It is possible that Jesus sinned.

[Awoon]

Someone once wrote, “The family is the cornerstone of society.” God’s law does preserve the family unit. There are times though a couple is better to split up rather than stay together. During Jesus’s time a very poplar Rabbi by the name Hillel believed a man could divorce his wife for something as trivial as burning his toast. If I understand Hillel correctly, sorry to say, he was wrong. Divorce comes with a price. There are a higher percentage of fatherless men in prison then there is in the general population. There is a higher percentage of teen pregnancies among fatherless girls then there is among girls from a intact family.

So, people like to have sex.

 

[roger1440]

If Jesus took that long to explain his position like your link, he would have died of old age.:run:

Is this better?

“The family is the corner stone of our society. More than any other force it shapes the attitude, the hopes, the ambitions, and the values of the child. And when the family collapses it is the children that are usually damaged. When it happens on a massive scale the community itself is crippled. So, unless we work to strengthen the family, to create conditions under which most parents will stay together, all the rest — schools, playgrounds, and public assitance, and private concern — will never be enough.”-Lyndon Baines Johnson

 

[roger1440]

So, people like to have sex.

Yes, people like to have sex. The very purpose of sex is procreation. With procreation comes responsibly.

 

[CMike]

It is written that a written divorcement could be given to a wife for any reason. Jesus is recorded as saying that the only grounds for divorce was fornication.

That is another example of jesus adding or subtracting from the law.

G-D allows for divorce. He speaks about the laws of it in the Torah.

 

[sojourner]

That is exactly my point. Jesus claims he is a different divinical entity. Since he claimed to be "the Son".

However, G-D said he is One, and there is only him. Therefore, he is challenging G-D.

Jesus doesn't make that claim. Neither does the doctrine. "Person" is not the same thing as "entity," especially since the claim is made that all three Persons have one Being.

So, yes. God is One, just as God claims.

"Why have you forsaken me?" is a really whimpy thing to say.

Sooo... Psalm 22 is wimpy?

To wit:
Psalm 22:1a
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

The true great jewish people when being executed proclaimed "Hear O'Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-rd is One.

Sooo... the Psalmist isn't a "true great Jewish [person]?"

Aside from being really wimpy, he was talking to G-D, another entity. He wasn't asking himself why have you forsaken me? That would be silly, wouldn't you agree?

Again, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22. Not a particularly silly thing to do when one is in distress.

It can assert anything, however, there are three distinct entities (gods).

No. There is one God. There are three distinct Persons.

G-d can do anything. However, why would he want too?

"Because God loves us" is as good an answer as any.

Reconcile humanity? He doesn't have to reconcile anthing, he crated it.

So, the whole Yom Kippur thing and the whole Temple thing are unnecessary? Great. I'll pass that along to the Jewish religious authorities.

At least our G-D doesn't blatantly contradict himself.

You're right. God doesn't contradict God's self. Even when Incarnate.

Stating that he "fulfilled the law". He is substracting from the law.

Now who's "contradicting?" "Fulfillment" =/= "subtraction."

Please remember the next time christians go into the five books of Moses, Prophets, and Scriptures and start recreating it to add jesus in.

We don't do that.

I thought you just wrote that he was god?

Alluding to his Divinity in God and "proclaiming himself a god" are two different things. Misdirection isn't going to work here.

That he absolved everyone of their sins

God can't forgive sins? (BTW, forgiving sins = reconciling.)

That people must go through him to get to G-D

Still doesn't constitute Jesus "proclaiming himself to be a god."

That he is the "son of god"

Yep. But not "a god."

That he performed miracles, rather than G-d performing miracles

Since he is God, his miracle-working does constitute God performing miracles.

All these things were him making himself a divine entity which he wasn't. There is only one G-D.

No. These things point us to the fact that Jesus is God Incarnate. There is only one God.

Therefore, no sin committed.

 

[roger1440]

That is another example of jesus adding or subtracting from the law.

G-D allows for divorce. He speaks about the laws of it in the Torah.

Yes, Mike you are right, but the greater commandment would be for us to cultivate forgiveness within our heart. Somewhere in the Torah it quotes God saying, “Vengeance is mine.” I may be mistaken but I think that may have been Jesus’s message.

 

[sojourner]

That is another example of jesus adding or subtracting from the law.

G-D allows for divorce. He speaks about the laws of it in the Torah.

Sounds more like interpretation to me. Sort of like what happens in Talmud. Therefore, Talmud is an example of adding/subtracting to and from the Law, placing it in violation of Deuteronomy.

But wait! Perhaps "adding to and subtracting from" mean something different than you're alluding to here. Laws always require interpretation. Interpretation does not constitute "adding/subtracting." Jesus is interpreting. Therefore, not sinning.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Jesus isn't recorded to say that. What he's recorded to say was something a little bit different to the effect that divorce is legal but comes from hard hearts. That is a lot different.

It puts into question the thoroughness of the accuser. Apparently for them its just a game.

 

[Awoon]

That is another example of jesus adding or subtracting from the law.

G-D allows for divorce. He speaks about the laws of it in the Torah.

Yep, the creator of Jesus didn't know the Torah, did he?

 

[CMike]

Jesus doesn't make that claim. Neither does the doctrine. "Person" is not the same thing as "entity," especially since the claim is made that all three Persons have one Being.

So, yes. God is One, just as God claims.

