Jesus' God ???

[Muffled]

I believe the scriptures indicate the holy spirit is the supernatural power/force (not a person) which emanates from the Father, so in that sense yes, Christ was of the holy spirit. Besides the non-personification of the hs and the very fact the scriptures portray Christ as a subordinate created YHVH not only completely eliminates the co-eternal aspect of the trinity, but puts in question its existence.

I believe that is a flawed JW belief, since God is the Holy Spirit.

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh and God is one so there is no "of the holy spirit."

I believe that is impossible since a spirit is a person in the sense of having personality even if it is not in the sense of physicality.

I believe Jesus is subordinate because of the flesh but the Spirit is equal. There is no such thing as a created Yahweh.

That depends on how views time. God has told me that time always exists so in that case Jesus being in time always exists also.

 

[james2ko]

I believe you are in error. There were three men, one of which spoke to Abraham as Yahweh. There were two angels that came to Lot and it would make sense that the two ment coming to Abraham who were not God were those two angels.

Then perhaps you can teach me something. You can start by addressing why the most ancient texts have Abraham and Lot referring to these deities as LORD'S [YHVH'S] with plural pronouns:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3742976-post12.html

 

[james2ko]

I believe that is a flawed JW belief, since God is the Holy Spirit.

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh and God is one so there is no "of the holy spirit."

I believe that is impossible since a spirit is a person in the sense of having personality even if it is not in the sense of physicality.

I believe Jesus is subordinate because of the flesh but the Spirit is equal. There is no such thing as a created Yahweh.

That depends on how views time. God has told me that time always exists so in that case Jesus being in time always exists also.

That's great . But as I have repeatedly proven in our discussions, your beliefs are not justified by scripture.

 

[Muffled]

Then perhaps you can teach me something. You can start by addressing why the most ancient texts have Abraham and Lot referring to these deities as LORD'S [YHVH'S] with plural pronouns:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3742976-post12.html

I believe it doesn't matter what they were called because one can figure out from realtionships who is who. Only one is addressed as the authority that can chage how Sodom is destroyed. God is not in the practice of subjecting Himself to sinful men unless He has a specific purpose for doing so and that is why He is not there in Sodom with the two angels.

 

[Muffled]

That's great . But as I have repeatedly proven in our discussions, your beliefs are not justified by scripture.

I believe you can repeat all you like but the truth is you are not proving your point and I am a reasonable person who accepts valid proof.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Does Jesus, Himself, in His spoken words, recognize/acknowledge/designate who His God is????

Yes if you count John 20:17. Jesus says to Mary "...I am ascending to your father and my father, to your God and my God." Note that he says this even after he has been resurrected.

 

[kjw47]

Yes if you count John 20:17. Jesus says to Mary "...I am ascending to your father and my father, to your God and my God." Note that he says this even after he has been resurrected.

Also rev 3:12-- 1 cor 8:6, 2 cor 1:3------ one side( trinitys) is seriously being mislead-- unless of course they teach--God has a God--because Jesus has a God. but then that is more than one God--so God does not have a God, but Jesus does.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Also rev 3:12-- 1 cor 8:6, 2 cor 1:3------ one side( trinitys) is seriously being mislead-- unless of course they teach--God has a God--because Jesus has a God. but then that is more than one God--so God does not have a God, but Jesus does.

It is unclear to me if the 'Trinity side' is a side rather than just another perspective. How many Christians have taken both sides over the centuries? Many have, and many will again.

 

[kjw47]

It is unclear to me if the 'Trinity side' is a side rather than just another perspective. How many Christians have taken both sides over the centuries? Many have, and many will again.

I think with billions of mislead followers over the centuries, it counts as a side. There is no trinity god--it is satan posing as the Christian god. It is he who is receiving the worship. All throughout Gods written word for the majority of mankinds history = 99% mislead-99% false religions( Babylon the great) The only true servants in the bible serve--YHWH(Jehovah) a single being mono God. This is the God taught in the synagogues, Jesus' first 30 years in attendance--Jesus never refuted that truth. He taught it--John 20:17, rev 3:12

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think with billions of mislead followers over the centuries, it counts as a side. There is no trinity god--it is satan posing as the Christian god. It is he who is receiving the worship. All throughout Gods written word for the majority of mankinds history = 99% mislead-99% false religions( Babylon the great) The only true servants in the bible serve--YHWH(Jehovah) a single being mono God. This is the God taught in the synagogues, Jesus' first 30 years in attendance--Jesus never refuted that truth. He taught it--John 20:17, rev 3:12

That is a mouthful!

 

[Muffled]

That's great . But as I have repeatedly proven in our discussions, your beliefs are not justified by scripture.

