Israel stops fuel shipments; Gaza City goes dark

[EiNsTeiN]

Who said we are not looking for peace?
There is already a peace agreement between Egypt, Jordan and Israel..

this would be difficult since the Arab world has shown that they don't want the palestinians either.

aside from several thousand in Jordan and Egypt, how many have been granted citizenship elsewhere?

And do you think granting them citizinships would solve the whole issue?
They are palestinians, and they deserve to live in their home land, exactly as the Israelis are..

The entire problem in my opinion is that Israel isn't realizing the Arabs nature...And they are not even trying to understand it...

Once they decide to treat the palestinians as people who have the right to live there, and to respect their right to OWN their own lands, then maybe peace would find a place..

Otherwise, Israel will keep treating them as terrorists, Hamas will keep proving that point, and the innocent palestinians will keep supporting Hamas whom they consider heroes since they fight those who treat them as terrorists...It's a continous loop that will never end that way..

It's a matter of compromise and mutual respect..

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Who said we are not looking for peace?

Who is the "we" in that sentence?

 

[EiNsTeiN]

Who is the "we" in that sentence?

I would say Arabs ?

 

[jewscout]

And do you think granting them citizinships would solve the whole issue?

yes, actually i do, it worked for Arab Jews leaving the Arab world and were granted citizenship in Israel.

Once they decide to treat the palestinians as people who have the right to live there, and to respect their right to OWN their own lands, then maybe peace would find a place..

one, we didn't cut the electricity, Hamas did. Our powerplant continued to funnel in power to Gaza. Two our blockade is due to continued rocket attacks on Sderot which Hamas spokesmen have said will end with the city of Sderot is abandoned by Israel. Three, most of the land in this region was not directly owned by anyone who lived here, most of it was owned by landlords in Damascus and Istanbul.

We have tried to work toward peace, but no one can ensure us an end to terrorism nor do they have the strength and/or desire to stop it.

It's a matter of compromise and mutual respect..

we have offered compromises with no promise of an end to the violence, even to a point that almost brought this country to civil war...
but it's never enough.

 

[EiNsTeiN]

yes, actually i do, it worked for Arab Jews leaving the Arab world and were granted citizenship in Israel.



one, we didn't cut the electricity, Hamas did. Our powerplant continued to funnel in power to Gaza. Two our blockade is due to continued rocket attacks on Sderot which Hamas spokesmen have said will end with the city of Sderot is abandoned by Israel. Three, most of the land in this region was not directly owned by anyone who lived here, most of it was owned by landlords in Damascus and Istanbul.

I wasn't talking about this particular situation...I'm talking in general..

Does what you say mean that you will stop treating palestinians as terrorists once Hamas stops the rockets?
I doubt

 

[EiNsTeiN]

we have offered compromises with no promise of an end to the violence, even to a point that almost brought this country to civil war...
but it's never enough.

Never enough?

So?..what do u think would end it?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

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[kai]

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guilty as charged , my apologies!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I agree that Israel is bound to defend itself.
Is there any way out of this in sight or will Israel will be permanently at war?

The Arab world has, roughly,

• 650 times as much land, for
• 50 times the population, resulting in
• less than one tenth the population density.

Let this colossus absorb the Palestinian refugee much as Israel has absorbed the Jewish refugees from the Arab world.

 

[doppelganger]

Who says we are looking for peace?

Doesn't "Islam" mean "peace"? :areyoucra

 

[Wandered Off]

I thought it meant "submission".

 

[doppelganger]

I thought it meant "submission".

I've heard both, and philosophical explanations about how "submission" and "peace" are the same thing. Arab speakers may correct me, but I've read several times Muslims explain that the root word for "Islam" is derived from the Arabic word for "peace."

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

The Arab world has, roughly,

• 650 times as much land, for
• 50 times the population, resulting in
• less than one tenth the population density.

Let this colossus absorb the Palestinian refugee much as Israel has absorbed the Jewish refugees from the Arab world.

This goes back to my other point about the Palastenians just leaving and trying to go elsewhere. If other countries absorbed them that would be great, but what about the Palastenians that don't want to leave? Should they be forced to leave if it makes Israel feel better?

Would it be feasible to create a law whereby the Palastinians MUST leave Gaza and all Israeli territories? It would effectively solve the problem, but how fair is it?

Edit Note: It seems Israel could give a care what happens to the Palastinians so long as they get off the land or disappear somehow. Creating such a law would force other countries to absorb them whether they wanted to or not. In any case it seems that allowing the Palastinians to stay on their ancestral land and sharing it seems to be just as out the question for Israel as it seems for the Palastinians.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

do you think Hams should stop the rockets?

Yes as a matter of fact I do think they should stop shooting rockets so that something can get done. After all though I could see why you'd have to ask me that question cuz everybody here knows that FVM that hatemongering ***** would like nothing more than see a jew die by the hands of a jihadi right? I can understand your confusion and your need for clarification because you know all muslims hate peace and anything that leads to it, especially me so why would I want the rockets to stop.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Who bears the responsibility of creating peace in that region?

Would we say 50-50, 60-40 (palastinian), 70-30 (palastinian), 80-20 (palastinian), 90-10 or 100% palastinians responsibility?


Is there anyone here willing to say that Israel has any resposibility in this regard, or would you all agree that Israel is only a little at fault or not at all?

