Jehovah

[savagewind]

Yeah, but what does the story say?
It says that God told them not to eat of the fruit. It says that Eve spoke with the serpent, not that she didn't recognize the serpent. We always have to go with what the story says.

No sa! There are too many holes in all of it to go with only what it "says". Did she recognize the serpent as an enemy or a friend of God? After listening to it the tree became "desirable to look at" so I should say for the sake of aurgumant because it is why we are here that she recognized it as a friend not an ememy.

 

[savagewind]

Gods word teaches--- Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together-- also teaches all would be one with them( eventually)-- how can this happen if some are independent?

If what you say is true then Hebrews 10:25 does not apply to the kings and priests who will rule with Jesus Christ because they are not physical. Is that right?

 

[JayJayDee]

The question is not about why the law of Moses is not longer in effect. The question is this: How do you know if Eve did not know if it was God who had decided for her?

And this question is from someone who purports to know scripture?

Why would God decide to allow the eating of a fruit that would cause death to creatures he designed to live forever?
She was not unintelligent, nor was she unacquainted with the consequences of disobedience.

There was no death in the garden apart from disobeying this one simple command.

This tree was God's property and they did not have the right to even touch it.

Respect for their Creator and what belonged to him, and obedience to this one command posed no hardship whatsoever to them.

There was every kind of fruit tree for the taking, including the "tree of life" which was also in the garden to ensure their continued existence. (Gen 3:22-24)

God spoke to Adam through an angel...Adam educated his wife as head of his fledgling family. Eve reiterated what her husband had told her concerning the fruit that they were not to touch. She not only disobeyed her husband, but also their God. She stole that which did not belong to her and then influenced her husband to join her. There was no excuse for what they did. They were physically perfect and morally driven by the exercise of their God-given conscience. It was pure selfishness on their part that drove them to disobey and choose death.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

And this question is from someone who purports to know scripture?

Why would God decide to allow the eating of a fruit that would cause death to creatures he designed to live forever?
She was not unintelligent, nor was she unacquainted with the consequences of disobedience.

There was no death in the garden apart from disobeying this one simple command.

This tree was God's property and they did not have the right to even touch it.

Respect for their Creator and what belonged to him, and obedience to this one command posed no hardship whatsoever to them.

There was every kind of fruit tree for the taking, including the "tree of life" which was also in the garden to ensure their continued existence. (Gen 3:22-24)

God spoke to Adam through an angel...Adam educated his wife as head of his fledgling family. Eve reiterated what her husband had told her concerning the fruit that they were not to touch. She not only disobeyed her husband, but also their God. She stole that which did not belong to her and then influenced her husband to join her. There was no excuse for what they did. They were physically perfect and morally driven by the exercise of their God-given conscience. It was pure selfishness on their part that drove them to disobey and choose death.

I kind of think they didn't actually choose death, you know, since it says they were deceived, they obviously thought they were choosing life.

 

[savagewind]

Why would God decide to allow the eating of a fruit that would cause death to creatures he designed to live forever?
She was not unintelligent, nor was she unacquainted with the consequences of disobedience.

Is it not possible the unripe fruit would cause death but the ripe fruit would not? It is too bad you can not think beyond what the governing body allows.

 

[savagewind]

It is interesting to me that the Jehovah's Witnesses are the only group I know about who believes salvation is linked to knowledge but they believe the knowledge tree always brings death.

 

[Pegg]

I kind of think they didn't actually choose death, you know, since it says they were deceived, they obviously thought they were choosing life.

1Tim 2:13*For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14*Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression

 

[savagewind]

Eve was deceived. I don't remember scripture expalining what she was deceived about. Jehovah's Witnesses teach she was deceived to believe if she ate she would live forever. I am saying maybe she was deceived to believe the message she heard was an ammendment to the first one. That is what I am asking. How do you know what Eve was deceived about?

 

[jtartar]

I have read enough to be able to conclude the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses equate themselves to Jehovah*. They do believe Jehovah is the modern name of the God of Israel יְהוָה֙ .


I wonder why Jews are silent regarding that fact that when they say Jehovah they mean the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses.


*An example of it is when someone leaves the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses it is said they leave Jehovah.


I have concluded in my own right that calling a human organization Jehovah is sinning against the commandment "You shall not take the name of Adonai thy God in vain".

1. Why does it not matter if a non Jew does it?
2. Is it not bad if The Name is pronounced incorrectly?

It seems to me the order of the ten commandments is significant. Why has taking The Name in vain become least significant please?

savagewind,
Every person who belongs to a religion should believe that he is in the true religion. The reason for this is stated at Eph 4:4,5, which says there is ONE Faith.
The reason that Jehovah's witnesses say a person who leaves their faith, that they are leaving Jehovah, is, they believe their's is that one Faith.
The word Adonai, is not a name, it is a title!
The Supreme God of the Bible has ONE Personal, or Proper name!! that name is Jehovah, all the other names are Proper Adjectives, they describe certain attributes of The Almighty God.
The name for God, in Hebrew was YHWH, or JHVH. Some Jewish people think the name for God should be pronounced Yahweh. For all anyone knows that may be more accurate in Jewish language, but the Name Jehovah has been used several hundred years, in modern times. There were Coins made with Jehovah on them. There were many edifices in older times that had God's Name Jehovah on their fronts.
The name Jehovah is the most recognized and used name for God, so until He lets us know exactly how it should be pronounced, I for one, will stay with this name.
A reason that God had not made it known to all how He wants His name pronounced, could be for the reason that He does not want people who do not love Him to use His name wrongly. We will SOON know for sure how sees this!!