I believe you haven't proven it to me and that means that I consider your logic fallacious.

 

[Muffled]

Also rev 3:12-- 1 cor 8:6, 2 cor 1:3------ one side( trinitys) is seriously being mislead-- unless of course they teach--God has a God--because Jesus has a God. but then that is more than one God--so God does not have a God, but Jesus does.

I believe that is a totally misappropriated account of what I said and that is that God is his God not that God has another God.

I believe God belongs to Himself so He definitely has Himself.

I believe false premises lead to false conclusions.

I believe that Jesus leads me well.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I used to think it was extremely important to fight against trinitarian beliefs, but it actually is much more important to embrace other believers and let God be the judge of beliefs.

"Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know." I Corinthians 8:2 NIV

"Out of the same mouth comes praising and cursing. My brothers this should not be." James 3:10 NIV

"The wind blows where it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the spirit." John 3:8 NIV

 

[james2ko]

I believe you haven't proven it to me and that means that I consider your logic fallacious.

I think the syntactical evidence I have presented speaks for itself and is quite logical. My primary goal of posting on this forum is not to convince the one with whom I am conversing, but to perhaps invoke thought and ultimate change in those lurking.

 

[kjw47]

I believe that is a totally misappropriated account of what I said and that is that God is his God not that God has another God.

I believe God belongs to Himself so He definitely has Himself.

I believe false premises lead to false conclusions.

I believe that Jesus leads me well.

The catholics-- protestants--Mormons, Unitarians, And the JW,s all believe Jesus is leading them well---belief that it is truth--doesn't make it truth--these teachers are prevalent in the world too.--2 Corinthians 11:12-15
No false premises when--Jesus, Paul and John( anointed) all teach the same fact--Jesus has a God.

 

[kjw47]

That is a mouthful!

A mouthful of fact--this world better take a quick step back and take a good look.

 

[jtartar]

Does Jesus, Himself, in His spoken words, recognize/acknowledge/designate who His God is????

The Real Milkman,
Yes, Jesus says in his own words who his Father and also who his God is, John 20:17. Notice also that at John 17:1-3, Jesus calls his Father The Only True God.
Another very telling group go scripture are at Matt 16:13-17. Consider the truth Jesus said at John 6:57, He says; I live because of the Father. Then it is told us what a real Father is at Prov 23:22,where the Bible says Father is he who has begotten you, caused your birth.
Remember also, Jesus said that The a Father is greater tan I am, John 14:28.
Would a person pray with outcry and tears to himself or an equal?? Hebrew 5:5-9, Matt 26:39.
There are two places in the Holy Scriptures that make it impossible for Jesus and The Almighty God to be the same. Both these places tell about Jesus being brought in before God, who was sitting on the throne, to receive something from God, Dan 7:13, 14 & Rev 5:6,7.
Who do you think was the one that called from heaven three different times to talk to Jesus, calling Jesus My son, Matt 3:17, Mark 9:7, John 12:28-30??? Remember, there was NO deception in Jesus, and Jesus' Father hates deception, 1Pet 2:21,22, Ps 5:6.
The Almighty God,whose name is Jehovah, is not the same as His son, in fact the Bible tells us that Jesus was God's FIRST Creation, Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, with all other things being created through Jesus, and FOR a Jesus, Col 1:16, 1Cor 8:6, Hebrew 1:2.

 

[kjw47]

I believe that is a totally misappropriated account of what I said and that is that God is his God not that God has another God.

I believe God belongs to Himself so He definitely has Himself.

I believe false premises lead to false conclusions.

I believe that Jesus leads me well.

I hope that as well, Muffled( Jesus leading you well)

A true servant of Jesus follows his steps closely--thus would serve The Father( Jehovah) as their God as Jesus does( forever)

 

[Muffled]

I think the syntactical evidence I have presented speaks for itself and is quite logical. My primary goal of posting on this forum is not to convince the one with whom I am conversing, but to perhaps invoke thought and ultimate change in those lurking.

I believe thinking one is logical and being loical are two different things. Are you conversant in the rules of logic?

I don't believe you have presented any tautologies.

I am fine with that as long as it is made clear that you are speculating. I do that also and often enough my speculations although fun are incorrect.

 

[james2ko]

I don't believe you have presented any tautologies.

I believe there are those who sail on "Denial" while others like yourself swim in it. I understand it is not a good idea to swim in that river in Egypt.

I am fine with that as long as it is made clear that you are speculating. I do that also and often enough my speculations although fun are incorrect.

Consistent with your conclusions.

I believe thinking one is logical and being loical are two different things. Are you conversant in the rules of logic?

Obviously more than your illogic can handle.