Italy's far right set to win election

[Estro Felino]

Anyway I can't believe the amount of people calling Meloni a fascist..

Real fascists are socialists.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't think taxing the wealthy solves the economic problems. It is nothing compared to what a State really needs. And what a State really needs is nationalizing the wer?Central Bank, getting rid of the private bankers who have stolen the Seigniorage from the European nations.

Unfortunately, that just transfers the corruption to the state.
How can you be so sure that they won't abuse their power?

 

[Yerda]

Real fascists are socialists.

Socialism is international, class-based struggle against the power of capital. Race, sex, gender, religion, are all irrelevant in the fight for justice.

Fascism is based on nativism, xenophobia, heirarchy and capital. Race, sex, gender and religion mark who is 'us' and who is 'them'.

These are incompatible.

 

[Yerda]

Man, it's so strange that Europe's far right are so happy about Meloni. Don't they know she's the leader of a mainstream conservative party?

 

[Estro Felino]

Socialism is international, class-based struggle against the power of capital. Race, sex, gender, religion, are all irrelevant in the fight for justice.

Fascism is based on nativism, xenophobia, heirarchy and capital. Race, sex, gender and religion mark who is 'us' and who is 'them'.

These are incompatible.

I think American democrats are wolves in sheep's clothing. They side with banking elites, they are wealthy people who despise the populace and pretend they side with minorities, but they don't.


What has Biden ever done for the poor? Nothing. And he will do nothing. He is just member of a lounge-loving and carefree elite.

B. M. aka Duce
1) expropriated, seized the lands from the aristocrats in the thirties and gave them to the poor.
It's history. It's all documented. Lex Serpieri.
2) started the process of creation of free universal healthcare that resulted in the creation of the National Health Service, in the seventies.
3) created the first pension system for the retired.
4) created the first public insurance system for injuries at the workplace.
5) saved so many factories and industries from bankruptcy.
When the Americans quit, no fascist institute was touched. The fascist institutes were strengthened.

So...I do know what fascism was. Because it was socialism, with elements of nationalism and unfortunately, intolerance towards minorities.
I will never defend it...because I am against 1) war 2) imperialism 3) intolerance
But it was socialism that made Italy rise from the Middle Ages.

 

[Estro Felino]

Unfortunately, that just transfers the corruption to the state.
How can you be so sure that they won't abuse their power?

I trust the people who serve the State.

 

[Rival]

Man, it's so strange that Europe's far right are so happy about Meloni. Don't they know she's the leader of a mainstream conservative party?

What would you consider mainstream rightism? I mean culturally, not fiscally or otherwise. Is there an acceptable way to be culturally right wing?

 

[Secret Chief]

"Giorgia Meloni may have toned down her rhetoric ahead of this election, but a hard core of her Brothers of Italy party remains distinctly extreme. In the run-up to the election, the party suspended a party official for praising Adolf Hitler on social media.

Meloni utterly rejects any link to fascism, but as a teenager she was herself part of the youth wing of a neo-fascist movement created after World War Two by supporters of dead fascist dictator Benito Mussolini.

Brothers of Italy - Fratelli d'Italia - has its roots in that movement and Meloni still embraces an old slogan adopted by Mussolini's fascists: "God, fatherland and family."

"They are a xenophobic party; they are against migration and they are against any rights for the LGBT community," says Prof Leila Simona Talani of King's College London. They are also ultra-conservative on women's social rights, and Meloni has spoken out against "Islamist violence", she says.

The question is whether the party will remain far right."

Italy elections: Giorgia Meloni's right-wing alliance ahead - BBC News


Not far right at all then @Rival. What would be far right to you?

 

[muhammad_isa]

I trust the people who serve the State.

..like Trump or Biden?

 

[Estro Felino]

..like Trump or Biden?

A functioning society is based upon trust.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Refugees are a different category, but most of the immigrants who come here are low-skilled workers who work for little and, from the native pov, make it harder to natives to find work because they're not prepared to work for so little. It's an age old problem. They tend to form ghettoes and not want to nativise.

This line of reasoning is also common among a subset of Saudis and Egyptians who oppose entry of immigrants or low-skilled workers and refugees. A central question when it comes to that is whether enough natives are willing to do specific jobs in the first place. For example, are native Saudis going to work as garbage collectors or cleaners? And if some are, will their numbers be enough to satisfy the country's needs?

The idea that immigrants take natives' jobs assumes that enough natives will want or do those jobs. This isn't always true.

 

[muhammad_isa]

A functioning society is based upon trust.

In the UK, interest rates used to be set by the govt.
When Tony Blair became PM, they gave the central bank that duty, as they didn't want to be associated with it.

In reality, the financial system needs REFORM.
That doesn't mean nationallisation of all the banks..
..it means controlling what they are allowed to do .. imo.

Now, that is by no means an easy task, particularly in this day and age.
..but it would be a start to actually limit what interest rates could be charged.

Not many people will agree with me, I know. They are too frightened to be "left behind". Even China and Russia have embraced Capitalism, when it comes to "money markets".

