Jesus is not God

[JerryMyers]

It looks like you're trying to use archaic translation, based on inferior sources and written in a dead language, to your own advantage.

John 1:18...

CSB: No one has ever seen God. The one and only Son, who is himself God and is at the Father’s side—he has revealed him.
CEV: No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.
ERV: No one has ever seen God. The only Son is the one who has shown us what God is like. He is himself God and is very close to the Father.
EASY: Nobody has ever seen God. But God's only Son has shown God to us. He is very near to the Father, and he himself is God.
EXB: No one has ever seen God [God the Father, who is pure spirit; 4:24]. But ·God the only Son [God the one and only; the only Son who is himself God; T God the only begotten] is ·very close to [by the side of; close to the heart of; T in the bosom of] the Father, and he has ·shown us what God is like [made him known].
GNT: No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
LEB: No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
MOUNCE: No one has ever seen God. The only Son, himself God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.
NCB: No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, God, who is at the Father’s side, who has made him known.
NET: No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
NIV: No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
NLT: No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart. He has revealed God to us.
NRSVUE: No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.
TLV: No one has ever seen God; but the one and only God, in the Father’s embrace, has made Him known.

John 1:1, in every single translation has the bolded words in some form...

Here is a selection...

ESV: and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
KJV: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (entire verse)
NASB: and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NET: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was fully God.
NIV: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NLT: In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NRSVue: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
RSV: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
YLT: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

In summary, every single translation has Jesus Christ, God's son, as being fully God.

You can deny it and put a different spin on it, but the fact remains: Jesus Christ, God's son, is Himself fully God.

It clearly looks like you are trying to rewrite the truth, as contained in every single translation of God's Word (The Bible) to your own advantage. However, the truth remains: Jesus is God.

Still mumbling nonsense, are you?? Stop making yourself sound like someone incapable of thinking!

Here’s the thing – Jesus IS NOT God!! Why??

- because God Almighty NEVER says Jesus is God!

- because Jesus himself NEVER says or implies he’s God!

- because in your own Bible, Jesus denied he’s God!!

So, if Jesus already denied he’s God in your own Bible (don’t ignore that fact), do you think the likes of John 1:1 and John 1:18 are saying Jesus is God??! John 1:1 and John 1:18 are NOT even the words of Jesus!! Don’t be so gullible!! THINK!!

Looks like Trinitarians like you believe the words of other people rather than the words of Jesus!!

 

[Oeste]

Ehrman gives a good account of the matter here >

Ehrman?? The "agnostic/atheist" who says he's not a Christian?

Ehrman is about as far removed from a prophet as one can achieve. It's like a 1st Century Christian going to the temple and asking for guidance on The Way from a Pharisee.

No, that is something scripture expressly states. I gave you some of the quotes

Sure. you gave quotes but they were addressed and refuted.

There is no reference to or inference of a Trinity in the NT.

And no mention of gravity before Isaac Newton.

Which results in many versions of Christianity, each of them an attempt at a synthesis from NT sources that are not in fact compatible on a range of matters.

God, through his grace, has granted us many teachers through the ages. We are all unique and different, each of us has a spiritual path that God provides, and some are further along this path than others.

As for Christian, we are not all the same but we are all part of the body of Christ. We should not expect to see a hand when we look at a foot.

One blatant example of irreconcilable NT texts is the nonsense about the genealogies of Joseph in Matthew and Luke, each incompatible with the other and each pointless since out loud and proud Joseph is NOT the father of Jesus anyway, making descent from David irrelevant.

I've often lamented the fact that when it comes to explaining scripture, it's the Trinitarians who are expected to explain things while or Unitarian friends slowly recede into the background.

The fact is, the historic church would not have survived the 2nd or 3rd Century had it relied on the heresy of the Unitarians.

But since skeptics sing in the same "anti-Trinity" choir, this affords our Unitarian, Oneness and even the Bahai a golden opportunity to shine and explain our bible's "nonsense" genealogies to our dear readers.

Give them a few days on this. I'm sure they can do it and explain it to you adequately. Perhaps the WT or the Baháʼu'lláh have a few words to say on this very subject? After all, defending the word of God would have fallen on their shoulders if we weren't around.

Mark's Jesus, as you know, says that a messiah doesn't need descent from David anyway (Mark 12:35-37), though neither Paul nor the other gospel authors agree with him.

I fear even the JW's may think you're singing off key with that one. In light of the fact that God promised David that his descendants would reign over the people of God, and that the kingdom would be eternal, can you tell us exactly where in Mark 12:35-37 it states that the Messiah doesn't need descent from David?

David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:​

“Sit at my right hand​

until I put your enemies​

under your feet.”’[h]​

37 David himself calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”​

I don't think the Tanakh has much to do with Christianity.

Is this some nonsense from Ehrman again?? Small wonder you're such a skeptic @blü 2!

Jesus was a Jew. His apostles were Jews. They quote from the Tanakh, and just about every secular historian agrees that Christianity sprung from Jewish origins.

The Hebrew bible looms LARGE with Christianity with Protestants including the Hebrew bible as our Old Testament. It's just that the books aren't in the same order.

