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Italian writer against women choosing the bear: hating men has become fashionable

Kfox

Well-Known Member
It is about specific behavior. It's about sexual harassment and assault and rape. It's about creepy behavior in those areas. It's about the ways our society supports this type of behavior by men.
I said it is not about a (1) specific behavior, you objected and said it was; then you go on to list multiple bad behaviors it is supposed to be about. See what you did there?
Who would have listed it?
People like you who claim it is about a specific behavior
You didn't address the actual point. Women still choosing to live in society with men and still interact with them does not indicate that women are more afraid of bears. It indicates exactly what you say here. Trying to move away from our society to avoid all contact with men would be nearly impossible and would require an immense change in their lives. Living away from bears is the default.
No; if women were as afraid of men as you are suggesting, there would be no moving away, they would not have been living with us in the first place
You agree there are plenty of examples of this. So, do you agree with yourself, or do you reject your claim?
I never agreed there were examples of this.
Great. It still doesn't work. The first thing is they'd have to have daily experiences where only Black people treated them a certain way.
No; all it takes is for someone to have one experience and to speak on that experience. Are you saying the women who fear men more than the bear are women who are raped and assaulted by men on a daily basis?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I said it is not about a (1) specific behavior, you objected and said it was; then you go on to list multiple bad behaviors it is supposed to be about. See what you did there?
Yes, I explained that it's about a specific behavior. I'm not sure what you think separating creepy, harassing behavior into sub-categories proves.
People like you who claim it is about a specific behavior
Who are these people? That's what I'm asking. You said "they would have listed it". So, who exactly is the "they" there?
No; if women were as afraid of men as you are suggesting, there would be no moving away, they would not have been living with us in the first place
Nope, sorry. You're suggesting that if women were truly afraid of men, they wouldn't live in society where they had to interact with them. Well, women live in our society. To avoid men, they'd have to move away from society and men. That's just kind of how it works. Claiming "they wouldn't have to move away" makes no sense.

But you're also just distracting from the point. As I pointed out, men are still essential for society at this point. Women need them to procreate (generally speaking). Women are still attracted to them (generally speaking). They still make up half of society. Bears are unnecessary. The vast majority of people live their wholes lives without ever interacting with a bear.
I never agreed there were examples of this.
I already provided the quote. In other words, you're now disagreeing with yourself from a few days ago. That makes constructive discussion pretty tough.
No; all it takes is for someone to have one experience and to speak on that experience. Are you saying the women who fear men more than the bear are women who are raped and assaulted by men on a daily basis?
Nope. If a person is assaulted by a Black person, that in no way justifies them being generally afraid of Black people.

Women in general are treated badly by men on a daily basis. That can be rape and sexual assault. It can also be harassment or similar creepy behavior.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Yes, I explained that it's about a specific behavior. I'm not sure what you think separating creepy, harassing behavior into sub-categories proves.
You also said sexual harassment, assault, and rape. Those are different categories. So how many categories are part of this claim you are making?
Who are these people? That's what I'm asking. You said "they would have listed it". So, who exactly is the "they" there?
The women who claim they fear men more than they fear wild bears
Nope, sorry. You're suggesting that if women were truly afraid of men, they wouldn't live in society where they had to interact with them.
Yes.
Well, women live in our society.
That’s because they don’t fear men the way you say they do
To avoid men, they'd have to move away from society and men.
They would have their own society
That's just kind of how it works. Claiming "they wouldn't have to move away" makes no sense.
I never said that.
But you're also just distracting from the point. As I pointed out, men are still essential for society at this point. Women need them to procreate (generally speaking). Women are still attracted to them (generally speaking). They still make up half of society. Bears are unnecessary.
No; if men were as dangerous as you say, women would not be attracted to them, and they would not want to procreate with them.
I already provided the quote. In other words, you're now disagreeing with yourself from a few days ago. That makes constructive discussion pretty tough.
I said; there are plenty of examples in the media of men behaving badly
You said; “men in general treat women badly and feel free to harass them or worse.
Do you understand the difference between those two statements?
Nope. If a person is assaulted by a Black person, that in no way justifies them being generally afraid of Black people.
And if a woman is assaulted by a man, that in no way justifies her being generally afraid of all men. Do you agree?
Women in general are treated badly by men on a daily basis. That can be rape and sexual assault. It can also be harassment or similar creepy behavior.
Just so I am understanding you correctly; when you say “women in general” are you talking about every single woman in the US is treated badly every single day? Are you seriously trying to make such an absurd point? Or do you mean something different.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
You also said sexual harassment, assault, and rape. Those are different categories. So how many categories are part of this claim you are making?
Nope. They're all part of the same thing. Again, separating them into unnecessary categories is odd, and I'm curious as to what you think it proves.
The women who claim they fear men more than they fear wild bears
The women who answered "the bear" to this question? They do list the specific reasons. They've been brought up here many times. They're brought up every time this topic is discussed.
Yes.