 

[Lyndon]

This line of reasoning is also common among a subset of Saudis and Egyptians who oppose entry of immigrants or low-skilled workers and refugees. A central question when it comes to that is whether enough natives are willing to do specific jobs in the first place. For example, are native Saudis going to work as garbage collectors or cleaners? And if some are, will their numbers be enough to satisfy the country's needs?

The idea that immigrants take natives' jobs assumes that enough natives will want or do those jobs. This isn't always true.

especially in America!!

 

[Rival]

This line of reasoning is also common among a subset of Saudis and Egyptians who oppose entry of immigrants or low-skilled workers and refugees. A central question when it comes to that is whether enough natives are willing to do specific jobs in the first place. For example, are native Saudis going to work as garbage collectors or cleaners? And if some are, will their numbers be enough to satisfy the country's needs?

The idea that immigrants take natives' jobs assumes that enough natives will want or do those jobs. This isn't always true.

Yes, the natives will do those jobs and do. But they ask better pay. Agency work is the main offender here. Agencies employ folks, put them into various kinds of work so they're not directly employed by the employer, they make less money and have fewer worker protections, and so companies hire them. All of the agencies where I formerly lived were foreign and only took on foreigners.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Yes, the natives will do those jobs and do. But they ask better pay. Agency work is the main offender here. Agencies employ folks, put them into various kinds of work so they're not directly employed by the employer, they make less money and have fewer worker protections, and so companies hire them. All of the agencies where I formerly lived were foreign and only took on foreigners.

Well, is that because of immigration or because of agencies looking to exploit cheap labor? Perhaps regulating the agencies and enforcing minimum wages more properly could be the solution instead of banning immigration without addressing the core problem.

Nevertheless, blanket immigration bans also often target specific religious groups rather than low-skilled immigrants. More often than not, they seem more political than economic in nature.

 

[Estro Felino]

In the UK, interest rates used to be set by the govt.
When Tony Blair became PM, they gave the central bank that duty, as they didn't want to be associated with it.

In reality, the financial system needs REFORM.
That doesn't mean nationallisation of all the banks..
..it means controlling what they are allowed to do .. imo.

Now, that is by no means an easy task, particularly in this day and age.
..but it would be a start to actually limit what interest rates could be charged.

Not many people will agree with me, I know. They are too frightened to be "left behind". Even China and Russia have embraced Capitalism, when it comes to "money markets".

I meant nationalization of the Central Bank only.

 

[Rival]

Well, is that because of immigration or because of agencies looking to exploit cheap labor? Perhaps regulating them more properly could be the solution instead of banning immigration without addressing the core problem.

Nevertheless, blanket immigration bans also often target specific religious groups rather than low-skilled immigrants. More often than not, they seem more political than economic in nature.

The whole point of agencies is basically less regulation, so both the low-skill immigration and agencies are problematic. It exploits foreigners and it disenfranchises the natives. Stop both and solve the problem.

 

[Yerda]

I think American democrats are wolves in sheep's clothing. They side with banking elites, they are wealthy people who despise the populace and pretend they side with minorities, but they don't.


What has Biden ever done for the poor? Nothing. And he will do nothing. He is just member of a lounge-loving and carefree elite.

1) Il Duce expropriated, seized the lands from the aristocrats in the thirties and gave them to the poor.
It's history. It's all documented. Lex Serpieri.
2) Il Duce started the process of creation of free universal healthcare that resulted in the creation of the National Health Service, in the seventies.
3) Il Duce created the first pension system for the retired.
4) Il Duce created the first public insurance system for injuries at the workplace.
5) Il Duce saved so many factories and industries from bankruptcy.
When Americans quit, no fascist institute was touched. The fascist institutes were strengthened.

What have the Dems ever done for the populace? Nothing.

So...I do know the history of my own country, and I would like the Italian term fascism not to be misused. Because it was socialism, with elements of nationalism and unfortunately, intolerance towards minorities.

Aye, and Franco made the trains run on time.

The fascists allied your country with the ****ing Nazis. Hunted Jews down and transported them to concentration camps. Murdered actual socialists.

I've no idea what the incompatibility of fascism and socialism has to do with the US Democratic party.

What would you consider mainstream rightism? I mean culturally, not fiscally or otherwise. Is there an acceptable way to be culturally right wing?

I'd suggest not interfering in the lives of others. A conservative should be able to see the value in freedom of others to make their own choices regarding their own bodies and marital status.

How about, not spreading prejudice about immigrants?

Supporting freedom of religion as opposed to demonising Muslims and calling for them to be banned from entering the country. Etc.

You do make a point though. The sort of stuff that was previously only supported publicly by the National Front is common among people calling themselves conservatives.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I meant nationalization of the Central Bank only.

Same thing, in effect.
If you aren't going to reform the system, what changes?

 

[Estro Felino]

Aye, and Franco made the trains run on time.


I've no idea what the incompatibility of fascism and socialism has to do with the US Democratic party.
.

It has to do with it because the Italian Democratic Party (who has lost the elections) is identical to the US Democratic Party. Same alliance with the banking system. Same destructive values.