All those purported 'prophecies', for a 'messiah' who is neither a civil, military or religious leader of the Jewish nation nor anointed by the Jewish priesthood, which as you know is the meaning of 'messiah' and in Greek the 'Christ' part of Jesus' title

The Messiah is from God, not the Jewish nation. If from the Jewish nation, all they would have had to do is have the King, Sanhedrin, Priest or whoever they thought sufficiently authoritative at the time to make a decree that, yes indeed, so-and-so is our new, official Messiah, with all the power, duties, responsibilities, and privileges thereof.

Of course, the Jews tried this a few times but it never quite worked out. The good news is that, while Israel's self appointed Messiahs died like men, the Son of God is eternal, just as promised to David.

Also, the meaning we attach to words are not binding on God's intent. What we bind on earth does not bind what is in heaven, as we do not have the authority. Whereas what happens in Mt. Olympus will always be bound from earth, because we created the pagan Gods, and they will always do as we say and say what we mean.

Lastly, even the intent we attach to words now may not be the same meaning attached to words at the time they were written. The important thing, the most accurate thing we can do with scripture is to discern the original intent of the author.

Think it through. If this verse tells us Jesus is not God because because there is only one God, the Father, then it is also telling us that the Father is not Lord, because we have only one Lord, Jesus Christ.

There is only one king ("God"). There is only one envoy ("Jesus"). Ain't rocket science.

This doesn't answer my point and is partially incorrect.

Nowhere in the bible does it say Jesus is not God. It only says Jesus is God and this is from a statement from the Father Himself. This shows Jesus is a lot more than an envoy, and I don't understand how you can say there is only one envoy when we have the prophets.

This sounds more like Ehrman to me.

This is not a problem for the Jesus of Paul or the Jesus of John, who, on the gnostic model, pre-existed in heaven with God and (since God was far far too pure to do it [him]self) created the material universe, regardless of Genesis ─ unlike the synoptic Jesuses, of course.

Gnostic model?

You and @Trailblazer should really get together on this. Did you read her prior post where she quotes the Baháʼu'lláh?

Here it is:

"God is pure perfection, and creatures are but imperfections. For God to descend into the conditions of existence would be the greatest of imperfections;"

Honestly @blü 2, that's a direct quote from the Baháʼu'lláh, her big man himself, and you really can't get any more gnostic than that. Here's what's confusing:

You claim both Paul and John are working from a "gnostic model". The Baháʼu'lláh obviously works on a "gnostic model". Yet @Trailblazer throws the apostle Paul under the bus as a liar and false prophet:

This is just another false verse from Paul.

So if Paul is working from an alleged gnostic model, then what she's really doing is throwing Paul and Baháʼu'lláh under the bus, unless of course, they are working under different gnostic models that compete, rather than agree with each other.

But Trailblazer doesn't disagree with you at all. So there is no competition between these alleged models. In fact she tells us the following:

I love it when people do my work for me, so thanks for those clearly laid out posts that demonstrate that Jesus is not God.

In any event, we have a number of anti-Pauline posters on the forum. Perhaps you can all get together and give us a consistent story about why we should all be anti-Pauline. After all, if skeptics can demand our gospel writers carry the exact same details about Jesus from book to book, as Christians we should also be able to demand that our anti-Pauline skeptics do the same from post to post.

It only seems fair.

 

[Trailblazer]

Nowhere in the bible does it say Jesus is not God.

Where in the bible does it say that Jesus is God?
(I am not referring to verses that you 'believe' mean that Jesus is God.)

It only says Jesus is God and this is from a statement from the Father Himself.

Can you quote a statement from the Father Himself that says that Jesus is God?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It's like a 1st Century Christian going to the temple….

Actually, 1st-Century Christians did go to the temple and worship Yahweh.

Because God, as the Jews understood Him, did not change. — Malachi 3:6

Only the way to worship Yahweh, changed.


I believe that’s a point you overlook.

 

[Oeste]

Jesus was next to God in heavens before being a human (John 1:1,2).

• Isaiah 44:24: "Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone'".
  

1. Who is the Lord, our Reedemer, at Isaiah 44:24?
2. Who is the Lord, maker of all, and not all "other" things?
3. If the Lord here is the Father, why does He claim to stretch the heavens by Himself, rather than "through" somebody else, like Jesus?
4. If the Lord here is Jesus, why is Jesus claiming to have done things by Himself, rather than with the help of the Father?
5. Since the Lord is all alone, where is Jesus if our Lord if the Father, and where is the Father if our Lord is Jesus?

6. Who is our Lord, alone:

Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

Jesus had a God when he was a Jew, and that God was the Father (John 4:21-24).

You are preaching to the choir! Jesus is God incarnate, but the incarnation is as man, because he was God. He proceeded forth from God, not the heavens.

Jesus talked about his God to his disciples after his resurrection and before ascending to his God (John 20:17).

Absolutely!

Jesus in heavens now, has a God (Rev. 3:12).

The Son of Man did not perish or "cease to exist" after his crucifixion so of course he has a God.

Where is the God-Jesus in Jesus teachings?

In scripture of course.

Even the Watchtower admits Jesus is God @Eli G, even if the JW's on this forum will not.

They just seem to forget there is only one true God and not two:

"There is only one true God" (Psalm 115:1)​

YET, when asked, JW's do not seem capable of answering whether Jesus is true God or not. Instead we read Jesus is Mighty God in the Watch Tower, but hear Jesus is NOT God on the forums. And when I ask if that means Jesus has a dual nature, as Son of Man and Son of God, JW's assure us it means nothing of the sort, because Jesus was Michael the archangel.

