It's said Jesus' sacrificed himself to save us...

[sojourner]

There is no confusion in Christianity, there IS in Christendom.

There's plenty of confusion in Xy, which was what necessitated the Jerusalem council in Acts. It's also what prompted Paul's first letter to the church at Corinth.

 

[sojourner]

The reason Christians talk to non-Christians who will listen is: When a Christian talks about the scriptures to non-Christians, that is when God reads the heart of the non-Christian.
When people read the scriptures, and do not believe them, it is because God has blinded them to the truth. There is nothing anybody can say, or do that will un-blind them.

Jesus talked about stuff other than the scriptures, and seemed to read their hearts just fine.
What reason could God have to intentionally lie to someone? To do so would be to deny God's nature.

 

[outhouse]

The reason Christians talk to non-Christians who will listen is: When a Christian talks about the scriptures to non-Christians, that is when God reads the heart of the non-Christian.
When people read the scriptures, and do not believe them, it is because God has blinded them to the truth. There is nothing anybody can say, or do that will un-blind them.

Many claim attitudes like yours that are anti academic, and refuse the truth of what is actually known about the text, perverting the text with their own personal interpretation, has blinded them to the reality of what the text are in context and meaning.

Basically those who remain uneducated really have no say so on how to read or understand text.


Yours is an apologetic version you have personally perverted, and now YOU are invoking some kind of mythological power that prevents knowledge. It is unsubstantiated rhetoric.

 

[outhouse]

BUT, its my opinion an Aramaic Galilean gave his life fighting the Roman oppression and Hellenistic corruption in the temple.

His perceived selfless actions resonate still today, whether you like it or not.


This is the reality of the perceived sacrifice. You can add what ever theology you want onto this historical core.

 

[Domenic]

Actually I don't believe that God "wrote" the Bible either. It was written by men, but I believe that the message was inspired by God. That means that the words were chosen by men but the thoughts were God's. If it was dictated, then all four gospels would be word for word, but even though their accounts are similar, some include details the others leave out. Put all four together and we get a more rounded out picture.

You are free to believe or disbelieve whatever you wish....as we all are. The Bible's message is for all, but God forces himself on no one....neither did Jesus. We can choose to accept the message or reject it. Choices have consequences and the Bible outlines what they are. Simple.

Lets keep it simple: All religions make claim their bible is taken from the scrolls. If that were true, all bibles would match word for word...the simple truth is they do not.
The scrolls were written by men from what God told them to write. If they just put it into their own words, they would not have asked as Daniel did, "What does this mean?"
I am a man. I could write a bible, and say anything I want. If I did that, and it did not match the scrolls, you would know it is not from God, but from man...it is the scrolls we need to look to, not the bible that was written by men for their own purpose. Simple. Satan is bad, but he is not stupid..."Write a book, and claim it is from God...and control these SIMPLE minded creatures. "

 

[outhouse]

The scrolls were written by men from what God told them to write.

That is not what the evidence shows.

Either that or the deity was not being truthful. Why would he tell them history that never took place?

Why would he contradict himself so many times?

 

[outhouse]

Simple. Satan is bad, but he is not stupid..."Write a book, and claim it is from God...and control these SIMPLE minded creatures. "

Unsubstantiated rhetoric.

 

[Domenic]

Outhouse,
It matters not to you what the bible says...You are blinded to the truth. All you are about is a rejection of anything God. So believe what you will, think Christians are stupid...whatever makes you happy kid. I'm not going to waste my time even making further replies to you, it's just a waste of time.....have a good life.

 

[truthofscripture]

Outhouse,
It matters not to you what the bible says...You are blinded to the truth. All you are about is a rejection of anything God. So believe what you will, think Christians are stupid...whatever makes you happy kid. I'm not going to waste my time even making further replies to you, it's just a waste of time.....have a good life.

Domenic, I had the same issue with Outhouse. Had to put Outhouse on my ignore list to get rid of the headache.

 

[outhouse]

You are blinded to the truth

You are blinded to academia, and all credible education and knowledge on the subject.

 

[outhouse]

Domenic, I had the same issue with Outhouse. Had to put Outhouse on my ignore list to get rid of the headache.

You are also blinded to academia, and all credible education and knowledge on the subject.

 

[outhouse]

There are two issues here with a sacrifice.

The theological sacrifice.

And a possible perceived historical sacrifice.


If you want to debate the meaning of the theological one say so. But don't attack history from a point of severe ignorance while doing so.