That’s because they don’t fear men the way you say they do
You do realize just repeating something false doesn't make it true, right? I've already explained why this isn't true. It's because human society is still based on the interaction of men and women. Maybe one of these times this point will get through.
They would have their own society
Nope.
I never said that.
You did, just above. Please don't resort to lying about what you said in previous posts.
No; if men were as dangerous as you say, women would not be attracted to them, and they would not want to procreate with them.
Nope. Sorry, none of this follows logic, no matter how many times you repeat it.
I said; there are plenty of examples in the media of men behaving badly
You said; “men in general treat women badly and feel free to harass them or worse.
Do you understand the difference between those two statements?
There is none. You said there are plenty of examples of the phenomenon. So, you're now disagreeing with yourself from a few days ago. A little consistency would be nice.
And if a woman is assaulted by a man, that in no way justifies her being generally afraid of all men. Do you agree?
Correct. If a woman is assaulted one time by one man, and there are no other instances of her experiencing bad behavior from men and no society that supports and encourages that kind of behavior from men. Then her being wary of all men would not be justified.
Just so I am understanding you correctly; when you say “women in general” are you talking about every single woman in the US is treated badly every single day? Are you seriously trying to make such an absurd point? Or do you mean something different.
Speaking of absurd points, you can't honestly be asking if "women in general" = "every single woman every day".
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
The women who answered "the bear" to this question? They do list the specific reasons. They've been brought up here many times. They're brought up every time this topic is discussed.
Then let them live somewhere where there are no men
You do realize just repeating something false doesn't make it true, right? I've already explained why this isn't true. It's because human society is still based on the interaction of men and women. Maybe one of these times this point will get through.
And as I said before, if men were as violent against women as you pretend they are, human society would not be able to last. The fact that we are still here proves you wrong. The OP was right.
Nope. Sorry, none of this follows logic, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Its perfectly logical; if women were afraid they might die when mating with a man, why would she mate with a man?
There is none.
There is a difference. If there are 150 million men in the country, and the media shows 001% of those men behaving badly, that 001% of 150 million still constitutes plenty of examples; but it is not enough to constitute a general behavior of men.
Correct. If a woman is assaulted one time by one man, and there are no other instances of her experiencing bad behavior from men and no society that supports and encourages that kind of behavior from men. Then her being wary of all men would not be justified.
Can you answer the question I asked without adding to it in an effort to change context? Let's try it again; "if a woman is assaulted by a man, that in no way justifies her being generally afraid of all men. Do you agree?"
Speaking of absurd points, you can't honestly be asking if "women in general" = "every single woman every day".
Then what does it mean? What do you mean when you say "women in general"? 50%? 60%? And what does daily mean if not every day?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Then let them live somewhere where there are no men
Sure, that's the answer. Not "get men to stop behaving so badly".
And as I said before, if men were as violent against women as you pretend they are, human society would not be able to last. The fact that we are still here proves you wrong. The OP was right.
that doesn't follow at all.

1) I'm not the one pretending here. I'm engaging with facts.

2) You keep portraying is a "violence", as if it's always the most Hollywood version of rape there is. It's a lot more than that.