So, according to the Watchtower, Jesus is man, God and angel, and there is no attempt to reconcile these 3 persons of Jesus. This makes your Christology rather confusing, especially when JW's claim Jesus rises as a "spirit creature", a 4th person that appears to be somewhat different than the other three.

But let's get back to these Gods. What do we know about them?

We know these Gods "know nothing", "understand nothing", and "walk in darkness":

Psalm 82

5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.​

They walk about in darkness;​

all the foundations of the earth are shaken.​

Scripture doesn't describe Jesus as a know nothing God that runs around in darkness:

John 9:5: "When I am in the world, I am the Light of the World"​

So we know Jesus is not claiming to be one of these Gods because he knows there is only one true God.


We also know these Gods can't be real Gods as they all come under judgement:

1 God presides in the great assembly;​

he renders judgment among the “gods”:

And who is the judge of these Gods?

8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,​

for all the nations are your inheritance.​

Hmmm, this God rises up and the nations are His inheritance. Where have Christians heard that before?

If any of our Unitarian friends can answer using NT scripture, please feel free to comment.

Do you believe in Jesus' God or in any other "god"?

All Christians believe in one God, so I'm thinking this was directed to members of the Bahai' Faith? However I didn't want you to think your comments were being ignored, and while I appreciate your perspectives I disagree with a number of them.

IMO, and in the opinion of the vast majority of Christians, there is only one true, triune God. Not two Gods, one Mighty and the other Almighty, and only one God, just as scripture states. And certainly not three or more, and that includes any and all "so-called" Gods.

Anyone or anything can be "called" God. Claiming this here, that there, and/or he/she "God" was a favorite pastime of the pagans. But there is only one God that is truly God for Christians. Any other God is bogus.

​

And just as scripture tells us there is only one God, it also tells us there is but one Lord, even though there are many Gods and Lords.
______________________________________________

 

[Oeste]

Still mumbling nonsense, are you??

I think @jimb articulates his arguments extremely well. I heard no "mumbling".

Stop making yourself sound like someone incapable of thinking!

Well, let's stop here and discuss "mumbling". I see where @jimb disagreed with you, but I don't see where he mumbled anything.

Mumbling is defined as follows:

1. speaking or spoken in a quiet and indistinct way.
   "inarticulate, mumbling speeches"

Right away, we see "mumbling" requires an audio component not available on this forum. Did Jimb send you an audio file?

PLEASE.. refrain from the ad-hominems @JerryMyers. Attack the arguments, not the poster. We have enough of that in the world already.

You have great things to say. Let's hear them. That's what the forums are for.

Here’s the thing – Jesus IS NOT God!! Why??

- because God Almighty NEVER says Jesus is God!

Then who do you say "God Almighty" is? You offer no support with for your argument and from your profile I cannot tell is you are Christian, skeptic, Bahai, atheist or other.

Let me show you a few verses from Hebrews 1:

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,...

​

5. For to which of the angels did God ever say,​

“You are my Son;​

today I have become your Father...​

​

...8. But about the Son He says,​

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;​

a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.​

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;​

therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions​

by anointing you with the oil of joy​

​

These verses clearly tell us what many, like the Pharisees, did not want to hear.

1. Jesus is God (verse 8) because Jesus is fully God, and because he is only begotten Son of God. Someone begotten is ALWAYS the same as the begetter. Cows do not give birth to goats.​

​

2. Jesus is Man, (verse 9) because Jesus is fully man as the Son of Man, being borne by Mary, and all men have a God.​

- because Jesus himself NEVER says or implies he’s God!

Jesus told us only God is good, which shows Jesus is God. If you believe Jesus is no good or not good enough for some reason, please tell us why.

- because in your own Bible, Jesus denied he’s God!!

So, if Jesus already denied he’s God in your own Bible (don’t ignore that fact), do you think the likes of John 1:1 and John 1:18 are saying Jesus is God??! John 1:1 and John 1:18 are NOT even the words of Jesus!! Don’t be so gullible!! THINK!!

Well let's THINK about this then. We'll do a simple thought experiment. It will require a bit of thinking but only requires you to don the role of Christian if you are not one.

You announce, much like you did here that "JESUS NEVER SAID HE WAS GOD!" Trinitarians object, but you point out that Jesus never actually said "I am God" anywhere in scripture. Trinitarians raise other scriptures but the chant "Never said it!" fills the room and spreads like wildfire, causing Christians to "THINK" the world over. After great ponderance and thoughtful dwelling on this important revelation, an epiphany is reached:

"HEY, Wait a minute! @JerryMyers is absolutely correct! Jesus NEVER said "I am God", now that I've really thought about it."​

Thanks to the revelation you provide, Trinitarianism vanishes, and no one thinks Jesus is God anymore. Why? Because Jesus never said it! Even the Bahai's thank you for ridding the world of this "unscriptural" doctrine.

You do the usual TV, Talk Show, and Guest Lecture interviews. As you're about to end your tour you wrap up by saying "Remember, Jesus Christ our Lord is NOT G..." when someone from the audience screams at you:

THINK!​

A hushed silence comes over the room. You say "But we already have thought about it, and Jesus is not God..."

