Jesus in Heaven is not God

[Sargonski]

I’m already saved, your rejection of the truth of the preexistence of the Son of God has nothing to do with salvation. It’s just a fact. One day your eyes may be opened to the obvious.

What are ya saved from ? .. pre-existent or immaculate conception don't matter a wit to that .. either way he be at the right hand of the Father .. to Judge both the Quick and the Dead..

Is it Judgement from which you claim to be saved ? .. got some kind of free pass through judgement ? Trying to understand from what you are saved .. sorry if my guesses are way off...

 

[Colt]

What are ya saved from ? .. pre-existent or immaculate conception don't matter a wit to that .. either way he be at the right hand of the Father .. to Judge both the Quick and the Dead..

Is it Judgement from which you claim to be saved ? .. got some kind of free pass through judgement ? Trying to understand from what you are saved .. sorry if my guesses are way off...

Saved by faith in God from eternal death. God didn’t rape Jesus’ mother, he was conceived the natural way by a married couple.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Well, there are no claims by Jesus, himself, that he came from Heaven…

Then where was he?
John 17:5

 

[amazing grace]

Then where was he?
John 17:5

In the mind of God as His plan for man's redemption and salvation.

 

[amazing grace]

Saved by faith in God from eternal death. God didn’t rape Jesus’ mother, he was conceived the natural way by a married couple.

Jesus was not conceived the natural way . . . Jesus's conception was a miraculous conception.

 

[Soapy]

I’m already saved, your rejection of the truth of the preexistence of the Son of God has nothing to do with salvation. It’s just a fact. One day your eyes may be opened to the obvious.

All mankind is saved from the sin of Adam that had condemned all mankind to die (eternally destruction) no matter their sinful status.

This was what Jesus died to save mankind from - bring salvation - save all mankind from!

Each one of us in mankind are now responsible for their own sinful status and must be individually repentant and live a life which glorifies almighty God and recognises the Son of God as their saviour.

There is no such thing as ‘Saved’ - ‘ETERNALLY SAVED’ as you might say - if you are committing sin and are in disbelief of the word of God … as you are right here!

Indeed, eternal salvation is only applicable to the Elect of God … and you certainly are not such a one!!! Even the the mass majority of the ELECT do not know who they are since their humbleness would never allow them to proclaim of themselves, nor to anyone, such a status position.

A person is saved from eternal destruction at the end of time IF THEY CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND CHRIST… which means TRUE BELIEF and LIVE AND SPEAK IN BELIEF OF THEM.

You see (do you?) that the very fact of claiming you are ALREADY saved disbars your claim of being already saved!!!:

• “Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.” (1 Cor 3:18)

 

[Soapy]

Then where was he?
John 17:5

‘Jesus’ …

He who was born to be the PROMISED MESSIAH…

The one from the loins of Abraham’ …

The ‘Son’ of the patriarch, David, king of Israel?

Where was he before he was born in the manner of the first human, Adam… to be the SECOND and the LAST ADAM…?

God PROPHESIED about him… Moses SPOKE about him… The Scriptures (vis the prophets) WROTE about him….

And, in the fullness of time, GOD SENT HIM, BORN OF [the promised SEED] A WOMAN.

‘And he was named “Jesus”, for he will save his people’ … the name is actually ‘Yeshua’ which is Hebrew for Joshua, and is Greek for the same!

And the patriarch leader, Joshua, was the one who ‘SAVED THE ISRAELITES INTO the PROMISED LAND OF CAANA’… which is to underline the REASON why God, via the Angel Gabriel, that the Messiah must be named so (Yeshua / Joshua / Jesus).

Prophesying about the coming of someone does not make that someone already there.

Was John the Baptist a pre-existent being… God prophesied about him, too!!

God prophesied about the Elected ones - whose names were chosen from before the foundation of the world - Were they also pre-existent beings?

 

[Colt]

Jesus was not conceived the natural way . . . Jesus's conception was a miraculous conception.

John 6:42

41At this, the Jews began to grumble about Jesus because He had said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42They were asking, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then can He say, ‘I have come down from heaven?’”

