Its not euthanasia, its suicide.

[The Sum of Awe]

The answer on the face of it seems too obvious (ie in order to be able to humanely end pain and suffering) so perhaps you are asking something else?

I suppose my point is the same as it's been since the beginning: that that isn't a worthy trade for the cons it causes, that by aiding people in killing themselves (when they have functional lives) essentially turns into promoting it. A whole wave of people ready to give up will roll over on their bellies rather than fighting. It makes mental illness become hopeless and a death sentence. Did you see the reddit page I linked where so many people said they wanted to go out like this woman? This is exactly what would happen if this happens more frequently.

Apart from this being completely irrelevant, you should watch some videos on youtube.

I was basically saying that things can appear fine, when they're not. I'm sure society (in George Orwell's 1984) looked fine on a surface level. Allowing functional people to give up on life may look fine on the surface level as well.

 

[The Hammer]

However, in my determination, I'd definitely take your mental health issues into consideration.

And that's where the medical and mental health professionals come in.

 

[McBell]

And that's where the medical and mental health professionals come in.

And in the case presented by the OP that means at the very least two medical doctors and a Euthanasia Determination Council.

I still find it disturbing that some people think they know better than two doctors and the Euthanasia Determination Council based upon nothing more than a half page news article.

 

[We Never Know]

No it's not. Assisted dying is hastening ones ongoing death that is already in process.

Yeah it is.

"Euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide refer to a deliberate action taken with the intention of ending a life to relieve persistent pain"

Euthanasia and assisted suicide: What are they and what do they mean?


Edit...

"What is assisted dying?
There is some debate over exactly what the various terms mean.

But assisted dying is generally used to describe a situation where someone who is terminally ill seeks medical help to obtain lethal drugs which they administer themselves.

What is assisted suicide?​

Assisted suicide is intentionally helping another person to end their life. It can involve people who are not terminally ill.

Providing someone with a lethal dose of sedatives, or helping them go to Switzerland (where assisted suicide is legal), could both be considered assisted suicide.

What is euthanasia?​

Euthanasia is the act of deliberately ending a person's life to relieve suffering, in which a lethal drug is administered by a physician.

It is legal in fewer places than assisted dying or assisted suicide, and patients do not necessarily have to be terminal.

There are two types: voluntary euthanasia, where a patient has given consent, and non-voluntary, where they have not been able to, for example if they are in a coma.

What do assisted dying, assisted suicide and euthanasia mean and what is the law?

Many countries have legalised assisted dying, assisted suicide or euthanasia, which are different.

www.bbc.com

 

[Kathryn]

And that's where the medical and mental health professionals come in.

Of course. No one is perfect, however. Which is one reason why euthanasia is still illegal in the United States.

You know what:? I have heard so much ridiculousness from various "mental health professionals" regarding my brother and my mom that I don't trust most of them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Yeah it is.

"Euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide refer to a deliberate action taken with the intention of ending a life to relieve persistent pain"

Euthanasia and assisted suicide: What are they and what do they mean?

I probably should clarify it's not the method itself but when it's employed which is during the process of death itself brought on by a terminal illness or condition.

 

[We Never Know]

I probably should clarify it's not the method itself but when it's employed which is during the process of death itself brought on by a terminal illness or condition.

See the edit in my post

 

[McBell]

Of course. No one is perfect, however. Which is one reason why euthanasia is still illegal in the United States.

Assisted suicide is legal in 10 jurisdictions in the US: Washington, D.C.[2] and the states of California, Colorado, Oregon, Vermont, New Mexico, Maine,[3] New Jersey,[4] Hawaii, and Washington.[5] The status of assisted suicide is disputed in Montana, though currently authorized per the Montana Supreme Court's ruling in Baxter v. Montana that "nothing in Montana Supreme Court precedent or Montana statutes [indicates] that physician aid in dying is against public policy."[6]​

​

Euthanasia in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Hammer]

I have heard so much ridiculousness from various "mental health professionals" regarding my brother and my mom that I don't trust most of them.

Yeah, you definitely need to do some shopping around. It depends son whether your talking to an MD, LCSW, Therapist, Psychiatrist, Counselor, etc. They are all different professionals and will have varying differences on how they approach and support a person. Distrust is always common when it comes to mental health. I get it. But it's a shame..

 

[Kathryn]

Yeah, you definitely need to do some shopping around. It depends son whether your talking to an MD, LCSW, Therapist, Psychiatrist, Counselor, etc. They are all different professionals and will have varying differences on how they approach and support a person. Distrust is always common when it comes to mental health. I get it. But it's a shame..

It is definitely what I'd call a lagging science. Look, the BRAIN is sick. It can respond well to some medications and not that well to others. My brother's psychiatrist doesn't give any indication of caring for my brother, but his counselor does. It's frustrating.

 

[The Hammer]

It is definitely what I'd call a lagging science. Look, the BRAIN is sick. It can respond well to some medications and not that well to others. My brother's psychiatrist doesn't give any indication of caring for my brother, but his counselor does. It's frustrating.

It's not lagging. It's actually very evidence based. The problem is there are hundreds of treatments and they don't all work with the same success with each individual. (What I mean by this is there are many ways to skin a cat, take anxiety: it could be pills, or therapy, or a combo. There are dozens of meds that may or may not work. Then therapy-wise you've got hypnotherapy, cbt, dbt, talk-therapy, amongst many many others. No single this g is a catch all for everyone)

The psychiatrist isn't their to care, they are there eto and about symptoms and request meds (yes there needs to be a degree of empathy of course). The counselor on the other hand would be directly involved in helping your brother with whatever assistance he is requiring.

