest. Genocide is never the answer. Israel has no desire to wipe out the Gazans unlike hamas' agenda concerning them. And you are wrong about the world not caring for the Gazans. The world at large has deep feelings for the suffering of innocents caught up in the "if you are not with us you are the enemy" They could have their power if they quit attacking civilians. Israel , I truly believe would stand down if they were not under constant attack. What hope is there when the hopeless take the short cut to the next life effectively damning those left behind. Are we not stewards of this world? There is a path to more abundant life for all concerned. If someone wants to walk this path they are quickly derailed.
I beg them, please, please give peace a chance. Sow the seeds of peace and you will reap hope. Hope is very powerful and necessary to have a flourishing, constructive society. Pick up a shovel, hammer, or plow. Throw down the bombs and guns. They only sow death and destruction. If you throw a hard ball against a brick wall it will only bonce back and hit you or your neighbor, who is not guilty of throwing the ball. But the ball does not always discriminate.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Surely you jest. Genocide is never the answer. Israel has no desire to wipe out the Gazans unlike hamas' agenda concerning them. And you are wrong about the world not caring for the Gazans. The world at large has deep feelings for the suffering of innocents caught up in the "if you are not with us you are the enemy" They could have their power if they quit attacking civilians. Israel , I truly believe would stand down if they were not under constant attack. What hope is there when the hopeless take the short cut to the next life effectively damning those left behind. Are we not stewards of this world? There is a path to more abundant life for all concerned. If someone wants to walk this path they are quickly derailed.
I beg them, please, please give peace a chance. Sow the seeds of peace and you will reap hope. Hope is very powerful and necessary to have a flourishing, constructive society. Pick up a shovel, hammer, or plow. Throw down the bombs and guns. They only sow death and destruction. If you throw a hard ball against a brick wall it will only bonce back and hit you or your neighbor, who is not guilty of throwing the ball. But the ball does not always discriminate.

No I don't support the wholesale murder or genocide of anyone. I was expressing my disdain for the punishment of a whole entire group of people, when it is inconceivable that all of them, every last one if them, is guilty.

I guess we would have to go back to the beginning to find where it all went wrong. Could Israelis done something different to establish their sovereignty and be amicable towards the people already established there? Could the palestinians done something different as well? What is keeping peace? It seems to me that people believe most if not all the responsibility lies on the Palestinians to create peace. The only way for them to do that is to

A) Accept the rule of Israel and just chalk it up how it went down.

or

B) Move away from the land altogether and try to assimilate elsewhere.

How easy is either of these choices? How do you give one side what it wants without damning the other? I imagine the Palestinians feel robbed and that's why they fight. Are they really suffering? Does it matter if they are or not? As long as they continue to dislike the takeover of Israel (hostile or not) does whatever they suffer just desserts for them? Is Israel ever doing anything to promote these ill feelings, or is it all hamas' fault?



As an aside, what about the missiles that are being shot at Israeli towns? If it is feared that Saudi is helping to supply hamas with weapons, and the US is allies with Saudi, wouldn't that implicate the US in indirectly assisting a continuing conflict in that area? If in fact Saudi is providing some form of weapons or a way to get weapons, the US doesn't seem too bothered by it. Wouldn't that also be two-faced though since US claims to be such supporters of Israel? Why support it's enemies then?

 

[kai]

What is the goal of Israel? to be left alone ! Do they believe that the population of Gaza will blame Hamas for their predicament? no the PR machine is already to good for that Do they realise that they will have to lift the restrictions at some point or do they intend to keep them in place no matter the cost to the people in Gaza?easy answer is stop the rockets

It seems either a hollow threat or cruel. Worse, it seems like it will only feed intolerance of Israel. I don't understand how this helps Israel at all.

it doesnt help anyone, stop the rockets , i will say it again stop the rockets.

is it so hard to understand when muslims are doing something wrong, why is no muslim state telling Hamas stop the rockets?
why are their egyptian brothers shooting people trying to get over the border?

 

[kai]

The logic behind a decision like this is no different than the logic behind economic sanctions against an entire country. The sanctions like the one that plagued Iraq for 10 years, was supposedly done to target the government or make the people overthrow it. However, it was the citizens that suffered disproportionately as compared the the regime that ran them. Saddams family and his rule suffered comparatively little in that whole time. The Gazans the same. Hamas will suffer little or won't care about it, and the regular people goind about their day will suffer much.

I refuse to believe that every single Gazan man woman and child are purposely harboring terrorists, or can do that against an Israel that is stronger than it. It's like the US allowing......Puerto Rico to bomb it everyday. The international community would look at the US realy stupid for not being able to squash that. Israel could technically go over to Gaza, wipe the people off the map and voila, problem over. I don't think the international community care much about the Gazans as individual people anyway, and Israel has the full support and backing of the US whatever they decide to do, so even if they launched a full offensive against the palestinians in the gaza strip, it would probably be better than torturing them with a "less inhumane" punishment for all. At least a full military assault would be quick.

I'm not advocating a full military strike but, I'm just saying that I don't see how punishing an entire community of individuals, who probably want to live normally, gets rid of the threat of some missiles and a government that was elected but has no real defense against Israel is better than all out war. Israel could crush them all and still get US support so why don't they?

do you think Hams should stop the rockets?

 

[kai]

On a similar thread I posted a news article (not even my opinion!) that said Gaza was still getting electric power, and it was removed by some moderator. So guess what? Islam can join Mormonism in my list of things I don't care about. Muslims can join LDS in my list of people I don't care about.

i have posted here similar items and they are still here, and its a little harsh not to care about muslims or LDS because your post was deleted, blame the mods by all means ,but dont give up

 

[kai]

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Palestinians blow up border wall

a little bit of solidarity from their muslim brothers would not go amiss ,but then Hamas is the last thing Egypt needs right now

 

[jewscout]

B) Move away from the land altogether and try to assimilate elsewhere.

this would be difficult since the Arab world has shown that they don't want the palestinians either.

aside from several thousand in Jordan and Egypt, how many have been granted citizenship elsewhere?

As an aside, what about the missiles that are being shot at Israeli towns? If it is feared that Saudi is helping to supply hamas with weapons, and the US is allies with Saudi, wouldn't that implicate the US in indirectly assisting a continuing conflict in that area? If in fact Saudi is providing some form of weapons or a way to get weapons, the US doesn't seem too bothered by it. Wouldn't that also be two-faced though since US claims to be such supporters of Israel? Why support it's enemies then?

because the US wants to have both Israel and the Saudis in their pocket. Israel offers a strategic ally in the region, especially w/ the "war on terrorism" going on (now that there is no Cold War) and Saudi's for, well, cheap oil...the Bush family and the Saudi's have been doing business for years.

why not play both sides off each other? The money that Israel gets from the US, we're not permitted to spend it on things like Education, our contract forces us to buy from American only weapons manufacturers to keep American businessmen nicely fed w/ money (which they are really taking from the tax payers, just another example of big business taking from the average working man)

 

[kai]

its not in the Arabs interest to assimilate the "Palestinians" they are needed as the catalyst to attack Israel without them they have peace, and who wants that?