Everyone knew that Jesus was born from Mary and Joseph, the miraculous conception was added later when the story was written. John said nothing in his book about a virgin being impregnated by God. HOWEVER, the miracle of miracles was the Son in heaven becoming the person of the conception between Mary and he husband Joseph, their first born child.

 

[Colt]

All mankind is saved from the sin of Adam that had condemned all mankind to die (eternally destruction) no matter their sinful status.

This was what Jesus died to save mankind from - bring salvation - save all mankind from!

Each one of us in mankind are now responsible for their own sinful status and must be individually repentant and live a life which glorifies almighty God and recognises the Son of God as their saviour.

There is no such thing as ‘Saved’ - ‘ETERNALLY SAVED’ as you might say - if you are committing sin and are in disbelief of the word of God … as you are right here!

Indeed, eternal salvation is only applicable to the Elect of God … and you certainly are not such a one!!! Even the the mass majority of the ELECT do not know who they are since their humbleness would never allow them to proclaim of themselves, nor to anyone, such a status position.

A person is saved from eternal destruction at the end of time IF THEY CONTINUE TO BELIEVE IN GOD AND CHRIST… which means TRUE BELIEF and LIVE AND SPEAK IN BELIEF OF THEM.

You see (do you?) that the very fact of claiming you are ALREADY saved disbars your claim of being already saved!!!:

• “Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become “fools” so that you may become wise.” (1 Cor 3:18)

Jesus never taught Paul's atonement theory, the Gospel of Jesus that he preached to the Jews was a return to the basics of loyalty to the father as opposed to loyalty to endless traditions and rules devised by holy men!

"Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."

 

[Colt]

In the mind of God as His plan for man's redemption and salvation.

Clever rationalization!

And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.........when I was just a glorified plan in your head!

When Jesus returned to heaven did he return to being a glorified plan or is he still a personality relaity?

 

[Sargonski]

Saved by faith in God from eternal death. God didn’t rape Jesus’ mother, he was conceived the natural way by a married couple.

Didn't say God raped the Mother of Jesus .... so why are you pretending I did .. in borderline potty mouth tones. Never a good start to begin with strawman fallacy.

That said -- you did answer the question so kudo's for that .. Is this salvation from faith in God or Jesus or Both ? You say God here so... are you saying that if one believes that God exists .. one will will not be snuffed out of existence "eternal death"

This belief seems rather strait-forward -- not something that most Christians believe though .. where did you learn this salvation formulation ?

what about judgement though ? --- what if one is not snuffed out, but has to spend eternity in hell .. being tormented and tortured ?

 

[Colt]

Didn't say God raped the Mother of Jesus .... so why are you pretending I did .. in borderline potty mouth tones. Never a good start to begin with strawman fallacy.

That said -- you did answer the question so kudo's for that .. Is this salvation from faith in God or Jesus or Both ? You say God here so... are you saying that if one believes that God exists .. one will will not be snuffed out of existence "eternal death"

This belief seems rather strait-forward -- not something that most Christians believe though .. where did you learn this salvation formulation ?

I didn't say that you said God raped Mary, I'm saying that the teaching of a miraculous conception is in fact God impregnating a virgin women without consent.

In the original Gospel of Jesus salvation was by faith. After Jesus left a whole bunch of new stuff was added which complicates the matter.

Jesus was a back-to-basics Jewish guy who rubbed the establishment the wrong way.

 

[Sargonski]

I didn't say that you said God raped Mary, I'm saying that the teaching of a miraculous conception is in fact God impregnating a virgin women without consent.

In the original Gospel of Jesus salvation was by faith. After Jesus left a whole bunch of new stuff was added which complicates the matter.

Jesus was a back-to-basics Jewish guy who rubbed the establishment the wrong way.

In Luke an angel showed up and told her she was going to be impregated .. but, what-ever ..this has no relevance to the Salvation formulation you were suggesting.

You repeat "Salvation by faith" but do not provide the who or the what. Is this Faith in God , Jesus, both or neither ? and faith in what .. that if one believes that God exists .. one is saved from eternal death ? is the sum total thus far. What about eternal torture .. is there no way being thrown into hell in your version ? Think it would be better to be snuffed out .. and not be saved from eternal death in that case.