 

[Domenic]

There are two issues here with a sacrifice.

The theological sacrifice.And a possible perceived historical sacrifice. If you want to debate the meaning of the theological one say so. But don't attack history from a point of severe ignorance while doing so.

Outhouse,
There is no debate open to those who do not believe in Gods written word...because it can't go any place. Anything any Christian says about God, you reject.
Think on this:
If I believe in God, and you do not: If you are right, and I am wrong...nothing more will happen to me then what will happen to you. But, If I am right, and you are wrong...you will be stuck head first in an outhouse.

 

[sojourner]

If that were true, all bibles would match word for word

No, they wouldn't, because of the nature of the differences between the original languages and those into which they are being translated.

The scrolls were written by men from what God told them to write.

The scrolls were written by people. Period.

If they just put it into their own words, they would not have asked as Daniel did, "What does this mean?"

"Consensus" and "mind of the community" =/= "dictated by God."

it is the scrolls we need to look to, not the bible that was written by men for their own purpose.

What in the world do you think translational committees do??? They look to the most reliable, ancient sources. The main differences in translations is due to the fact that earlier translations don't have access to the same stuff the later translations do.

.You are blinded to the truth. All you are about is a rejection of anything God.

I don't get that sense from him at all. What I get is a desire for academic integrity.

Domenic, I had the same issue with Outhouse. Had to put Outhouse on my ignore list to get rid of the headache.

You have this issue with anyone who does not agree with your blind, biased viewpoints and opts, instead for academic excellence.

 

[outhouse]

Outhouse,
There is no debate open to those who do not believe in Gods written word...

Or in other words, you refuse all education and academia because it goes against your personal faith which is an appeal to ignorance.

. But, If I am right, and you are wrong

The problem here is you assume a deity will favor your position, if one exist.

If a deity does exist, I don't think he is going to follow the illogical position many claim he will.

And if one exist I want to ask him why everybody who describes him does so differently as if he was a man made literary creation.


FACT is, only man has described the concept, and every one who did, described him differently. And those that did the describing were ancient people who lived mythology and had no concept to the natural world and called lightning and thunder god, and volcanos, and earthquakes, and everything else they were IGNORANT about a god.

Sorry, you have no gamble what so ever. You have a weak fear tactic that is all bark and no bite


Your book you claim is gods word has factual errors, and mythology, im sorry you have so much trouble with education and knowledge that goes against your faith.

 

[sojourner]

There is no debate open to those who do not believe in Gods written word...because it can't go any place.

"Belief" in "God's written word" isn't necessary to exegete and debate what meaning might be inherent in the texts. What stops the debate is when "believers" think they can trump any textual evidence with "The Holy Spirit told me so."

 

[JayJayDee]

No it doesn't. "Inspired" means that their thoughts were quickened by the Holy Spirit -- not that alien thoughts somehow magically filtered into their heads.

sojourner, do you even think about what you say before you say it? Read that statement again......what on earth do you think "quickened by the Holy Spirit" actually means? We use that terminology in our ordinary speech do we?
You need to lose that ol' KJV....It's a lousy translation.

1 Peter 3:18...."For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit" (KJV)

1 Peter 3:18....."Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust: that he might offer us to God, being put to death indeed in the flesh, but enlivened in the spirit" (Douay-Rheims)

1 Peter 3:18..."For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit" (ESV)

1 Peter 3:18..."For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit" (NASB)

1 Peter 3:18...."because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit" (YLT)

So how are we to view scripture? By deciding for ourselves what scripture is actually "made alive" by God's spirit? Can we decide for ourselves what to believe and what not to believe in God's word? You think God has no control over what is in the Bible? The Bible is what God inspired......we don't get to chose.....you accept all or nothing.

2 Timothy 3:16....."All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (KJV)

I'll take Paul's word for the "inspiration" of scripture over yours...if that's OK with you. You give the impression that your own words are somehow in the same category......

Put all four together and we end up with "mush gospel." Each gospel is a thorough, stand-alone, theological story -- not a news story or history lesson about Jesus' life. The "more rounded out picture" comes when we consider each story on its own merits, and then construct a theological "quilt" using each complete gospel as a piece of the larger quilt.

LOL....and this is of course completely different to what I said...? You must obviously think you said it better? Perhaps you did.

When we try to "reconstruct" some kind of contrived, bogus "timeline" of Jesus' life by piecemealing the gospels, we lose the theological sense and integrity of each one.

