Response: Not at all.
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Jesus in the Qur'an and the Bible
- Thread starter Fatihah
- Start date
Response: Not at all.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Ok, so far, so good. Do you also understand that it simply doesn't matter to non-believers what the Qur'an says about anything? Hence, Christians don't really give a fiddler's darn about the Islamic perpective on Jesus as they don't believe those claims are true to begin with.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
LOL! "fiddler's darn" that deserves frubals:clap
Response: Yes. And I also understand that truthhood conquers falsehood.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Truth is relative, Fatihah.
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
And facthood conquers faithhood.
Muffled
Jesus in me
This isn't the case. There is no contradiction but only misinterpretations by Muslims. The very same warning that is given to Christians and Jews about misinterpreting text is also give to Muslims. However God has a remedy for that. Get your answer from God. That is easier for a Christian becuase he has the Paraclete (Holy Spirit) but that doesn't mean that it is impossible for others.
Response: No misinterpretation at all. Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesied in the bible on several ocassion from the mouth of Jesus himself. We are told of a periclytos who will come from the mouth of Jesus and he is Muhammad, not the Holy Spirit.
Response: The bible refers to several as the son of God, not just Jesus.
ayani
member
this is true. but no one else called a son of God was conceived by God's Holy Spirit.
thus, Christians say Jesus is God's only begotten Son. a term used for the nation Israel by God in earlier times, and a title manifested in the flesh by the virgin birth.
Muslims generally understand the Holy Spirit to be the angel Gabriel. but Christians understand the Spirit to be simply God's Spirit. His presence, holiness, power, and guidance which proceeds from Him, and also from His Son. the Spirit is compared to wind, fire, and water in the Bible, and other things.
so in Christian belief, Jesus is unique in that He had no earthly father, but God as His Father. not through relations, but through the Spirit of God giving Jesus form in Mary's womb, being the fathering agent that a man (Yusef) would have been in this case.
thus, Christians say Jesus is God's only begotten Son. a term used for the nation Israel by God in earlier times, and a title manifested in the flesh by the virgin birth.
Muslims generally understand the Holy Spirit to be the angel Gabriel. but Christians understand the Spirit to be simply God's Spirit. His presence, holiness, power, and guidance which proceeds from Him, and also from His Son. the Spirit is compared to wind, fire, and water in the Bible, and other things.
so in Christian belief, Jesus is unique in that He had no earthly father, but God as His Father. not through relations, but through the Spirit of God giving Jesus form in Mary's womb, being the fathering agent that a man (Yusef) would have been in this case.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Fatihah,
Only the Bible tells us the whole truth about Jesus. The Quran does not recognize Jesus as God's son, the Messiah, that all who had faith in the Hebrew Scriptures, were looking for, at the time John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness.
Exactly why Muslims and Jews have rejected Jesus as the Messiah is a real hard question to answer. Jesus fulfilled scores of scriptures that were prophecies about his comming.
According to the Mosaic Law Covenant two or three could determine the truthfulness of a matter, Deut 19:15. There are four Gospels, all written by Jews, still they will not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. If anyone does not believe that Jesus came to give his life as a Lamb that takes away the sin of the world, they cannot be saved, Deut 18:18,19, Acts 3:19-23,John 1:29, Acts 4:12, Matt 20:28, Acts 13:38,38.
There were many other witnesses that wrote about Jesus, as Paul. Jesus' brothers, James and Jude. There were people who did not believe in Jesus who wrote about him. With all these witness, why do the Muslims and Jews not believe, when their own Mosaic Law Covenant estabolishes their testamony to be true, Deut 19:15.
[QUOTE:jtartar]Fatihah,
Only the Bible tells us the whole truth about Jesus. The Quran does not recognize Jesus as God's son, the Messiah, that all who had faith in the Hebrew Scriptures, were looking for, at the time John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness.
Exactly why Muslims and Jews have rejected Jesus as the Messiah is a real hard question to answer. Jesus fulfilled scores of scriptures that were prophecies about his comming.(End quote)
Response: True. Islam does not accept Jesus as the Son of God because but islam does accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Quote: jtartar
According to the Mosaic Law Covenant two or three could determine the truthfulness of a matter, Deut 19:15. There are four Gospels, all written by Jews, still they will not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. If anyone does not believe that Jesus came to give his life as a Lamb that takes away the sin of the world, they cannot be saved, Deut 18:18,19, Acts 3:19-23,John 1:29, Acts 4:12, Matt 20:28, Acts 13:38,38.