I have had therapists, psychiatrists and what not off and on for almost a decade. Some were better than others, but I typically gained a little ground under each.

Edited

 

[Kathryn]

Sorry but I think it is a very lagging science. And I've never heard a drop of empathy from a psychiatrist. I'm not the patient, but I've been very involved in the patients' care.

 

[The Hammer]

Sorry but I think it is a very lagging science. And I've never heard a drop of empathy from a psychiatrist. I'm not the patient, but I've been very involved in the patients' care.

I'm sorry to hear that but that has not been my experience as a patient in several States, and multiple different doctors. May you and your family find the care you need.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm sorry to hear that but that has not been my experience as a patient in several States, and multiple different doctors. May you and your family find the care you need.

Thank you.

 

[Kathryn]

Assisted suicide is legal in 10 jurisdictions in the US: Washington, D.C.[2] and the states of California, Colorado, Oregon, Vermont, New Mexico, Maine,[3] New Jersey,[4] Hawaii, and Washington.[5] The status of assisted suicide is disputed in Montana, though currently authorized per the Montana Supreme Court's ruling in Baxter v. Montana that "nothing in Montana Supreme Court precedent or Montana statutes [indicates] that physician aid in dying is against public policy."[6]​

​

Euthanasia in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

OK. So it's illegal in most of the US states.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is definitely what I'd call a lagging science. Look, the BRAIN is sick. It can respond well to some medications and not that well to others. My brother's psychiatrist doesn't give any indication of caring for my brother, but his counselor does. It's frustrating.

Psychiatrists are just (big pharma approved) drug dealers, that's all. You're lucky to get 5 minutes with them. I didn't start to really recover from my mental health issues until I got off the psych drugs and started using something else. I have a great therapist now, too. (Therapists can be hit or miss.)

I've been dealing with mental healthcare for at least 20 years now, since I was a teen. It's such a joke. I have a bone injury from these pill pushers giving me psych meds that caused grand mal seizures, which made me fall on my shoulder, and it took them 2 years to realize what was causing it. They don't really know how things like antidepressants work, either. I've had multiple doctors over the years admit that to me. (As they prescribed me more of them, of course.)

 

[Mock Turtle]

Cows appear calm before the slaughterhouse.

And probably thinking more than where this comes from.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My goodness you folks make out like the conditions she has are somehow like the mental illness version of childbirth.

None of us here know the conditions she has to deal with it. The article posted here dedicates exactly ONE SENTENCE to her condition.


All I can say is that the law in the Netherlands is quite strict on getting clearance for euthanasia. There is a strict procedure to be followed. And someone with "just a depression" is not going to get clearance.

The fact that she got clearance tells me that whatever the conditions she has to deal with are, will be VERY severe and far beyond the more "common depression" stuff people here are trying to make it out to be.

Someone close to me suffers from chronic psychosis. She doesn't have schizofrenia though. But every some odd years, she has a relapse. She is just now crawling out of a hole again which lasted a year. It's PURE HELL. For her, for the kids, for her husband, her family, her work life,.... everything. It's upsetting, traumatising for everyone involved. I can guarantee you that she would NOT get clearance with the current procedure in place in the Netherlands. Not even by a long shot.

So I can only conclude that the fact that the girl from the OP DID get clearance, her situations must be nothing short of diabolical. And it will have been like that for much much longer then just a year. Likely almost her entire life. With little to no hope of it ever being any different in the future.


I'm just annoyed with how quick people here are to judge her, insult her doctors, insult her family,.... it seems very heartless with zero compassion and zero effort to even try and understand. Or want to understand. There is even ZERO effort to look up more information. To the point that people are even literally saying that they aren't interested in extra information.

I think it's quite unsettling.


People here treat this case as if the woman, along with her doctors, mother and boyfriend, just made a trivial euthanasia decision as if she decided to wear black instead of purple underwear.

It's mindblowing to me.

There are many more people who live with these conditions and are able to live normal lives if given the right kind of help.

You have NO IDEA ABOUT THIS AT ALL because you know EXACTLY ZERO about her conditions nore have you even made ANY effort at all to find out.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

We are discussing the OP; she has 3 conditions that many people live with. They can be managed effectively if one is willing to try.

1. Please review the criteria of the procedure in the netherlands to get clearance for euthanasia. They have been posted plenty of times in this thread.

2. You don't know what conditions she has to live with. All you know is 3 vague terms that are the names of disorders that have a spectrum so enormously big that they range from "mild" to "pure hell".

She can take steps to mitigate that suffering instead of her seeming to wallow in it.

You assume she hasn't tried that already.

PS: the procedure to get clearance for euthanasia OBLIGES one to try. And not just once.

She's not exactly suffering shell shock and facing the trauma of watching all her friends die horribly; she's fine.

Baseless, and quite arrogant, opinion

The review board of the euthanasia procedure clearly doesn't agree with you that she is "fine".

I sometimes wonder than 21st century people have a much lower tolerance for suffering.

ow yes, and you are qualified to wonder this, because you looked up her case, interviewed her, interviewed her family, interviewed her doctors, pulled up all her medical files and reviewed those, followed up on all the therapies and medications she recieved, interviewed all the therapists involved,....... right?


PS: the review board of the euthanasia procedure... did just that. It seems they came to a very different conclusion................................

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

However I don't condone so called 'health' professionals going on about how she is completely hopeless and might as well off herself.

This never happened.
It seems you just imagined that.