What "contrived bogus timeline"? The gospels tell the story of the very brief ministry of the man who presented himself for baptism at the age of 30. It was then that Jesus became "the Christ" (anointed one). The gospels are a very brief description of what Jesus actually accomplished in his three and a half year ministry. (John 21:25) They record his teachings, his dealings with people, his miracles, resistance from the Jewish religious leaders of the day, his arrest, his illegal trial and the torture he received before the Romans nailed his hands and feet to an execution stake. The rest of the Greek scriptures are what happened after that. It documents what Jesus' apostles did to carry on the work that Jesus started. A couple of them even record the events around his birth. It is basically one story with four men offering details not always provide by the others.
So I am at a loss to understand what "contrived bogus timeline" you had in mind.

 

[JayJayDee]

The reason Christians talk to non-Christians who will listen is: When a Christian talks about the scriptures to non-Christians, that is when God reads the heart of the non-Christian.

Indeed. What better way to reveal what is in a person's heart. (Matt 24:14)

Hebrews 4:12-13....."For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."

When people read the scriptures, and do not believe them, it is because God has blinded them to the truth. There is nothing anybody can say, or do that will un-blind them.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4..."And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." (NSAB)

"The god of this world" is satan the devil.....it is he who blinds the minds of those who reject God's message.

It is true that God can permit a person's heart to remain hardened, but it is not God who blinds anyone.

2 Peter 3:9...."The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance." (NASB)

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Ha! I like that. Thanks!

Ok. Thanks. I missed that part -- and you're right. There's absolutely no place in any of Xy for this "My dog's better than your dog" crap.

Great. I think we're on the same page. Sorry for the mixup...

Glad we were able to kmunicatate.

When people read the scriptures, and do not believe them, it is because God has blinded them to the truth. There is nothing anybody can say, or do that will un-blind them.

Why would God blind people to his own Word??? And if you read the Koran and didn't believe it, would that be because Allah had blinded you to the Truth? How many gods blind some people to the "truth" but not others. Did my deist God blind you to the Truth? No, because a deist God wouldn't intervene one way or the other in order to protect your free will. And BTW, was your name written in the Book of Life from the beginning of Time? If so, that would mean your goodness wasn't actually yours. You wouldn't be you, just a name on a page. If not, then you were condemned to Hell 13 billion years ago (I won't argue about the actual time frame.)

BUT, its my opinion an Aramaic Galilean gave his life fighting the Roman oppression and Hellenistic corruption in the temple.

His perceived selfless actions resonate still today, whether you like it or not.

The jury's still out on how selfless he was. I do think he was courageous when he led the attack on the Temple and its corrupt priesthood, thinking himself to be the messiah. Then when God failed to show (after Jesus had cleansed the Temple) and assume the rule of the Kingdom of God, only two (of several hundred {or several thousand?}) of his followers shared his fate, leaving him to wonder from the cross why God had abandoned him. He could not have demonstrated stronger faith. Some of those disillusioned followers were likely in the crowd screaming for him to be crucified.

If only Jesus had been a deist, his faith would have been guided by reason. But then he'd never have been famous and had Mary the Magdalene as his hot, wealthy, trophy wife.

This is the reality of the perceived sacrifice. You can add what ever theology you want onto this historical core.

There is no replacement for repentance. Animal sacrifices, so we can consume their flesh and blood as a substitute for repentance, is morally irrational, and such human sacrifices are pagan and beyond immoral.

 

[JoStories]

Actually I don't believe that God "wrote" the Bible either. It was written by men, but I believe that the message was inspired by God. That means that the words were chosen by men but the thoughts were God's. If it was dictated, then all four gospels would be word for word, but even though their accounts are similar, some include details the others leave out. Put all four together and we get a more rounded out picture.

You are free to believe or disbelieve whatever you wish....as we all are. The Bible's message is for all, but God forces himself on no one....neither did Jesus. We can choose to accept the message or reject it. Choices have consequences and the Bible outlines what they are. Simple.

Curious question for you....what consequences are you speaking of? Hell? Because while I respect your belief, I find the entire notion of hell to be something used to coerce people. And IMO, that is far from simple. Your faith, with respect, offers people two 'choices'. Either accept the dogma or be damned. Not much of a choice, IMO. And not something that can be proven either. I do like some of the bible, but I don't believe any prophet was or has been 'divine'.