Jesus is God the Father?

[JayHawes]

Many can't understand that God is not God's name but his title, so when we say Jesus is God, we are giving him a title, when we say the father is God we are giving him a title. Confusion arises becuase the Jews, along with most people today view The Father's name as God. So when we say Jesus is God, some get confused. But dont be, becuase Jesus is the Godhead (Romans 1:20,Col 2:9) meaning he is diety, divine, being God along with the Father, The judge, being God.

 

[SoyLeche]

Many can't understand that God is not God's name but his title, so when we say Jesus is God, we are giving him a title, when we say the father is God we are giving him a title. Confusion arises becuase the Jews, along with most people today view The Father's name as God. So when we say Jesus is God, some get confused. But dont be, becuase Jesus is the Godhead (Romans 1:20,Col 2:9) meaning he is diety, divine, being God along with the Father, The judge, being God.

Again - the LDS church teaches pretty much that exact thing, and we are told that we believe that the relationship between Christ and the Father is different then the rest of Christianity believes it is. I'm more confused about how (some) trinitarians believe Christ and the Father are related now then I was before this thread. It seems they are saying that what I believe is true, but I'm pretty sure they don't actually believe that.

 

[Katzpur]

Many can't understand that God is not God's name but his title, so when we say Jesus is God, we are giving him a title, when we say the father is God we are giving him a title.

That is an absolutely perfect explanation. :yes:

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Many can't understand that God is not God's name but his title, so when we say Jesus is God, we are giving him a title, when we say the father is God we are giving him a title. Confusion arises becuase the Jews, along with most people today view The Father's name as God. So when we say Jesus is God, some get confused. But dont be, becuase Jesus is the Godhead (Romans 1:20,Col 2:9) meaning he is diety, divine, being God along with the Father, The judge, being God.

That makes excellent sense - however because i know you are a trinitarian, i am now confused! As the explanation you have just given is the explanation for rejecting the trinity!

 

[joeboonda]

So, in what ways do you believe that Christ = the Father and in what wasy does Christ <> the Father?

I am not saying Christ is the Father, for Christ is the Son. Just like the Holy Spirit is not Christ or the Father. What I am saying is that these three persons make up the only one true God. They are not separate Gods, they make up the one God. An example (if it works, fine, if not forget it) is a man and woman cleave together in marriage and become one flesh. Two people now are one. God is three persons that are one. I cannot say they are 3 different Gods, for there is but one God, so they are 3 persons that make up the one and only God. The Three-in-One and One-in-Three and the One in the middle died for me!

 

[SoyLeche]

I am not saying Christ is the Father, for Christ is the Son. Just like the Holy Spirit is not Christ or the Father. What I am saying is that these three persons make up the only one true God. They are not separate Gods, they make up the one God. An example (if it works, fine, if not forget it) is a man and woman cleave together in marriage and become one flesh. Two people now are one. God is three persons that are one. I cannot say they are 3 different Gods, for there is but one God, so they are 3 persons that make up the one and only God. The Three-in-One and One-in-Three and the One in the middle died for me!

You just described almost perfectly what the LDS church teaches. Where do we have it wrong then?

 

[Aqualung]

Mosiah 5:7

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters.

Mosiah 7:27

27 And because he said unto them that Christ was the God, the Father of all things, and said that he should take upon him the image of man, and it should be the image after which man was created in the beginning; or in other words, he said that man was created after the image of God, and that God should come down among the children of men, and take upon him flesh and blood, and go forth upon the face of the earth

Alma 11:38-39

38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?
39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last;

So, yeah, I guess sometimes he's the father.

 

[Bishka]

You just described almost perfectly what the LDS church teaches. Where do we have it wrong then?

That they are "physical" beings, 'doncha' know?

 

[NomyRomy]

Is this really what Trinitarians believe?

Comments from everyone are welcome. Please do not vote unless you are a trinitarian.

Mormons don't believe in the trinity do they?

 

[Bishka]

Mormons don't believe in the trinity do they?

Not in the traditional Christian sense, no.

 

[kmkemp]

I'd like to point out that I clicked the wrong button. That's all. =P

 

[joeboonda]

You just described almost perfectly what the LDS church teaches. Where do we have it wrong then?

If I understand correctly, where we believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons making up the one and only tri-une God, Joseph Smith, the founding prophet of Mormonism taught they were three persons making up three separate gods: (the Bible says there is only one God)

Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)
SERMON BY THE PROPHET&#8212;THE CHRISTIAN GODHEAD&#8212;PLURALITY OF GODS.
Meeting in the Grove, east of the Temple, June 16, 1844.​

Prayer by Bishop Newel K. Whitney.
Choir sang, "Mortals Awake."
President Joseph Smith read the 3rd chapter of Revelation, and took for his text 1st chapter, 6th verse&#8212;"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father: to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
...I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.
I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!...