But by then, protestors are waving signs that looks something like this:

​

Jesus is not the Lord and Jesus is not God.​

​

Only the Lord is God.​

​

1. Jesus is not the Lord.​

You protest (unless you're an atheist, agnostic or Bahai) but the protestors insist. Why!? Because Jesus never said it!

You search the scriptures, ready to slay this heresy but the chant "Never said it!" fills the lecture hall and spreads like wildfire, causing Christians to "THINK" the world over. Once again, after great ponderance and thoughtful dwelling on this important spiritual issue, an epiphany is reached:

"HEY, Wait a minute!", they announce, "Those protestors are absolutely correct! Jesus NEVER said "I am Lord", now that I've really thought about it".

Thanks to this new revelation Christianity vanishes, and no one thinks Jesus is Lord anymore. Why!? Because Jesus never said it! Once again the Bahai's thank you for providing a forum to help rid the world of this "unscriptural" doctrine.

End of thought experiment


So is Jesus not God or Lord??!

Of course he is God just as he is Lord! Why?

Because the Father clearly states Jesus is God at Hebrews 1:8. We do not need to have Jesus say "I am only a Man", "I am God" or "I am Lord".

So is Jesus not a man?

Of course he is man!

Is Jesus not Lord?

Of course he is Lord!

Jesus is God: 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.​

Jesus is Man: 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.​

Jesus is Lord: 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:​

Yet there is ONE Lord, and ONE God, not two or three.

We can plainly see why @Trailblazer, a non-Christian, would allege the apostle Paul is a false prophet, and why Jesus is not Lord. I see no need to join in on the chorus.

Looks like Trinitarians like you believe the words of other people rather than the words of Jesus!!

No, it's just that we do not assume words Jesus did not say. If you have "...the words of Jesus" claiming something at odds with "the words of the Father" as stated at Hebrews 1:8-10, then please, let our readers know what these words are and where we can find them in scripture.

 

[Oeste]

It's like a 1st Century Christian going to the temple and asking for guidance on The Way from a Pharisee.

Actually, 1st-Century Christians did go to the temple and worship Yahweh.

Hi Hockeycowboy,

I see where I said 1st Century Christians went to temple, but not where I said they didn't.

I believe that’s a point you overlook.

You might have to elaborate a bit more.

 

[blü 2]

Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah. This was the belief of the first "Christians", who were all Jews.

Yet Jesus was neither a civil, military or religious leader of the Jewish people, nor ever anointed by the Jewish priesthood ─ qualities defining a genuine messiah. Nor did he relieve the Jews of their Roman servitude and restore their political independence, one of the main themes of those apocalyptic times in Judea and Galilee.

The Christians are free to attribute whatever they like to the objects of their faith. I'd argue that by the time John was written (where the Jews are portrayed as enemies), it was already a distinct religion. So Jesus can be the Christian messiah if that's what Christians want, but they can't make him a Jewish messiah, because he simply didn't qualify.

 

[Oeste]

Where in the bible does it say that Jesus is God?
(I am not referring to verses that you 'believe' mean that Jesus is God.)

Where in the bible does it say "Jesus is not God"?
(I am not referring to verses that you 'believe' mean that Jesus is not God.)

As a side note, I don't believe there is any burden of proof on me to show this at all. The burden of proof lies with the disbelievers, as the vast majority of Christian believers already know Jesus is God.

As far as Jesus saying "I am God" I think the necessity of such a statement has been debunked. So if you can show us where Jesus says "I'm not God" rather than some statement you think says that, I'll provide you with more statements.

Can you quote a statement from the Father Himself that says that Jesus is God?

Why?

The burden has not shifted, and you've already stated that you don't believe large swaths of the Christian bible. You are a non-Christian, so nothing I show you will convince you unless you determine it agrees with something the Baháʼu'lláh has previously written about. Please provide a statement where the Father says Jesus is not God, preferably one where readers don't have to twist, churn or switch direct objects and pronouns to show a preferred meaning.

I'll make this even easier. Can you quote a statement from Jesus where he says he's a carpenter, and if not, is this "proof" or "evidence" he was never a carpenter at all?

The problem is in your technique Trailblazer. You are a "proof-texting", and "proof-texting" only takes a reader so far. And yes, Trinitarians can "proof-text" all day long.

Lastly, it might help if you can show where the Christian bible indicates that the biblical canon would be reopened, and that the Baháʼu'lláh would appear, ready and authorized to change the teachings of Jesus as a "manifestation" of God. As it is, Jesus tells us many false prophets would arise, but never a true prophet.

2 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. (2 Peter)​

 

[blü 2]

Where in the bible does it say "Jesus is not God"?

I've already given you a sample, but here again are all five versions of Jesus denying that they're God ─

Philippians 2:
8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Colossians 1:
3 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 ... 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Mark 2:
10 But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins ...

Mark 9
36 And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.

Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the first of all?”
29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;
30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [...]
32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew 20:
23 He said to them, “You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Matthew 24:
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

Luke 18:
18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 5:
19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 5
30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me ...

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, “... 29 My Father ... is greater than all”.