3) Human society has lasted for thousands of years. In a lot of those societies for a long time, men were even worse than they are now. Human societies and women can endure a lot of things. That doesn't mean they should.
Its perfectly logical; if women were afraid they might die when mating with a man, why would she mate with a man?
First of all, I'll go ahead and avoid "mate" here. Second, women aren't afraid they might die when having sex with a man. They're afraid a man might sexually assault or rape them. If you're going to continue to reply, at least put a little bit of thought into it, please.
There is a difference. If there are 150 million men in the country, and the media shows 001% of those men behaving badly, that 001% of 150 million still constitutes plenty of examples; but it is not enough to constitute a general behavior of men.
Ah, so "a whole lot of examples" doesn't display a trend to you. Even despite the fact that, if you're seeing that many examples, you're clearly not seeing all of the instances. Generally, the way it works is, if you can see constant and overwhelming amount of evidence, that shows a general trend. I'd be happy to explain in more detail how that works.
Can you answer the question I asked without adding to it in an effort to change context? Let's try it again; "if a woman is assaulted by a man, that in no way justifies her being generally afraid of all men. Do you agree?"
I already answered this. I then pointed out that it's not what we're talking about. It's comparable to your example of the racist person and the one-time assault by a Black person. Neither are similar to what women actually face in reality, which is what I was explaining, after I answered your question directly.
Then what does it mean? What do you mean when you say "women in general"? 50%? 60%? And what does daily mean if not every day?
I mean "women in general" and "daily". I'm not all that interested in explaining basic terminology, but yes, neither of those mean "every single woman without exception" and "every single day without exception". Kind of like "women in general find Brad Pitt attractive". That doesn't mean every single one does, or that they do every minute of the day.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Sure, that's the answer. Not "get men to stop behaving so badly".
We are already doing that. Remember that . Remember the "many examples of men behaving badly" from the media I spoke of earlier? Those examples is part of the effort to stop men from behaving badly. Unfortunately there is not as much effort to stop women from behaving badly; but that's a different conversation
that doesn't follow at all.

1) I'm not the one pretending here. I'm engaging with facts.
No you are not. There are no facts here, this idea that the majority of women fear men more then they do wild bears is not based on any facts.
2) You keep portraying is a "violence", as if it's always the most Hollywood version of rape there is. It's a lot more than that.
So now you're just making stuff up about me.
3) Human society has lasted for thousands of years. In a lot of those societies for a long time, men were even worse than they are now. Human societies and women can endure a lot of things. That doesn't mean they should.
But in today's society women have the ability to leave so they don't have to endure it; where as before they didn't have that option.
First of all, I'll go ahead and avoid "mate" here.
If not mating, what do you call it? Because if I recall correctly it was YOU who brought up the fact that women are sexually attracted to men, women choose to have sex and procreate with men; so if that is not mating, what do you call it?
Second, women aren't afraid they might die when having sex with a man. They're afraid a man might sexually assault or rape them.
So..... why would a woman go to a man for sex, if she is afraid he might sexually assault or rape her?
Ah, so "a whole lot of examples" doesn't display a trend to you.
No.
Even despite the fact that, if you're seeing that many examples, you're clearly not seeing all of the instances. Generally, the way it works is, if you can see constant and overwhelming amount of evidence, that shows a general trend. I'd be happy to explain in more detail how that works.
If you want to talk about trends, those trends work against you because women are much more empowered today than ever before, there is much more effort to vilify rape and sexually assault than ever before, there are many safe spaces for women where they can go to in order to get away from an abusive man that didn't exist before, and the list goes on. So if you wanna talk about trends, your argument becomes even more obviously wrong.
I already answered this. I then pointed out that it's not what we're talking about. It's comparable to your example of the racist person and the one-time assault by a Black person. Neither are similar to what women actually face in reality, which is what I was explaining, after I answered your question directly.
So how many times is a woman required to be assaulted by a man before she is justified in labeling men in general as dangerous, and how many times is a white person required to be assaulted by a black person before he is justified in labeling black people in general as dangerous? 10 times? 100 times? more?
I mean "women in general" and "daily". I'm not all that interested in explaining basic terminology,
And that's your problem. When you make absurd claims and refuse to address details, it gives the impression your claims are hyperbole rather than actually realities, so we don't know if you should be taken seriously or not.
but yes, neither of those mean "every single woman without exception" and "every single day without exception".
By definition; "daily" means every single day. If you meant something else, you should have used a different word.
As far as "women in general" I never said it means every single woman, that's just some stuff you made up in order to avoid answering my question. I asked what percentage of women constitutes "women in general" in your view. Care to answer my question?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
We are already doing that. Remember that . Remember the "many examples of men behaving badly" from the media I spoke of earlier? Those examples is part of the effort to stop men from behaving badly.
OK, then why are you so against this effort to point out men behaving badly, so as to raise awareness of the problem you say is already being worked on?
Unfortunately there is not as much effort to stop women from behaving badly; but that's a different conversation
Yes, a conversation about a problem that doesn't exist is a different conversation.
No you are not. There are no facts here, this idea that the majority of women fear men more then they do wild bears is not based on any facts.
We haven't even established it's a majority. What we've established is that a lot of women are wary enough of men that they would choose to come across a bear in the woods, rather than a strange man. That's based on the fact that so many women have answered this question the way they have.
So now you're just making stuff up about me.
No. I'm just pointing out what you're doing. If you don't like it being pointed out, maybe stop doing it. You keep focusing specifically on "violence", in order to paint it a certain way.
But in today's society women have the ability to leave so they don't have to endure it; where as before they didn't have that option.
They've always had that option. It's just a truly terrible option. "Go live by yourself outside of society. Give up everything you know. Don't have kids. Don't ever have sex with a man again. Don't live in a modern society".
If not mating, what do you call it? Because if I recall correctly it was YOU who brought up the fact that women are sexually attracted to men, women choose to have sex and procreate with men; so if that is not mating, what do you call it?