This is what it seems to me.....let's say I and my family for generations have been living in a house. Jewscout comes along (because he is dis-enfranchised) and says that it is his ancestral home, and wishes that I and my family move out. Neither of us have any legal deeds or papers that would clarify ownership, so we both feel entitled to the house. Jewscout asks me why I am against his right to provide a place to stay for him and his family? I say I am not against it, I feel that I also have a similar right. If jewscout then says that he will build me a shack on the property of the land as long as I am willing to take it, or I am free to find anothe place to live altogether, what should I do?

Is it wrong for me to fight for the land and house (let's say a legal fight).
Should my relatives who have problems of their own take me in?
Should I give up the land without a mumble because it is jewscouts ancestral home?
Would my rights to the house be usurped automatically?
If I resist what is the reasonable extent that jewscout can go to ensure that I do not resist leaving?
If we get into a physical fight over it, who is at fault for it?

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I just thought this was an interesting article.

Gazans flood Egypt after border breach - Yahoo! News


A couple things int he article caught my attention.

Moussa Zuroub, 28, carried his young daughter, Aseel, on his shoulders through the muddy streets of Rafah, which is divided by a wall into Egyptian and Gazan segments. "I'm coming just to break that ice — that all my life, I'd never left Gaza before," he said.

I didn't know they were isolated like that.

"It is Hamas' actions of lobbing upwards of 150 rockets a day into their territory that has caused the blockade — has caused Israel to implement the blockade," Perino said. "Hamas is not in control of the situation, they are not governing well, and the people of the — the Palestinian people are starting to realize that they do have a choice."
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said he won't allow Gazans to live ordinary lives while Israelis next to Gaza are suffering from daily rocket attacks.
"We will not allow under any condition, or any situation, creation of a humanitarian crisis. We will not hit food supplies for children or medicines for the needy," he said.
But Olmert added: "Does anyone seriously think that our children will wet their beds at night in fear and be afraid to go out of the house and they (Gazans) will live in quiet normality?"

Okay couple questions. How do you make sure not to hit food supplies for children only, or did I misread that?

And secondly what does Olmert plan to do to make Palestinian lives more miserable exactly? To me it was clear what he said. What he didn't say was that as long as the citizens of Israel are scared the terrorist will not live ordinary lives. What he said was that the Gazans, meaning the ordinary citizen live peaceably until his citizens can do the same. i ask what do you think he plans to do to them now? Up the ante I guess?


Also this was the worst part of the article to me:

But true relief came with the toppling of the wall. Egyptian shopkeepers took advantage of the surge in customers, swiftly raising prices of milk, taxi rides and cigarettes. Shops quickly ran out of most of their goods.

Astaghfirullah atheem!!! Your muslim brothers and sisters are in need next to you, they are impoverished and poor, and you are already going to sell your whole store, and instead of thinking how much reward they will get from Allah for assisting those in need, they price gouge them. What a shame, and we wonder why th emuslims can't get off the ground. That was shameful, just shameful!

 

[kai]

Yes as a matter of fact I do think they should stop shooting rockets so that something can get done. After all though I could see why you'd have to ask me that question cuz everybody here knows that FVM that hatemongering ***** would like nothing more than see a jew die by the hands of a jihadi right? I can understand your confusion and your need for clarification because you know all muslims hate peace and anything that leads to it, especially me so why would I want the rockets to stop.

purely because you didnt mention it ,
there is no need to be so defensive it can be taken the wrong way to protest a little too loudly.
regards Kai

 

[kai]

Gazans flood Egypt after border breach - Yahoo! News

yes very interesting
Osama Hassan, 25, said the border opening will enable him to marry his 17-year-old fiancee next week, because they were able to get items they need to set up a household. He bought a special mattress for his injured back and she assembled kitchen supplies.

"Freedom is good. We need no border after today," said Mohammed Abu Ghazal, a 29-year-old out-of-work Gazan. "How does Egypt feel about this of course Gaza used to be egyptian before it became palestinian" my comment by the way!


Children bought soft drinks and chocolate, women scooped up cheese and cleaning products, and men stocked up on cigarettes — all expensive or simply unavailable in Gaza because of Israel's shutdown of cargo crossings.

Other Palestinians staggered over toppled metal plates that once made up the border fence, carrying TV sets, cell phones, tires and plastic bottles filled with fuel. Some brought in goats and chickens.


Shoppers depleted stores in the border town of Rafah, prompting Ashraf el-Sayyid, an Egyptian, to ride his motorbike into the Gaza Strip — going against both traffic and logic. "I need to buy bread for my children," he said. "The Palestinians left us with nothing. It's true, they are dear to us, but today, they were like locusts

Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak said he told his border officials to let the Palestinians cross because they were "starving" under the Israeli blockade. However, not only have there been no cases of starvation reported, but there are no claims of starvation from officials or aid workers, and none are visible to anyone who lives or works in Gaza.

is it just me or what but it hardly speaks of a humanitarian disaster

 

[kai]

your story of js and his antics is very good but maybe a little facts might throw some light on the subject
http://lexicorient.com/e.o/gazastrp.htm

1993: Signing of the Oslo Agreement, intended to secure the establishment of a Palestinian State on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip

 

[jewscout]

Does what you say mean that you will stop treating palestinians as terrorists once Hamas stops the rockets?
I doubt

actually that's exactly what i mean. If they stopped firing rockets and did something to show they cared about their own people and not about killing us we would help and i would support such help.

but since rockets have been falling since we left Gush Katif...

we'll never know will we?

isn't that convenient