SoyLeche
meh...
So, why did you vote for the Jesus <> the Father option?
My wife and I are one too. I seem to recall someone using that example earlier (and it wasn't a Mormon).
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Jesus is God the Father?
- Thread starter Katzpur
- Start date
My wife and I are one too. I seem to recall someone using that example earlier (and it wasn't a Mormon).
SoyLeche
meh...
By the way - check out John 17:11, 20-23.
JayHawes
Active Member
I dont know whether or not you are agreeing with me or disagreeing or trying to use these verses to push the idea exaltation to god-hood.
So, if you are agreeing with me yes.
If no, These verses meaning "to become one" is references to the Body of Christ, not exaltation to god-hood.
Ro 12:5 -So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
The Body of Christ is the TRUE Church. Not one specific body or group,as it is just a lie to say so.
SoyLeche
meh...
Actually, I think I am agreeing with you, but I don't think you think I am. Like I've said, our beliefs on this subject really don't seem to be all that different - mostly coming to semantics.
Christ wanted them to be "one" LIKE "he and his Father are one". Yet, there were still 12 of them, and he was talking about countless others. So, you can have multiple "beings" who are "one". Remember - the marriage example, which someone thought was an argument in favor of the trinity, but is really a better argument for a "Godhead".
I'm not using this as an argument for exaltation to god-hood, although that argument is there too.
AlsoAnima
Friend
It's more complicated than that.
Under the trinity, the following statements are true.
Jesus is NOT the Father.
Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus IS God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.
The Holy Spirit IS God.
The Father is NOT Jesus.
The Father is NOT The Holy Spirit
The Father IS God.
Under the trinity, the following statements are true.
Jesus is NOT the Father.
Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus IS God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.
The Holy Spirit IS God.
The Father is NOT Jesus.
The Father is NOT The Holy Spirit
The Father IS God.
logician
Well-Known Member
"Under the trinity, the following statements are true.
Jesus is NOT the Father.
Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus IS God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.
The Holy Spirit IS God.
The Father is NOT Jesus.
The Father is NOT The Holy Spirit
The Father IS God.
"
I'd sure like to the thunderbolts thrown around when there's a disagreement amongst these parties.
Jesus is NOT the Father.
Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus IS God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.
The Holy Spirit IS God.
The Father is NOT Jesus.
The Father is NOT The Holy Spirit
The Father IS God.
"
I'd sure like to the thunderbolts thrown around when there's a disagreement amongst these parties.
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
No. The Son is not the Father. They are different persons, but one God.
AlsoAnima
Friend
Not as far as I know.
CarlinKnew
Well-Known Member
It's more complicated than that.
Under the trinity, the following statements are true.
Jesus is NOT the Father.
Jesus is NOT the Holy Spirit.
Jesus IS God.
The Holy Spirit is NOT Jesus
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.
The Holy Spirit IS God.
The Father is NOT Jesus.
The Father is NOT The Holy Spirit
The Father IS God.
So the transitive law needs to be rewritten as:
If A=B and B=C then A=C*
*except when B is god
Magic overrules logic.
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
Probably not for him.
logician
Well-Known Member
As a supposed god then, he should have done something about it.
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
I don't think you get Christianity at all. Or, (hopefully), you're just deliberately stubborn and enjoy playing the fool for our good enjoyment.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Logician sees his one-liners as witty and caustic. The rest of us see them as a juvenile attempt to distract.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Okay, here's where I get lost... They are different persons. I understand that. And all three are divine. What is a divine person if not God? You can say that there are three persons, and you can say that a person is a being. You can also say that God is a Being. But somehow you can't say that there are three divine Beings because that changes everything.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Jehovah's Witnesses are also non-Trinitarians. I know some people say they're not "real Christians" but I don't think the people who say other people aren't "real Christians" are real Christians. So I guess it all evens out.
Also, Christian Unitarian Universalists generally reject the doctrine of the Trinity.
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
I am not certain that calling the persons of the Trinity "three divine beings" would be correct. Technically speaking, they are one in being, so they are three persons but one being. I do not think Trinitarian theology equates person with being.
God, in the singular, is in himself a plurality, a communion of persons. This is the secret of his inner life. These are not, shall we say, external relations, so that we can speak of three different people in dialogue such as you, I and another. The Trinity is the dynamics of what occurs inside God.
God, in the singular, is in himself a plurality, a communion of persons. This is the secret of his inner life. These are not, shall we say, external relations, so that we can speak of three different people in dialogue such as you, I and another. The Trinity is the dynamics of what occurs inside God.
free spirit
Well-Known Member
Hi! there mind if I join you?
I personally have not given much importance to the theory of the trinity, because it try to describe God as a form of existence, which i find unhelpful in my quest for holiness. But in Matthew 28: 19, we read, "go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and the son, and the holy spirit."
and genesis 3: 22, we read, "then the lord god said, "behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." so we must conclude that some how he is more than one, forming one god. The trinity is an invented word to explain that mystery; but strangely i see myself as a trinity, because i am in reality three different things such as; my conscience, my soul, and my body, which all together is me, and when you speak to me you affect each one of them in a different manner, like my conscience will judge your moral standing, my soul will decide if i can collaborate with you, my body language will tell me if we can be together in harmony. Also that is the way we make our decisions; have you ever made a decision in which no all of you were in agreement, wasn't that a strange experience.
in conclusion to try to explain God as a trinity is a waste of time for it does not makes us any better or any worse if we believe it or not. Like has it made much difference to you; to know that your conscience is independent from your mind, and that your body is independent from your mind and conscience; they are all individuals necessary to make the one, YOU.
I personally have not given much importance to the theory of the trinity, because it try to describe God as a form of existence, which i find unhelpful in my quest for holiness. But in Matthew 28: 19, we read, "go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and the son, and the holy spirit."
and genesis 3: 22, we read, "then the lord god said, "behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever." so we must conclude that some how he is more than one, forming one god. The trinity is an invented word to explain that mystery; but strangely i see myself as a trinity, because i am in reality three different things such as; my conscience, my soul, and my body, which all together is me, and when you speak to me you affect each one of them in a different manner, like my conscience will judge your moral standing, my soul will decide if i can collaborate with you, my body language will tell me if we can be together in harmony. Also that is the way we make our decisions; have you ever made a decision in which no all of you were in agreement, wasn't that a strange experience.
in conclusion to try to explain God as a trinity is a waste of time for it does not makes us any better or any worse if we believe it or not. Like has it made much difference to you; to know that your conscience is independent from your mind, and that your body is independent from your mind and conscience; they are all individuals necessary to make the one, YOU.
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