So..... why would a woman go to a man for sex, if she is afraid he might sexually assault or rape her?
Do you just not understand what sexual assault and rape are? So, there's something called consent. Here's how it works.

A man want to act in a sexual way toward a woman, whether by touching her, kissing her or full sex. To do any of that, he is supposed to get her informed consent. If she gives that, great. If not, then he is supposed to not engage in any such behavior toward her.

Most women like to have sexual/romantic contact with a man, but obviously, only when they consent to it.
Then you should learn about how this stuff works. As I pointed out, a huge data set can indicate an overall trend.
If you want to talk about trends, those trends work against you because women are much more empowered today than ever before, there is much more effort to vilify rape and sexually assault than ever before, there are many safe spaces for women where they can go to in order to get away from an abusive man that didn't exist before, and the list goes on. So if you wanna talk about trends, your argument becomes even more obviously wrong.
I have no idea why you think that "works against me". Yes, things have gotten better regarding this topic. So? The problem still persists. That's the whole point of this question, that women are still extremely wary of men in general due to their constant bad interactions with them. The trend toward a better environment doesn't negate that.
So how many times is a woman required to be assaulted by a man before she is justified in labeling men in general as dangerous, and how many times is a white person required to be assaulted by a black person before he is justified in labeling black people in general as dangerous? 10 times? 100 times? more?
I always love this type of question. As if, because you can't put an exact number on something, it's therefore void. The answer is "more than once". It's entirely understandable for a woman who has been assaulted to have trauma and for that trauma to manifest in ways that might not be fully rational. But being assaulted one time with zero other context (like the stuff I mentioned, the patriarchy, all the other bad interactions, etc.) doesn't justify being wary of all men, when speaking rationally.
And that's your problem. When you make absurd claims and refuse to address details, it gives the impression your claims are hyperbole rather than actually realities, so we don't know if you should be taken seriously or not.
Haha, yes, of course, I'm the one engaging in hyperbole here. Look, the terms I gave are good enough to make my point. your hyperbolic question about them is not one anyone should take seriously.
By definition; "daily" means every single day. If you meant something else, you should have used a different word.
As far as "women in general" I never said it means every single woman, that's just some stuff you made up in order to avoid answering my question. I asked what percentage of women constitutes "women in general" in your view. Care to answer my question?
Yet again, this is a dishonest tactic. You don't have to assign exact numbers to things to make a point. The lack of precise statistics doesn't negate the point.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
OK, then why are you so against this effort to point out men behaving badly, so as to raise awareness of the problem you say is already being worked on?
I have no problem with pointing out bad behavior, I have a problem with unproven claims like here where (as the thread title points out) hating men becomes fashionable
Yes, a conversation about a problem that doesn't exist is a different conversation.
If you are under the (mis)understanding that there aren't plenty of women behaving badly, you are delusional.
We haven't even established it's a majority. What we've established is that a lot of women are wary enough of men that they would choose to come across a bear in the woods, rather than a strange man. That's based on the fact that so many women have answered this question the way they have.
Have YOU ever been to the woods? How many women have you ever seen in the woods without the company of at least one man?
Do you just not understand what sexual assault and rape are? So, there's something called consent. Here's how it works.