John 14:6 “No one comes to the Father but by me.” (Incompatible with triune concept,)

John 14
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me; or else believe me for the sake of the works themselves. 12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; 14 if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. 15 “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,

John 17:
3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20
17 Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”​

It's simply the case that all five versions of Jesus in the NT deny that they're God and never claims to be God. On a previous occasion I pointed out to you that "Lord", as Paul expressly states, is a title for Jesus distinct from "God" (a reading affirmed by my Greek dictionary, as I quoted you.)

Jesus did eventually become God, on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine in the 4th century. I also referred you to the fact that the standard version of the doctrine is called by the churches "a mystery in the strict sense, in that it cannot be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation nor cogently demonstrated by reason after it has been revealed". And I added that this is itself a reasonable definition of "nonsense" (and I explained the nonsense here >Why So Much Trinity Bashing?<). But it's the church's nonsense, and so the majority of Christians, unlike the NT, hold that Jesus is God (and the Ghost too).

 

[Trailblazer]

The Christians are free to attribute whatever they like to the objects of their faith. I'd argue that by the time John was written (where the Jews are portrayed as enemies), it was already a distinct religion. So Jesus can be the Christian messiah if that's what Christians want, but they can't make him a Jewish messiah, because he simply didn't qualify.

Not only was Jesus not the Jewish messiah for the reasons that you have, he is not the Jewish messiah because he did not fulfill the OT prophecies that the Jewish messiah was expected to fulfill. The flimsy excuse that Jesus will fulfill those prophecies at his second coming just doesn't cut it and cannot ever happen because Jesus said that his work was finished here and he was no more in the world.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Yet Jesus was neither a civil, military or religious leader of the Jewish people, nor ever anointed by the Jewish priesthood ─ qualities defining a genuine messiah.

According to whom? Where’s the Scripture which assigns these requirements to the Messiah?

The only requirement closest to these, was the requirement to descend from king David.

And today, with the records destroyed in 70 ce, no one can verify such a distinction!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

I think @jimb articulates his arguments extremely well. I heard no "mumbling".



Well, let's stop here and discuss "mumbling". I see where @jimb disagreed with you, but I don't see where he mumbled anything.

Mumbling is defined as follows:

1. speaking or spoken in a quiet and indistinct way.
   "inarticulate, mumbling speeches"

Right away, we see "mumbling" requires an audio component not available on this forum. Did Jimb send you an audio file?

PLEASE.. refrain from the ad-hominems @JerryMyers. Attack the arguments, not the poster. We have enough of that in the world already.

You have great things to say. Let's hear them. That's what the forums are for.



Then who do you say "God Almighty" is? You offer no support with for your argument and from your profile I cannot tell is you are Christian, skeptic, Bahai, atheist or other.

Let me show you a few verses from Hebrews 1:

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,...

​

5. For to which of the angels did God ever say,​

“You are my Son;​

today I have become your Father...​

​

...8. But about the Son He says,​

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;​

a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.​

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;​

therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions​

by anointing you with the oil of joy​

​

These verses clearly tell us what many, like the Pharisees, did not want to hear.

1. Jesus is God (verse 8) because Jesus is fully God, and because he is only begotten Son of God. Someone begotten is ALWAYS the same as the begetter. Cows do not give birth to goats.​

​

2. Jesus is Man, (verse 9) because Jesus is fully man as the Son of Man, being borne by Mary, and all men have a God.​

Jesus told us only God is good, which shows Jesus is God. If you believe Jesus is no good or not good enough for some reason, please tell us why.



Well let's THINK about this then. We'll do a simple thought experiment. It will require a bit of thinking but only requires you to don the role of Christian if you are not one.

You announce, much like you did here that "JESUS NEVER SAID HE WAS GOD!" Trinitarians object, but you point out that Jesus never actually said "I am God" anywhere in scripture. Trinitarians raise other scriptures but the chant "Never said it!" fills the room and spreads like wildfire, causing Christians to "THINK" the world over. After great ponderance and thoughtful dwelling on this important revelation, an epiphany is reached:

"HEY, Wait a minute! @JerryMyers is absolutely correct! Jesus NEVER said "I am God", now that I've really thought about it."​

Thanks to the revelation you provide, Trinitarianism vanishes, and no one thinks Jesus is God anymore. Why? Because Jesus never said it! Even the Bahai's thank you for ridding the world of this "unscriptural" doctrine.

You do the usual TV, Talk Show, and Guest Lecture interviews. As you're about to end your tour you wrap up by saying "Remember, Jesus Christ our Lord is NOT G..." when someone from the audience screams at you:

THINK!​

A hushed silence comes over the room. You say "But we already have thought about it, and Jesus is not God..."

But by then, protestors are waving signs that looks something like this:

​

​

​

You protest (unless you're an atheist, agnostic or Bahai) but the protestors insist. Why!? Because Jesus never said it!

You search the scriptures, ready to slay this heresy but the chant "Never said it!" fills the lecture hall and spreads like wildfire, causing Christians to "THINK" the world over. Once again, after great ponderance and thoughtful dwelling on this important spiritual issue, an epiphany is reached:

"HEY, Wait a minute!", they announce, "Those protestors are absolutely correct! Jesus NEVER said "I am Lord", now that I've really thought about it".

Thanks to this new revelation Christianity vanishes, and no one thinks Jesus is Lord anymore. Why!? Because Jesus never said it! Once again the Bahai's thank you for providing a forum to help rid the world of this "unscriptural" doctrine.