 

[Colt]

In Luke an angel showed up and told her she was going to be impregated .. but, what-ever ..this has no relevance to the Salvation formulation you were suggesting.

You repeat "Salvation by faith" but do not provide the who or the what. Is this Faith in God , Jesus, both or neither ? and faith in what .. that if one believes that God exists .. one is saved from eternal death ? is the sum total thus far. What about eternal torture .. is there no way being thrown into hell in your version ? Think it would be better to be snuffed out .. and not be saved from eternal death in that case.

Faith in God.

Hell is a fictional place invented by shamans to scare people into religion.

 

[Sargonski]

Faith in God.

Hell is a fictional place invented by shamans to scare people into religion.

Got it ! .. to sleep or not to sleep is the ony question of salvation

 

[amazing grace]

John 6:42

41At this, the Jews began to grumble about Jesus because He had said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42They were asking, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How then can He say, ‘I have come down from heaven?’”

Everyone knew that Jesus was born from Mary and Joseph, the miraculous conception was added later when the story was written. John said nothing in his book about a virgin being impregnated by God. HOWEVER, the miracle of miracles was the Son in heaven becoming the person of the conception between Mary and he husband Joseph, their first born child.

The ones grumbling about Jesus are non-believers. They do not believe that Jesus "came from heaven", i.e. came from God, the one who sent him so naturally they believe he is the son of Mary and Joseph.

Yes, Jesus was born of Mary but the conception was by the Holy Spirit, the power of the Most High - the only begotten Son of God.
True, John said nothing about the birth or conception of Jesus except for the affirmations by Jesus that he came from heaven, came from above, and that his Father (God) sent him but that doesn't negate the record of Jesus conception and birth in Matthew and Luke.

 

[amazing grace]

I didn't say that you said God raped Mary, I'm saying that the teaching of a miraculous conception is in fact God impregnating a virgin women without consent.

In the original Gospel of Jesus salvation was by faith. After Jesus left a whole bunch of new stuff was added which complicates the matter.

Jesus was a back-to-basics Jewish guy who rubbed the establishment the wrong way.

Mary ga'e her consent when the angel visited her: And Mary said, 'Behold I am the servant of the Lord (God); let it be to me according to your word.' And the angel departed from her."

 

[Colt]

The ones grumbling about Jesus are non-believers. They do not believe that Jesus "came from heaven", i.e. came from God, the one who sent him so naturally they believe he is the son of Mary and Joseph.

Yes, Jesus was born of Mary but the conception was by the Holy Spirit, the power of the Most High - the only begotten Son of God.
True, John said nothing about the birth or conception of Jesus except for the affirmations by Jesus that he came from heaven, came from above, and that his Father (God) sent him but that doesn't negate the record of Jesus conception and birth in Matthew and Luke.

We all “come from God”, what Jesus said indicated his divine preexistence, otherwise the Audience wouldn’t have taken offense.

Virgin births of saviors was already common in the Pagan world so IMOP that’s the origin of story. Jesus never said it.

If Mary and the rest of his family knew Jesus was miraculously conceived then they would have thought he was nuts for teaching as he did.

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

 

[Colt]

Mary ga'e her consent when the angel visited her: And Mary said, 'Behold I am the servant of the Lord (God); let it be to me according to your word.' And the angel departed from her."

Who did Jesus look like? Joseph, Mary or God?

It seems John the Baptist was also miraculously conceived?

 

[amazing grace]

We all “come from God”, what Jesus said indicated his divine preexistence, otherwise the Audience wouldn’t have taken offense.

Virgin births of saviors was already common in the Pagan world so IMOP that’s the origin of story. Jesus never said it.

If Mary and the rest of his family knew Jesus was miraculously conceived then they would have thought he was nuts for teaching as he did.

20 Then Jesus entered a house, and again a crowd gathered, so that he and his disciples were not even able to eat. 21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

Jesus did not preexist his birth - his beginning, his origin, his genesis. We do not all "come from God". Although each child given to parents are considered blessings; we come from our parents through natural procreation but our new birth through faith in Christ comes from God.

I cannot comment on the reference in Mark 3:20,21 because there is really not enough information in the text to draw a clear conclusion. "And when his family heard it . . . what did they hear?