 

[SoyLeche]

If I understand correctly, where we believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons making up the one and only tri-une God, Joseph Smith, the founding prophet of Mormonism taught they were three persons making up three separate gods: (the Bible says there is only one God)

Joseph Smith's Sermon on Plurality of Gods
(as printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479)
SERMON BY THE PROPHET—THE CHRISTIAN GODHEAD—PLURALITY OF GODS.
Meeting in the Grove, east of the Temple, June 16, 1844.​

Prayer by Bishop Newel K. Whitney.
Choir sang, "Mortals Awake."
President Joseph Smith read the 3rd chapter of Revelation, and took for his text 1st chapter, 6th verse—"And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father: to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
...I will preach on the plurality of Gods. I have selected this text for that express purpose. I wish to declare I have always and in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of the Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods. It has been preached by the Elders for fifteen years.
I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods. If this is in accordance with the New Testament, lo and behold! we have three Gods anyhow, and they are plural: and who can contradict it!...

We believe in three Gods that make up one God. You believe in three Gods that make up one God. You have said that the three are different "persons". Joseph Smith said they are different "personages". I fail to see the difference, unless you actually do believe that they are one "personage".

It seems to me that the Trinity is an attempt to shove a square "polytheistic" peg into a round "monotheistic" hole anyway. It just seems like we are willing to accept that our one God is made up of three beings, where you are willing to say that you do, but then in the next breath say that believing that one God is made up of three beings is heresy.

So, again - in what ways are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost equal and in what ways are they not equal? I've already told you some of the ways I believe they are equal and not equal, and you have quoted Joseph Smith doing the same. Is God three persons or one person? Is he three "personages" or one "personage"? Is he three "beings" or one "being"?

 

[joeboonda]

We believe in three Gods that make up one God. You believe in three Gods that make up one God. You have said that the three are different "persons". Joseph Smith said they are different "personages". I fail to see the difference, unless you actually do believe that they are one "personage".

It seems to me that the Trinity is an attempt to shove a square "polytheistic" peg into a round "monotheistic" hole anyway. It just seems like we are willing to accept that our one God is made up of three beings, where you are willing to say that you do, but then in the next breath say that believing that one God is made up of three beings is heresy.

So, again - in what ways are the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost equal and in what ways are they not equal? I've already told you some of the ways I believe they are equal and not equal, and you have quoted Joseph Smith doing the same. Is God three persons or one person? Is he three "personages" or one "personage"? Is he three "beings" or one "being"?

Joseph Smith in his sermon said: " and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods."

We say they are three personages, and one God. That is the difference.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Joseph Smith in his sermon said: " and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods."

We say they are three personages, and one God. That is the difference.

See now trinitarians in the past have told me you believe they are all the same person God the father, God the Son and God the holy spirit. If what you say is true then you believe in three Gods.

 

[jonny]

In the Book of Mormon we learn that we become children of Christ when we join His church. In this sense he could be referred to as our father, but he is not God the Father. I believe he made this pretty clear himself while on earth. Either that or he was a schizophrenic.

 

[jonny]

I screwed up my vote. Sorry. Subtract 1 from the 'yes' votes.

 

[SoyLeche]

Joseph Smith in his sermon said: " and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods."

We say they are three personages, and one God. That is the difference.

Joseph Smith said that to emphasize that they are different personages. They all constitute one Godhead (there are no Gods competing with each other).

I'm thinking that most of our disagreement is one of semantics. You believe in 3 Gods but feel you have to call them one God. I believe in the same three Gods and don't have as big a problem with saying that they are 3 Gods that constitute one God.

Would you care to answer my questions at the bottom of the other post?

 

[joeboonda]

See now trinitarians in the past have told me you believe they are all the same person God the father, God the Son and God the holy spirit. If what you say is true then you believe in three Gods.

No, we believe God is one God made up of three persons. Please, I ask kindly for people not to tell me what I believe, ("...then you believe in three Gods.") I know you all do not like it when we do that, and we are quite guilty of that, too. All I can say is I believe in one God consisting of three persons. They are all part of the same deity. I think I used this before, but a man and woman are joined together and become one. 2 persons becoming one. God is 3 persons who are one unity, one God. Anyway, that is what I believe and I know it is a difficult concept for anyone to try to explain God, lol. That's the best I can do for today.
Love and Peace,
Mike

 

[JayHawes]

Jesus wasn't crazy... he said: Joh 10:30 "I and my Father are one"

He said one not two. The person of God is Omnipresent, able to be everyone and one time...Jesus and the Father are one God.