End of thought experiment


So is Jesus not God or Lord??!

Of course he is God just as he is Lord! Why?

Because the Father clearly states Jesus is God at Hebrews 1:8. We do not need to have Jesus say "I am only a Man", "I am God" or "I am Lord".

So is Jesus not a man?

Of course he is man!

Is Jesus not Lord?

Of course he is Lord!

Jesus is God: 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.​

Jesus is Man: 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.​

Jesus is Lord: 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:​

Yet there is ONE Lord, and ONE God, not two or three.

We can plainly see why @Trailblazer, a non-Christian, would allege the apostle Paul is a false prophet, and why Jesus is not Lord. I see no need to join in on the chorus.



No, it's just that we do not assume words Jesus did not say. If you have "...the words of Jesus" claiming something at odds with "the words of the Father" as stated at Hebrews 1:8-10, then please, let our readers know what these words are and where we can find them in scripture.

I’m afraid (most of) this post highlights only one thing: the problems that develop when God’s Name (probably Yahweh), the Tetragrammaton, is removed from Scripture and replaced with LORD.

People misuse it.

You know who it means, Oeste.
The Israelites worshipped Yahweh.

At John 3:16, John mentions Him:
“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed, but have everlasting life.”

This is the One whom Jesus called his “Father,” referring to Him as “the only true God.” - John 17:1-3

What does “only” mean to you, Oeste? Apparently not just the Father, but two others.

Is that what Jesus said?

 

[Trailblazer]

Where in the bible does it say "Jesus is not God"?
(I am not referring to verses that you 'believe' mean that Jesus is not God.)

As a side note, I don't believe there is any burden of proof on me to show this at all. The burden of proof lies with the disbelievers, as the vast majority of Christian believers already know Jesus is God.

I do not have to prove that Jesus is not God since there is nothing in the Bible that says that Jesus is God.

Since you are claiming that Jesus is God it is your burden of proof.

The vast majority of Christian believers do not know that Jesus is God.
The vast majority of Christian believers believe that Jesus is God.
That is not proof that Jesus is God.

As far as Jesus saying "I am God" I think the necessity of such a statement has been debunked. So if you can show us where Jesus says "I'm not God" rather than some statement you think says that, I'll provide you with more statements.

Jesus does not have to say that he is not God. The Bible clearly demonstrates that Jesus is not God.

How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

The Trinity is talked about in detail in the Bible. God is described in the Bible as being in distinct persons. The Distinction Of The Holy Spirit From The Father And From His Son, Jesus Christ That is what you have interpreted the Bible to mean, but it is not the way I interpret the Bible.

www.religiousforums.com

You need to show us where Jesus says "I am God" rather than some statement you think means that.

 

[blü 2]

According to whom? Where’s the Scripture which assigns these requirements to the Messiah?

The only requirement closest to these, was the requirement to descend from king David.

And today, with the records destroyed in 70 ce, no one can verify such a distinction!

The minimum requirement is anointing by the Jewish priesthood, something that the NT never attributes to Jesus. "Anointed" is what "messiah" means, as does its Greek translation khristos, Latin Christus, English Christ.

Paul and the author of John each briefly assert that their Jesus is descended from David, but never explain how. The author of Matthew gives a "genealogy" showing descent from David, but it's for Joseph, who in that version is unambiguously NOT Jesus' father. The same is true of the author of Luke, except that his genealogy is irreconcilable with the Matthew one, and both are highly improbable anyway.

The Jesus of Mark ─ the biographical prototype ─ says you don't need to be descended from David at all (Mark 12:35-37). Though none of the others agrees with him, that certainly keeps things clean and simple. I infer that in the Markan view, God can adopt whomsoever [he] likes.

 

[JerryMyers]

Oeste wrote –

[“Then who do you say "God Almighty" is? You offer no support with for your argument and from your profile I cannot tell is you are Christian, skeptic, Bahai, atheist or other.”.]


God Almighty is the same God Almighty who told Moses, “... I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob…..” – Matthew 22:32, and if God Almighty has already created Jesus with His Command (the Word of God), and Jesus was already walking on earth in Moses’ time, God Almighty would probably have said “God of Jesus” too.


Who do you think God Almighty is??? Jesus??? Based on the words of other people ???

Let me say it again - YOU follow and believe the words of other people more than you believe the words of God Almighty and/or His prophet, Jesus.


Oeste wrote –
[“Let me show you a few verses from Hebrews 1:

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,...”
For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“5. For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son; today I have become your Father...”.
...8. But about the Son He says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy

These verses clearly tell us what many, like the Pharisees, did not want to hear.
1. Jesus is God (verse 8) because Jesus is fully God, and because he is only begotten Son of God. Someone begotten is ALWAYS the same as the begetter. Cows do not give birth to goats.
2. Jesus is Man, (verse 9) because Jesus is fully man as the Son of Man, being borne by Mary, and all men have a God.”]

Let me ask YOU a simple question – WHO wrote the books of Hebrews??

Need I say more??? YOU follow and believe the words of other people more than you believe the words of God Almighty and/or His prophet, Jesus.


