mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Do you actually think that your claims are the truth?
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Italy and Hungary oppose warfare supply to Ukraine
- Thread starter Estro Felino
- Start date
Do you actually think that your claims are the truth?
Ordinary Americans tend to not want wars, unless the government and media tell them there is a threat - and then they believe it.
It's not due to any intrinsic desire for war, but rooted more in xenophobia and widespread ignorance about the outside world, which makes it easy for the government to make Americans afraid of it.
The main trouble the government seems to be having now is that their propaganda has been too effective. From the Cold War, the War on Drugs, and the War on Terror (triggered by 9/11), the government has successfully convinced Americans that there are immense dangers from the outside world. The government has been so good at convincing Americans that many have gotten too scared to where it has had a deleterious effect on the cohesion and political harmony within America.
America is definitely not a monolith - especially not lately. But I've observed how a critical mass in public opinion can shift in one direction or another. As I noted above, American warlike propaganda has been so effective over the long-term that entire generations have been affected by it. But since we are not a monolith, public reactions to it have been varied and disparate, including one of outright defiance as seen during the Vietnam War era. But even that didn't really last. Once Nixon was out and the US pulled out of Vietnam, any kind of real dissident peace movement in the US had the wind knocked out of its sails.
But I would still maintain that it's not due to any actual desire to make war (which is where some of the peaceniks got the wrong idea and went down the wrong track). The problem rests in gross misperceptions and misconceptions of the outside world fostered by our government and media.
Nobody would be so masochistic and suicidal to attack the USA.
I mean...look at Japan. How it ended up.
Because the world has become multipolar and filled with tensions. But with very good diplomacy and bargaining, I believe the risk of world war can be reduced to zero.
I know that.
I am sorry if I ever gave the impression I was blaming the American citizens.
I criticize the warmongering élites in my country, mainly. But they do that warmongering very slyly and discreetly because they know that the Italian press would practically ostracize them with a character assassination.
They are very cunning and sneaky in a very negative sense. They preach war and then they pretend they never did that.
Most US servicepeople are just ordinary Americans. I have family members and friends counted among them.
Those about the NATO? Absolutely.
My country is in the NATO too, so I am condemning my country too.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yeah, then we will never agree because I then don't believe in the truth like you.
And the Japanese likely knew how it would end up, as Yamamoto warned them. But it was a gambit that some thought they could win.
Prior to December 7, 1941, Americans were resistant to the idea of going to war. By attacking us, it propelled the entire nation into an international war fever that never really went away, even to this day. It was the Japanese who first awakened the "sleeping giant," and we've been swaggering around the world like a drunken bull in a China shop ever since.
I think the main problem in the West is that we've wanted to have our cake and eat it, too.
It's like at the end of "Catch 22," where the military commanders are saying "Like us." Our government exerts an extraordinary effort to try to make Americans and the outside world believe that they're so noble and enlightened, dedicated only to world freedom, justice, democracy, and human rights. They want the world to "like us." But it sometimes comes across like a school bully who says, "If you don't be my friend, I'll beat you up."
I don't take offense, as I often blame American citizens myself, for their voting choices and becoming so easily misled. I've been exposed and acculturated to the same basic ideals and perceptions as most Americans around me, and I've been able to observe how shifts in opinion can come about and the kinds of rhetoric used to manipulate how people see and react to the world, as well as domestic political affairs.
A lot of the internal dissension within America also tends to revolve around conflicting ideas of what America actually is. American exceptionalism, Manifest Destiny, Leader of the Free World, and similar concepts portray America as something larger than life. I think if we just came back down to earth and saw ourselves as ordinary human beings, a lot of these problems would go away. But if we insist on being Captain America, righter of all the wrongs of the world, all the while wanting the rest of the world to "like us," then we'll see more pitfalls and consequences like we're seeing now.
USA has no interest into forcing Italy
to support Ukraine's self defense.
Problem is that Italy might side with
Putin....you know...the way they sided
with Hitler. Italy isn't a reliable partner.
USA destroyed Libya...Italy's strategic ally...
Is that what you call a reliable partner?
I call that backstabbing.
Destroyed means "devastated".
Obama was the worst POTUS in the history of the USA...and the man who aided and abetted him was his Secretary of State...who was even worse.
Putin is 100,000 times better than Obama.
Secret Chief
Degrow!
I stand corrected. Dunno where I got that from.
Your judgement is dubious, based upon your following claims.....
So it is America who decides Italy's allies?
What are we? A colony? Confess, dear sir. Liberate yourself...you will feel lighter after you drop that.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Yeah, you keep claiming that "millions" agree with you.
I'm not seeing any evidence of that claim.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
For the bazzilionth time.
NATO didn't go on any solo adventures in Libya.
The operation in Libya was a UN operation, the implementation of security council resolution 1973.
NATO merely led that operation. It wasn't decided by them, it wasn't some solo mission.
The security council from the UN voted on a resolution and it past. NATO then received the mandate from the UN to implement it.
This is public information.
Yes, it has nothing to do with Ukraine. Russia didn't act on behalf of a UN Security Council resolution. If anything, the UN condemned Russia for the invasion. The security council didn't because permanent member Russia voted against it (duh).
But by and large, the UN condemned it.
So these aren't comparable in any way, shape or form. Except in @Estro Felino 's lala-land, off course.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Right, right....
SO....
EU = bad
USA = bad
NATO = bad
UN = bad
Security Council = bad
But Putin and other (wannabe) dictators = a-okay.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Jumping ship again, I see.
Whatever you can to not having to acknowledge and own up to your mistakes ha?
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
As usual, you posting the video had nothing to do with what was being talked about.
Ironically, what was being talked about also had nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
So you even managed to deflect from the very topic you were trying to use to deflect from the actual thread topic.
Classic.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
It isn't.
As the Italian professors specialized in constitutional law clearly explained in the article you rejected out of hand, pretending to understand the constitution better then he did.