There were many other witnesses that wrote about Jesus, as Paul. Jesus' brothers, James and Jude. There were people who did not believe in Jesus who wrote about him. With all these witness, why do the Muslims and Jews not believe, when their own Mosaic Law Covenant estabolishes their testamony to be true, Deut 19:15. (End quote)
Response: Well, you should also ask yourself the question as to why you reject the account of Jesus in the qur'an when Jesus in the bible confirms the account? Yes the bible says that Jesus died for the sins of humanity, but since when was suicide or murder a good thing? In the bible we read:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statues, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die." (Ezekiel 18:20,21)
Here we read that in order to be forgiven, all that is needed is to repent and do what is lawful. That's it. No one has to be killed or commit suicide for our sins to be forgiven. It also rejects the belief that we inherit sin from our fathers so such teachings like the original sin is discarded. So the bible itself confirms the account of Jesus in the qur'an.
Only the Bible tells us the whole truth about Jesus. The Quran does not recognize Jesus as God's son, the Messiah, that all who had faith in the Hebrew Scriptures, were looking for, at the time John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness.
Exactly why Muslims and Jews have rejected Jesus as the Messiah is a real hard question to answer. Jesus fulfilled scores of scriptures that were prophecies about his comming.(End quote)
Response: True. Islam does not accept Jesus as the Son of God because but islam does accept Jesus as the Messiah.
Quote: jtartar
According to the Mosaic Law Covenant two or three could determine the truthfulness of a matter, Deut 19:15. There are four Gospels, all written by Jews, still they will not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. If anyone does not believe that Jesus came to give his life as a Lamb that takes away the sin of the world, they cannot be saved, Deut 18:18,19, Acts 3:19-23,John 1:29, Acts 4:12, Matt 20:28, Acts 13:38,38.
There were many other witnesses that wrote about Jesus, as Paul. Jesus' brothers, James and Jude. There were people who did not believe in Jesus who wrote about him. With all these witness, why do the Muslims and Jews not believe, when their own Mosaic Law Covenant estabolishes their testamony to be true, Deut 19:15. (End quote)
Response: Well, you should also ask yourself the question as to why you reject the account of Jesus in the qur'an when Jesus in the bible confirms the account? Yes the bible says that Jesus died for the sins of humanity, but since when was suicide or murder a good thing? In the bible we read:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statues, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die." (Ezekiel 18:20,21)
Here we read that in order to be forgiven, all that is needed is to repent and do what is lawful. That's it. No one has to be killed or commit suicide for our sins to be forgiven. It also rejects the belief that we inherit sin from our fathers so such teachings like the original sin is discarded. So the bible itself confirms the account of Jesus in the qur'an.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Oh wow, open up a can of worms with this one.
The more I read up on the Holy Spirit, the more I believe it's just a term for Shekinah (Sakina for you) or God's Will. I used to follow the idea of being a person, I haven't found a lot of scriptural basis for that. I don't understand the idea of Gabriel being the Holy Spirit of Islam either, though (you'll have to PM me or open a new topic and 'explain this.
)(By the way, I'm back off holiday. Did anyone miss me? :hug
Oh wow, open up a can of worms with this one.
The more I read up on the Holy Spirit, the more I believe it's just a term for Shekinah (Sakina for you) or God's Will. I used to follow the idea of being a person, I haven't found a lot of scriptural basis for that. I don't understand the idea of Gabriel being the Holy Spirit of Islam either, though (you'll have to PM me or open a new topic and 'explain this.
(By the way, I'm back off holiday. Did anyone miss me? :hug
Response: It is good to see you back. I was shocked that that was your response. It's been a while.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Thanks.
(Why were you shocked with my response?
Response: Shocked meaning I was surprised to see you back. It's been a while. Not in a bad way.
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
Am I the only one getting this guy or are you all just having fun exercising your noodles. Nothing wrong with that mind you but I see no point myself in debating a guy who positions himself in such an outright bigoted manner. I just don't see the point.
But carry on - only expressing my puzzlement here.
Response: This post is even more puzzling?