Oeste wrote -
[“JerryMyers said:
- because Jesus himself NEVER says or implies he’s God!
Jesus told us only God is good, which shows Jesus is God. If you believe Jesus is no good or not good enough for some reason, please tell us why.”]


That saying of Jesus is NOT about who is more good, it’s about Jesus glorifying his God, which he always does while on earth. In other words, when a man told Jesus that he’s good, that man was glorifying Jesus, and Jesus told the man not to glorify him as only God Almighty is worthy of all glorifications.

You wrote -
[“JerryMyers said:

- because in your own Bible, Jesus denied he’s God!!
So, if Jesus already denied he’s God in your own Bible (don’t ignore that fact), do you think the likes of John 1:1 and John 1:18 are saying Jesus is God??! John 1:1 and John 1:18 are NOT even the words of Jesus!! Don’t be so gullible!! THINK!!
Well let's THINK about this then. We'll do a simple thought experiment. It will require a bit of thinking but only requires you to don the role of Christian if you are not one.
You announce, much like you did here that "JESUS NEVER SAID HE WAS GOD!" Trinitarians object, but you point out that Jesus never actually said "I am God" anywhere in scripture. Trinitarians raise other scriptures but the chant "Never said it!" fills the room and spreads like wildfire, causing Christians to "THINK" the world over. After great ponderance and thoughtful dwelling on this important revelation, an epiphany is reached:
"HEY, Wait a minute! @JerryMyers is absolutely correct! Jesus NEVER said "I am God", now that I've really thought about it."
Thanks to the revelation you provide, Trinitarianism vanishes, and no one thinks Jesus is God anymore. Why? Because Jesus never said it! Even the Bahai's thank you for ridding the world of this "unscriptural" doctrine.
You do the usual TV, Talk Show, and Guest Lecture interviews. As you're about to end your tour you wrap up by saying "Remember, Jesus Christ our Lord is NOT G..." when someone from the audience screams at you:
THINK!
A hushed silence comes over the room. You say "But we already have thought about it, and Jesus is not God..."
But by then, protestors are waving signs that looks something like this:
Trailblazer said:
Jesus is not the Lord and Jesus is not God.
Trailblazer said:
Only the Lord is God.
Trailblazer said:
1. Jesus is not the Lord.
You protest (unless you're an atheist, agnostic or Bahai) but the protestors insist. Why!? Because Jesus never said it!
You search the scriptures, ready to slay this heresy but the chant "Never said it!" fills the lecture hall and spreads like wildfire, causing Christians to "THINK" the world over. Once again, after great ponderance and thoughtful dwelling on this important spiritual issue, an epiphany is reached:
"HEY, Wait a minute!", they announce, "Those protestors are absolutely correct! Jesus NEVER said "I am Lord", now that I've really thought about it".
Thanks to this new revelation Christianity vanishes, and no one thinks Jesus is Lord anymore. Why!? Because Jesus never said it! Once again the Bahai's thank you for providing a forum to help rid the world of this "unscriptural" doctrine.
End of thought experiment
So is Jesus not God or Lord??!
Of course he is God just as he is Lord! Why?
Because the Father clearly states Jesus is God at Hebrews 1:8. We do not need to have Jesus say "I am only a Man", "I am God" or "I am Lord".
So is Jesus not a man?
Of course he is man!
Is Jesus not Lord?
Of course he is Lord!
Jesus is God: 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Jesus is Man: 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Jesus is Lord: 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Yet there is ONE Lord, and ONE God, not two or three.

We can plainly see why @Trailblazer, a non-Christian, would allege the apostle Paul is a false prophet, and why Jesus is not Lord. I see no need to join in on the chorus.

JerryMyers said:
Looks like Trinitarians like you believe the words of other people rather than the words of Jesus!!
No, it's just that we do not assume words Jesus did not say. If you have "...the words of Jesus" claiming something at odds with "the words of the Father" as stated at Hebrews 1:8-10, then please, let our readers know what these words are and where we can find them in scripture.”]

Very dramatic and lengthy (and boring) just to present your case!
OK, you said Trinitarians do not assume on words Jesus did not say, but I think Trinitarians like you assume a lot about what Jesus DID NOT say and depend a lot on what other people said about Jesus when you should focus on what God Almighty and His prophet Jesus, DID SAY about who he is in your Scripture.

So, since Jesus never says he’s God, and he never says he’s not God in the Scripture, and since you like to experiment, let’s put the Law of Possibilities to both claims that Jesus never says outright.

What are the possibilities of Jesus is God when in your Scripture -

1. God Almighty declares –

“I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides me there is no God” – Isaiah 45:5

“I, even I, am the LORD, and APART FROM ME there is NO SAVIOR.” - Isaiah 43:11​

​

“Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the Lord? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me”. – Isaiah 45:21​

“You shall have no other gods before me”. – Exodus 20:3

2. Jesus says –

“The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The Lord OUR God is the one and only Lord” – Mark 12:29

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent”. – John 17:3

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God, believe also in me”. – John 14:1


So, based on the words of Jesus himself and what God Almighty has declared of Himself in your Scripture (NOT based on the words of other people), I will say the possibility of Jesus as God is practically ZERO!

BTW, I agree with @Trailblazer, Paul is a false apostle.

In case, you have not yet realized, anything written in the scripture about Paul being an apostle or he met Jesus and was selected by Jesus himself (which never happens) is all written by Paul himself!