There persons are three distinct entities. Therefore, you are worshipping three gods. This is directly contradictory to what G-D said.

Sooo... Psalm 22 is wimpy?

To wit:
Psalm 22:1a
My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

Sooo... the Psalmist isn't a "true great Jewish [person]?"

Again, Jesus was quoting Psalm 22. Not a particularly silly thing to do when one is in distress.

King David wasn't about to be killed .He was praying to G-D.

However, Rabbi Avikah when being tortured and then killed by the Romans proclaimed the Hear O'Israel prayer. The courageous jews did so upon their death.

Besides why should have jesus been in distress, after all according to jesus he was either

1) a god

2) son of god

3) divine power

4) Sacrificing himself.

So if he was sacrificing himself he should have been happy that the romans were going to execute him.

So was he in distress about being executed or did he want to be sacrificed?

No. There is one God. There are three distinct Persons.

1+1+=3. You are worshipping three gods.

"Because God loves us" is as good an answer as any.

The ability to sin is a good thing. It's what brings us to closer to G-D. That's why we aren't robots.

However, if G-D wanted to absolve us of all our sins, which makes absolutely no sense, he can do so at any time.

He doesn't have to turn into man than into god than into man than into god. There is no logic behind this :faint:

So, the whole Yom Kippur thing and the whole Temple thing are unnecessary? Great. I'll pass that along to the Jewish religious authorities.

And that has what to do with "reconciling humanity?

You're right. God doesn't contradict God's self. Even when Incarnate..

That wouldn't make him G-D anymore.

Now who's "contradicting?" "Fulfillment" =/= "subtraction." .

We don't do that.

Alluding to his Divinity in God and "proclaiming himself a god" are two different things. Misdirection isn't going to work here.

Not really. He claimed to have divinity. That is a direct contradiction to what G-D said when he said in numerous passages that only he has divine power and to put his trust only in him.

God can't forgive sins? (BTW, forgiving sins = reconciling.)

Still doesn't constitute Jesus "proclaiming himself to be a god."

Yep. But not "a god."

You are playing semantics. Saying he has divine power is making himself as if he was a god. Only G-D has divine power.



Since he is God, his miracle-working does constitute God performing miracles.

You are contradicting yourself. You said that he didn't say he was a god just had divine power. Make up your mind. :cover:

No. These things point us to the fact that Jesus is God Incarnate. There is only one God.

1+1+1 is still 3.

 

[CMike]

Originally Posted by CMike
That is another example of jesus adding or subtracting from the law.

G-D allows for divorce. He speaks about the laws of it in the Torah.

Sounds more like interpretation to me. Sort of like what happens in Talmud. Therefore, Talmud is an example of adding/subtracting to and from the Law, placing it in violation of Deuteronomy..

Since G-D directly talks about the rules of divorce how is that interpretation.

FYI the oral law was given on Mt. Sinai to Moses as well. It's part of the law.

But wait! Perhaps "adding to and subtracting from" mean something different than you're alluding to here. Laws always require interpretation. Interpretation does not constitute "adding/subtracting." Jesus is interpreting. Therefore, not sinning.

Laws require clarification, not creative interpretation.

No law in the Torah has been added to nor subtracted from by jews.

 

[Ouroboros]

1+1+1 is still 3.

Yeah. But it's only one digit.

 

[metis]

I have long felt that the early church saw Jesus as being of God but not literally God.

 

[Ouroboros]

I have long felt that the early church saw Jesus as being of God but not literally God.

I think so too. Considering the epithet they gave him. Messiah/Christ, anointed by God. Why would God have to be anointed by himself?

 

[CMike]

Yes, Mike you are right, but the greater commandment would be for us to cultivate forgiveness within our heart. Somewhere in the Torah it quotes God saying, “Vengeance is mine.” I may be mistaken but I think that may have been Jesus’s message.

Wasn't that the godfather?

 

[CMike]

Sounds more like interpretation to me. Sort of like what happens in Talmud. Therefore, Talmud is an example of adding/subtracting to and from the Law, placing it in violation of Deuteronomy.

But wait! Perhaps "adding to and subtracting from" mean something different than you're alluding to here. Laws always require interpretation. Interpretation does not constitute "adding/subtracting." Jesus is interpreting. Therefore, not sinning.

Really?

What was added or subtracted?

 

[CMike]

Originally Posted by CMike
That is another example of jesus adding or subtracting from the law.

G-D allows for divorce. He speaks about the laws of it in the Torah.

Yep, the creator of Jesus didn't know the Torah, did he?

What? :cover:

 

[CMike]

Deuteronomy - Chapter 13 (Parshah Re'eh) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

2. If there will arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of a dream, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,

3. and the sign or the wonder of which he spoke to you happens, [and he] says, "Let us go after other gods which you have not known, and let us worship them,"

4. you shall not heed the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream; for the Lord, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul.

5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him.

6. And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst.

Clearly jesus was not a god known to the jews.

 

[roger1440]

Wasn't that the godfather?

You were close. It's Alice Cooper with Slash

[youtube]aCtu7A9WGKs[/youtube]
Alice Cooper - Vengeance Is Mine - YouTube

 

[ChristineES]

There persons are three distinct entities. Therefore, you are worshipping three gods. This is directly contradictory to what G-D said.

There is one thing you are forgetting. Jesus didn't teach the Trinity. The Bible doesn't actually teach the trinity in either the Tanakh or in the Christian scriptures.