Israelites were polytheistic

[outhouse]

Debatable.


Feel free.

if this were true I would not have to point out El's place above yahweh for much of teh Israelites culture. You would know E

but anyway this may help if you can stay awake bud, it puts me to sleep


The Legends of Genesis: V. Jahvist, Elohist, Jehovist, the Later Collections

 

[tumbleweed41]

Canaanites have always been viewed as all other religions in the area, Polytheistic.

No one is arguing that.

But for some reason you fail to see the henotheism and monolatry that is is commonplace in polytheism.

 

[outhouse]

No one is arguing that.

But for some reason you fail to see the henotheism and monolatry that is is commonplace in polytheism.

really? i have to state it again for you?

while it is common place, it does not reflect early Israelites as a whole, until after 622 when worshipp to Yahweh became mainstream for the WHOLE culture.

 

[fallingblood]

According to whom?

People who want to see such?

On a side note, don't you just love Wikipedia?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

No one is arguing that.

But for some reason you fail to see ...

At some point you'll come to recognize that banging your head against an outhouse wall is a malodorous exercise in futility.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

On a side note, don't you just love Wikipedia?

Almost as much as someone seems to love Josiah.

 

[tumbleweed41]

if this were true I would not have to point out El's place above yahweh for much of teh Israelites culture. You would know E

but anyway this may help if you can stay awake bud, it puts me to sleep


The Legends of Genesis: V. Jahvist, Elohist, Jehovist, the Later Collections

I was hoping for some more recent scholarship. But yes, Gunkels work is well known. Comparable to Wellhausens scholarship on the Documentary Hypothesis of the same period.
You may be interested to know that both considered henotheism to be the bridge between basic polytheism and monotheism.
Wellhausen equated them with the progression of natural religion->prophetic religion->priestly religion.

 

[tumbleweed41]

while it is common place, it does not reflect early Israelites as a whole, until after 622 when worshipp to Yahweh became mainstream for the WHOLE culture.

According to whom?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

it does not reflect early Israelites as a whole, until after 622 when worshipp to Yahweh became mainstream for the WHOLE culture.

2 Kings 23:36-37

Jehoiakim was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned for eleven years in Jerusalem. His mother was Zebidah the daughter of Pedaiah, from Rumah. He did evil in the sight of the Lord as his ancestors had done.

2 Kings 24:8-10

Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he became king, and he reigned three months in Jerusalem. His mother was Nehushta the daughter of Elnathan, from Jerusalem. He did evil in the sight of the Lord as his ancestors had done. At that time the generals of King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon marched to Jerusalem and besieged the city.

Somebody is just not very good at this ... :no:

 

[Bob Dixon]

I've got some Cherry Vodka and cola.

I'd rather you had Cherry Cola and Vodka.

 

[fallingblood]

I was hoping for some more recent scholarship. But yes, Gunkels work is well known. Comparable to Wellhausens scholarship on the Documentary Hypothesis of the same period.
You may be interested to know that both considered henotheism to be the bridge between basic polytheism and monotheism.
Wellhausen equated them with the progression of natural religion->prophetic religion->priestly religion.

I would like to add something here. Since the time of Gunkels work, the documentary hypothesis has undergone some major revisions. I recently read Joseph Blenkisopp's The Pentateuch, and he brings up quite a few criticisms of the documentary hypothesis, mainly as it was in the original form. So, as you said, Gunkel is good, but not recent enough.

I'm assuming you probably knew this though. You seem quite well grounded in this subject.

 

[fallingblood]

I'd rather you had Cherry Cola and Vodka.

How about Cherry Dr. Pepper and Vodka?

Jay, want in on some of this?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I recently read Joseph Blenkisopp's The Pentateuch, ...

Excellent book!

 

[outhouse]

I would like to add something here. Since the time of Gunkels work, the documentary hypothesis has undergone some major revisions. I recently read Joseph Blenkisopp's The Pentateuch, and he brings up quite a few criticisms of the documentary hypothesis, mainly as it was in the original form. So, as you said, Gunkel is good, but not recent enough.

I'm assuming you probably knew this though. You seem quite well grounded in this subject.

I agree


the good work still gives one a decent foundation to build upon, its never been my only view.

 

[outhouse]

Somebody is just not very good at this ... :no:

your great at being rude and unhelpful, as well as biased

 

[outhouse]

polytheism stands at this point to 622 BC ISH until someone can show evidence that yahweh worship was primary through the whole country by all tribes. All the while still worshipping El, Baal, and Asherah

basically you need to refute Karens work and atleast show her mistakes. Ive found a few but it doesnt discount all of her work.

 

[tumbleweed41]

polytheism stands at this point to 622 BC ISH until someone can show evidence that yahweh worship was primary through the whole country by all tribes. All the while still worshipping El, Baal, and Asherah

basically you need to refute Karens work and atleast show her mistakes. Ive found a few but it doesnt discount all of her work.

Refute it? Heck, I'll quote it.

In the late 9th Century [BCE], other gods were still alluring, but they had to stay on the other side of the Jordan. This was not a monotheistic text. If no other gods existed, it would be unnecessary for the people to make such a choice. Monolotry (the worship of a single god) was a liturgical arrangement. The "Yahweh alone" movement urged Israelites to offer sacrifice only to Yahweh and ignore the cult of other deities.
Karen Armstrong, The Great Transformation

Yes, I have this book.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yes, I have this book.

Karen Armstrong

 

[Rakhel]

Where in this:

Iron Age I (1200 BCE - 1000 BCE)


The name Israel first appears in the stele of the Egyptian pharaoh Merneptah c. 1209 BCE, "Israel is laid waste and his seed is no more."[18] This "Israel" was a cultural and probably political entity of the central highlands, well enough established to be perceived by the Egyptians as a possible challenge to their hegemony, but an ethnic group rather than an organised state;[19] Archaeologist Paula McNutt says: "It is probably ... during Iron Age I [that] a population began to identify itself as 'Israelite'," differentiating itself from its neighbours via prohibitions on intermarriage, an emphasis on family history and genealogy, and religion.[20]
In the Late Bronze Age there were no more than about 25 villages in the highlands, but this increased to over 300 by the end of Iron I, while the settled population doubled from 20,000 to 40,000.[21] The villages were more numerous and larger in the north, and probably shared the highlands with pastoral nomads who left no remains.[22] Archaeologists and historians attempting to trace the origins of these villagers have found it impossible to identify any distinctive features that could define them as specifically Israelite – collared-rim jars and four-room houses have been identified outside the highlands and thus cannot be used to distinguish Israelite sites,[23] and while the pottery of the highland villages is far more limited than that of lowland Canaanite sites, it develops typologically out of Canaanite pottery that came before.[24] Israel Finkelstein proposed that the oval or circular layout that distinguishes some of the earliest highland sites, and the notable absence of pig bones from hill sites, could be taken as a marker of ethnicity, but others have cautioned that these can be a "common-sense" adaptation to highland life and not necessarily revelatory of origins.[25] Other Aramaean sites also demonstrate a contemporary absence of pig remains at that time, unlike earlier Canaanite and later Philistine excavations. Modern scholars therefore see Israel arising peacefully and internally in the highlands.[26]

Does it even mention any god by any name?

your speaking from a standpoint of lack of knowledge in biblical text that often say El is the father deity.


your also lacking, probably forgetting one of the first links I posted

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like many Ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on the cult of the ancestors and the worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers")

and in this case the FATHER was EL


what part of family dont you understand??????

 

[outhouse]

Karen Armstrong, The Great Transformation

Nope

A History Of God