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Jesus is God the Father?

Is Jesus God the Father?


  • Total voters
    37

Special Revelation

Active Member
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before:

Matthew 28

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Acts 5 -Ananias and Sapphira

Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"
"Yes," she said, "that is the price."
Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

John 20 - Jesus Appears to Thomas

Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"

But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."

A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
We trinies just like to complicate things for the sole purpose to annoy and hopefully have someone simplify it. God forbid some truth actually be abstract and mysterious! :eek:
 

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
Matthew 28

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Acts 5 -Ananias and Sapphira

Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. With his wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles' feet.

Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God."

When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter asked her, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"
"Yes," she said, "that is the price."
Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."

At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

John 20 - Jesus Appears to Thomas

Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"

But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."


A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."

Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."


Two questions:

1. Is this supposed to have something to do with the OP?

2. Have you met Bible Truth yet?
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
We trinies just like to complicate things for the sole purpose to annoy and hopefully have someone simplify it. God forbid some truth actually be abstract and mysterious! :eek:

of course quoting scripture is truth - but it begs the question "so what?" Certain posters would benefit by answering the "so what?" question for the scriptures they post.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Jesus is not God the Father. Jesus is God the Son. The Father is the Creator. The Son is the Redeemer.
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
I'm interested in hearing trinitarians' perspective on this exact phrase.

Okay well I am a trinitarian and I say NO:

God the Father
does not =
God the Son
does not =
God the Holy Spirit

Trinity
 

Special Revelation

Active Member
Jesus is not God the Father. Jesus is God the Son. The Father is the Creator. The Son is the Redeemer.

Special Revelation - God the Father and God the Son are seperate and distinct persons. Yet, "God the Father and God the Son are one"; "even though you do not believe me, believe in the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father".

John 10

Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"

"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. Here he stayed and many people came to him. They said, "Though John never performed a miraculous sign, all that John said about this man was true."
And in that place many believed in Jesus.
 

!Fluffy!

Lacking Common Sense
There is much misunderstanding of the the Logos, a lot of which is addressed in the links supplied in my previous post.

However one way to understand the relationship of Father to Son is to understand the ability of that culture to lend personification to individual words, as well as to concepts (as when wisdom is capitalized and referred to as "she").

Also one can see a man and woman in a deeply loving, symbiotic marriage for many years, view the separate personalities of the two, and then again perceive their love or their relationship as a personality unto itself. When you invite them to dinner, they finish each other's sentences, and appear almost as one personality. But when you speak to them separately you have no doubt they have individual personalities.

If one can begin to imagine the sheer magnitude of God and His attributes, the overwhelming power of His every thought, one can begin to imagine that His spoken word itself is capable of personality, His wisdom is capable of personality.

That is a beginning to understand the complexities of the trinity, not the entire concept but a beginning first step to the whole picture.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Is most of your logic corrupted by Pharisees…..the gospel of John is fake and said about the father being Yeshua……Paul doesn’t know what he is on with half the time and so many notice he is anti-Christ…..Simon is the stone (peter) and so even that is easily removed also with Yeshua calling him Satan…..
On removing these this argument doesn’t exist, neither does the ones with most other religions…….
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
God the father
God the Son
God the Holy Ghost

The bigger problem for Catholics Orthodox and some Protestants is the Filioque
They may have a small Idea how the Father and Son come together, but they no Idea there is even a problem of where the Holy Ghost fits in ... or Proceeds from.
Yet this is a sticking point between the Catholics and Orthodox.

The problem of the trinity has existed since the birth of Christianity.

Every one from earliest times Accepted God the father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
The argument has always been how you resolve these three facts into a single god head.

I am not able to take sides on this.
I have read each sides arguments and I have not yet seen the perfect convincing answer.

I accept the trinity as unexplained.

So I can not answer the question" is Jesus God the Father"?
They are both part of the trinity therefore both God.
but they are certainly not each other.
 

JayHawes

Active Member
What many dont understand is that Jesus only became known as Jesus when he was born in this world by Mary, before then the name of Jesus was just prophecy, meaning "Jehovah is Salvation" or "Jehovah saves." Jesus' true name no one knows, but in the OT Jesus goes by a different name.

Is God a trinity? Yes, Read this Passage:

Ge 18:1And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;Ge 18:2And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,


Abraham here saw the LORD God appear, and he saw three men...presumably, The Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit.

Is Jesus God the Father? No he is not.

God the Father is the Judge, the one who commands.
God the Son is the Mediator, the one who acts on those commands.
God the Holy Spirit is God's presense within Mankind

Is Jesus God? Yes ( Col 2:9)
Is the Father God? Yes (John 8:24)
Is the Holy Spirit God? Yes (Acts 5:3)

Col 2:9For in him(Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The word translated Godhead is theotes, meaning: diety, the state of being God.
Jesus was God in the flesh.

Also take time to read Hebrews Chapter 1, in it God the Father refers to Jesus as God. What is confusing to us is how three beings can be one God...the asnwer is that we cannot fully understand the true nature of God. He is beyond our reality and demision, and exists without time, without sin, without wrong, and with all knowledge. He is able whether we understand or not, to do all things. And is not limited in who he is to our own understanding.
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
of course quoting scripture is truth - but it begs the question "so what?" Certain posters would benefit by answering the "so what?" question for the scriptures they post.
I'm game for discussing theological theories, but this is more then attempting to do such a thing. Unfortunately, some won't look beyond their own interpretation.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
That closes the argument/ discussion.:beach:
Not really, because I believe the exact same thing, and yet I have been told that I believe in a "different" Jesus because I don't believe that Jesus is the same "person" as the Father - so there is still plenty to discuss.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Not really, because I believe the exact same thing, and yet I have been told that I believe in a "different" Jesus because I don't believe that Jesus is the same "person" as the Father - so there is still plenty to discuss.
Jesus is not the same person as the Father, however He is one with the Father: In the begginging was the Word (Jesus) was with God and the Word WAS God.
 

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
Jesus is not the same person as the Father, however He is one with the Father: In the begginging was the Word (Jesus) was with God and the Word WAS God.

Im interested - that says WAS - which points to the past - it doesnt say IS. So does that mean from your trinitarian point of view that Jesus isnt God anymore?
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Jesus is not the same person as the Father, however He is one with the Father: In the begginging was the Word (Jesus) was with God and the Word WAS God.
You see - I agree with that, and yet we have a very fundamental difference in what we believe being "one with the Father" means. I believe this thread is an attempt to get at what that difference is exactly.

It seems to me that you are trying to say that Christ <> the Father, and yet Christ = the Father. I can accept that, because there are certain ways in which Christ = the Father (purpose, perfection, attributes, desires, etc) and other ways in which Christ <> the Father (they are different "beings", different "substance", etc).

So, in what ways do you believe that Christ = the Father and in what wasy does Christ <> the Father?
 
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