A man want to act in a sexual way toward a woman, whether by touching her, kissing her or full sex. To do any of that, he is supposed to get her informed consent. If she gives that, great. If not, then he is supposed to not engage in any such behavior toward her.
Great! Now apply that consent rule to the topic at hand; which is a woman approaching a man because SHE want's to have sex.
Then you should learn about how this stuff works. As I pointed out, a huge data set can indicate an overall trend.
And the trend is things are getting better for women; not worse.
I always love this type of question. As if, because you can't put an exact number on something, it's therefore void. The answer is "more than once".
More than once? Great! Now apply that to race; if a white person is assaulted by a black person more than once, does this justify him judging all black people as dangerous? If not, why gender but not race?
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
I have no problem with pointing out bad behavior, I have a problem with unproven claims like here where (as the thread title points out) hating men becomes fashionable
I too have a problem with unproven claims like "hating men is becoming fashionable". I'm glad we agree on that.
If you are under the (mis)understanding that there aren't plenty of women behaving badly, you are delusional.
If you insist on "all lives matter"ing this, then at least start your own thread about your separate topic.
Have YOU ever been to the woods? How many women have you ever seen in the woods without the company of at least one man?
I've been my fair share. I have no idea because I don't pay attention to these things. But you're welcome to share what you think is the relevance of this.
Great! Now apply that consent rule to the topic at hand; which is a woman approaching a man because SHE want's to have sex.
Why is that the topic at hand? What about that topic are you saying is relevant?
And the trend is things are getting better for women; not worse.
And? Things got better for enslaved people in the U.S. after the Civil War. There was still a whole lot of further work to do, though. Things got better for Black people in the 1960s. There was still a whole lot more work to do. "Things are improving" doesn't mean things are good. It also doesn't mean we shouldn't continue trying to improve.
More than once? Great! Now apply that to race; if a white person is assaulted by a black person more than once, does this justify him judging all black people as dangerous? If not, why gender but not race?
And this is why I added in all those other pieces of context that you vehemently wanted to throw away. That was the entire point of including them in my answer.

Here's what's happening:

Men behave badly toward women on a daily basis. This includes all kinds of creepy behavior, from catcalling to other forms of sexual harassment to sexual assault and rape. Women deal with this constantly. Our society encourages this behavior. Women have a hard time being believed when they report these things. It's incredibly difficult to even charge someone with rape, much less convict them. And then when they do get convicted, there are too many examples of leniency, like Brock Turner (convicted of 3 counts of felony sexual assault and served 3 months in prison).

They don't have one or two bad experiences and then generalize an entire group of people based on that alone.

And when I said "more than once", you ignored my actual point, which was that the question was disingenuous to begin with. There is no specific number to put on it. That's why I said "more than once". Requiring a specific number in order to make the valid is a way to try to dismiss it without addressing it.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
I've been my fair share. I have no idea because I don't pay attention to these things.
Then I ask that you pay attention; go to the woods and tell me how many times you see a woman hanging out in the woods without a male with her.
Why is that the topic at hand? What about that topic are you saying is relevant?
YOU are the one who said women hang around men because they are attracted to them and they desire men for sex/procreation
And this is why I added in all those other pieces of context that you vehemently wanted to throw away. That was the entire point of including them in my answer.

Here's what's happening:

Men behave badly toward women on a daily basis.
And black people behave badly toward white people on a daily basis
This includes all kinds of creepy behavior, from catcalling to other forms of sexual harassment to sexual assault and rape. Women deal with this constantly.
This includes name calling, racist attitudes, assault, even murder.
Our society encourages this behavior. Women have a hard time being believed when they report these things. I
Society encourages this racist behavior also. So why are you okay with gender bigotry, but not racial bigotry?
 