 

[kjw47]

If what you say is true then Hebrews 10:25 does not apply to the kings and priests who will rule with Jesus Christ because they are not physical. Is that right?

While they are on earth they are physical

 

[savagewind]

While they are on earth they are physical

And when they go to their spiritual state they no longer are able to gather together in the flesh like you teach Hebrews 10:15 means.

OR

If they are to continue obeying it the resort then for them would be to seek the flesh again so they can gather together in the flesh again like it says "do not forsake". By allowing God to make them spirits they ARE forsaking gathering in the flesh.

Do you see what I mean?

 

[kjw47]

And when they go to their spiritual state they no longer are able to gather together in the flesh like you teach Hebrews 10:15 means.

OR

If they are to continue obeying it the resort then for them would be to seek the flesh again so they can gather together in the flesh again like it says "do not forsake". By allowing God to make them spirits they ARE forsaking gathering in the flesh.

Do you see what I mean?

Lets get real-- they can gather with other spirits in the same flock. It was a word of advice to mortals anyhow.

 

[savagewind]

Lets get real-- they can gather with other spirits in the same flock. It was a word of advice to mortals anyhow.

It is not "they can" gather together with like spirits. It is THEY ARE gathered together with like spirits. Here comes the face palm.

One body.

 

[JayJayDee]

I kind of think they didn't actually choose death, you know, since it says they were deceived, they obviously thought they were choosing life.

Picture this H.....The devil is plotting to hijack the human race. He has fellow angels who are his equal, so he cannot be a god to them, all he can be is their leader. With the creation of lesser beings who have no supernatural abilities, this angelic rebel seized his chance to "be like God", which is what he told the woman would happen if she disobeyed the command concerning the knowledge of good and evil.
It was himself who wanted to be like God all along. He even offered Jesus a reward in exchange for an act of worship. What a desperate!

Satan did not tempt Adam, but targeted the newer, less experienced (and therefore more spiritually vulnerable of the pair.) He waited till she was alone. Predators still do this because attacking the weaker and younger members of the flock or herd, if they have strayed away from their protectors, works in their favour.

The devil figured that if he could get the woman to disobey, that she in turn would tempt the man. He was spot on.
The Bible says it was 'through the man that sin entered into the world'....not the woman. (Rom 5:12)

The woman was deceived, but Adam was not, as Pegg has said. He made a deliberate choice to side with his disobedient wife....he chose the love of his life over the love of his God. There was no excuse for that.

There is not one expression of remorse on the part of Adam or his wife, nor is there a single sacrifice offered by them for their sin. The reason being that they could not be forgiven. God's perfect justice demanded the stated penalty and that is what they got. They chose it in full knowledge of the consequences and the Bible principle is that 'you reap what you have sown'.

 

[Ivan-Michael]

They do believe Jehovah is the modern name of the God of Israel יְהוָה֙ .
That is correct, YHVH is the God of Israel, it says so in the bible, but, who is Israel?
Are the Jews Israel?
Emphatic No.
J witness? No
Christians? No
Muslims? No
If anyone claims to be Israel (or a member of the "House of Jacob') they'd better provide proof, hard facts.
YHVH is not our God, it is their God. Listen oh Israel, YHVH is our God YHVH is One (UN).

 

[Pegg]

They do believe Jehovah is the modern name of the God of Israel יְהוָה֙ .
That is correct, YHVH is the God of Israel, it says so in the bible, but, who is Israel?
Are the Jews Israel?
Emphatic No.
J witness? No
Christians? No
Muslims? No
If anyone claims to be Israel (or a member of the "House of Jacob') they'd better provide proof, hard facts.
YHVH is not our God, it is their God. Listen oh Israel, YHVH is our God YHVH is One (UN).

The Isreal of God are Christs annointed followers.

Not all are annointed, only 144000 according to scripture.

 

[gilligan8914]

Spelling Pegg, spelling!

 

[savagewind]

Anointed of Israel is what David was. But JWs do not consider him one of the 144,000.

 

[Pegg]

Spelling Pegg, spelling!

anointed, Israel ok ok

 

[Pegg]

Anointed of Israel is what David was. But JWs do not consider him one of the 144,000.

the anointed ones began to be gathered when the new covenant came into effect... that was only after Christs death and resurrection.

The first occurrence of anointing by holy spirit occurred at Pentecost.