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Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Then I ask that you pay attention; go to the woods and tell me how many times you see a woman hanging out in the woods without a male with her.
Then I ask that you explain why you think this is relevant.
YOU are the one who said women hang around men because they are attracted to them and they desire men for sex!
Riiiight...so, I'm still waiting for the relevance of your point here. I explained consent to you. Then you said to apply that to women wanting sex from men. You'll have to explain your point there.
And black people behave badly toward white people on a daily basis
And white people behave badly toward Black people, and blue-eyed people behave badly... And? What is the pattern you're pointing out that's comparable to the dynamic between men and women?
This includes name calling, racist attitudes, assault, even murder.
What includes that?
Society encourages this racist behavior also. So why are you okay with gender bigotry, but not racial bigotry?
It's true. Society does encourage racist behavior. I bet if you asked Black people if they'd choose a bear or a cop, they'd choose the bear, too. I'm not OK with any bigotry. Being wary of unfamiliar men due to a lifetime of bad experiences with men isn't bigotry. It's a natural reaction to experiences. I'm not OK with racism either. That's why I support BLM and actions to work against systemic racism.

Listen. It all comes down to this:

Women were asked whether they'd choose a man or a bear to come across while alone in the woods. A lot of them chose the bear. What that tells us is that women have such bad experiences with men that they'd choose to take their chances with a bear in the wild than with a man.

Now, what you do from there is accept that, take it in and reflect on what that means for our society and women's situation.
What you don't do is tell women they're bigoted and twist into knots trying to come up with arguments that attempt to dismiss the women's concerns.

They're telling you about a problem. Just listen to them. You already acknowledged there is a problem and that it's being worked on. So, just support that work and oppose that problem. That's all.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I have no problem with pointing out bad behavior, I have a problem with unproven claims like here where (as the thread title points out) hating men becomes fashionable
For the hundredth time, it's not about hating men. I love my husband. I love my nephew. I love my brother-in-law. There are lots of men that women love and want to be around.

If you are under the (mis)understanding that there aren't plenty of women behaving badly, you are delusional.

Have YOU ever been to the woods? How many women have you ever seen in the woods without the company of at least one man?
It's like you're trying with all your might to miss the point.

You will find my sister and I, quite frequently, hiking through the woods.
Great! Now apply that consent rule to the topic at hand; which is a woman approaching a man because SHE want's to have sex.

And the trend is things are getting better for women; not worse.

More than once? Great! Now apply that to race; if a white person is assaulted by a black person more than once, does this justify him judging all black people as dangerous? If not, why gender but not race?
Why are you trying so hard to make this a race thing????
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Then I ask that you explain why you think this is relevant.

Riiiight...so, I'm still waiting for the relevance of your point here. I explained consent to you. Then you said to apply that to women wanting sex from men. You'll have to explain your point there.

And white people behave badly toward Black people, and blue-eyed people behave badly... And? What is the pattern you're pointing out that's comparable to the dynamic between men and women?

What includes that?

It's true. Society does encourage racist behavior. I bet if you asked Black people if they'd choose a bear or a cop, they'd choose the bear, too. I'm not OK with any bigotry. Being wary of unfamiliar men due to a lifetime of bad experiences with men isn't bigotry. It's a natural reaction to experiences. I'm not OK with racism either. That's why I support BLM and actions to work against systemic racism.

Listen. It all comes down to this:

Women were asked whether they'd choose a man or a bear to come across while alone in the woods. A lot of them chose the bear. What that tells us is that women have such bad experiences with men that they'd choose to take their chances with a bear in the wild than with a man.

Now, what you do from there is accept that, take it in and reflect on what that means for our society and women's situation.
What you don't do is tell women they're bigoted and twist into knots trying to come up with arguments that attempt to dismiss the women's concerns.

They're telling you about a problem. Just listen to them. You already acknowledged there is a problem and that it's being worked on. So, just support that work and oppose that problem. That's all.
\End thread.

Wish I could have winner frubal'ed this twice.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
For the hundredth time, it's not about hating men. I love my husband. I love my nephew. I love my brother-in-law. There are lots of men that women love and want to be around.


It's like you're trying with all your might to miss the point.
That's exactly what's happening.
You will find my sister and I, quite frequently, hiking through the woods.

Why are you trying so hard to make this a race thing????
Because it's a way to "all lives matter" it, just like with the "women behave badly too!" thing.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
That's exactly what's happening.
Agreed.

I gave up responding because I'm not sure how else to make the point anymore. And you're doing an amazing job anyway. I'm really enjoying reading your posts. You get it! And it's awesome.
Because it's a way to "all lives matter" it, just like with the "women behave badly too!" thing.
Ah, I see now. Blah. Not really an argument.
 
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