Heck, I will say if Trump or anyone with the 'gift of the gab' and a commanding character living in those early days, could write himself into the scripture too, appointed himself as an apostle, and many who believe the words of other people more than they believe the words of Jesus or the Words of God Almighty, will believe him too!

 

[Dimi95]

Ehrman?? The "agnostic/atheist" who says he's not a Christian?

Ehrman is about as far removed from a prophet as one can achieve. It's like a 1st Century Christian going to the temple and asking for guidance on The Way from a Pharisee.

Yes , that is because Ehrman does not study this as a Historian , he studies it in the way of Textual Criticism.
Historian does not mean only Textual Criticism , it is much more then that.
He does not understand that talking about the New Testament does not go by his own terms.

And it seems that his conclusions are wrong , because he works with Textual Criticism as his primary tool.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The minimum requirement is anointing by the Jewish priesthood

That’s what I asked… what Scripture says this?

Anointed by the Levite priesthood? Not even King David was… or any Israelite king.

So where do you get this at?

Something the Jews claim as a requirement?

Then they’ve just shot themselves in the foot, for the Messiah they’re expecting…. No Jews know if they’re descended from Aaron (whom the priesthood came through).

 

[blü 2]

So where do you get this at?

From the meaning of the word "Messiah".

As to whether Jesus was a descendant of David, claimed to be a requirement, (a) Paul (Romans 1.3) and the author of John (7:42) assert that this is the case but give no details, not even naming Jesus' parents (b) the author of Mark denies that such descent is a requirement (12:35-37) and (c) the authors of Matthew and of Luke give highly improbable and irreconcilable "genealogies" purporting to show descent from David, but they're for Joseph, and in these two cases Joseph is emphatically NOT Jesus' father. So the final vote is 2 in favor and 3 either against or not credible.

What do you say qualified Jesus to this title?

 

[Oeste]

I've already given you a sample, but here again are all five versions of Jesus denying that they're God ─

Sounds exciting! Let’s take a look.

Philippians 2:
8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.

Whoa!

This sounds like a pretty big event here. Who do you say, or who do you believe Christians should say Jesus was before "being found in human form”? It might help our readers if you could elaborate a bit more on the proper understanding of who Jesus was according to this particular verse.

9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name,

Above every name? Now that’s interesting!

Let readers know if you agree or disagree with this verse. Perhaps the speaker misspoke, forgot to make a few exceptions, or was over selling the name ?

10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Hmmmm…where have we heard this before? Oh yes! Here it is:

Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear. Isaiah 45:23

That looks like we will give the same worship to Jesus that we give God.

Colossians 1:
3 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 ... 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Come, let us bow down in worship,
let us kneel before the Lord our Maker; Psalm 95:6

I'm beginning to see some parallels here @blü 2. But wait...just who is this "Lord our Maker"?

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

"Before" means Jesus is eternal and not created. By him all things consist: He is our Maker.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

What "fulness?" you might ask. This would be the fullness of deity, just as scripture says:

“For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” Colossians 2:9

This tells us Christ has everything that God has, and that all of God's fullness resides in Christ's body. The "fullness" refers to God's complete nature, including his attributes, character, perfection, holiness, power, and love.

Mark 2:
10 But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins ...

This is important! Note Jesus specifically refers to himself as the Son of man here, and not Son of God. The Son of man is fully man and has to be given authority to forgive. After all, Jesus, as son of man, is only man, and man cannot forgive his own sins.

As the Son of God, he's always had that authority.

One more point: Jesus has full authority to forgive sins. It's not the Father forgiving sins "through" Jesus but Jesus forgiving those he wishes to forgive. There is no "In the name of the Lord" prefix that Jesus has to use here, but it all to the glory of the Father because it was the Father who sent him.

This is a great verse to point out the dual nature of Jesus.

Mark 9
36 And he took a child, and put him in the midst of them; and taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37 “Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.

Of course! When you see Jesus you have seen the Father. (See John 14:9)

Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the first of all?”
29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;

Again, is Jesus Lord, an is he the "one", or do we have two separate and distinct Lords?

I and the Father are one. (John 10:30) We have one God; one Lord and our Lord and God is one. Jesus, as Son of God, is no less spiritual Lord and God than the Father, however the Father is vastly superior to Jesus Son of Man.

30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [...]
32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God;

Now why would Jesus say that?

Because of the verse we just read!

30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [...]

Our Lord Jesus and the Lord our God are the same! This does NOT make Jesus the Father or the Father Jesus. It simply makes Jesus God just as the Father is God.

Also, this is a good time to point out that Jesus states he “…proceeded and came forth from God”, and not the heavens or Mary. He was certainly borne by Mary, making him man but he was also begotten by the Father, making him God.

Matthew 20:
23 He said to them, “You will drink my cup, but to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Jesus sits at the right hand of God as the Son of Man because he is fully man. I don’t see where this denies he’s fully God as the Son of God.

Matthew 24:
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

Again, Jesus is speaking as the Son of Man, not as the Son of God. If he wanted to know as the Son of God he was fully capable of doing so, just as the Spirit “searches the deep things of God”. Unfortunately, as soon as Jesus grasps for power the gig is up, so he can only do what the Father authorizes or tells him to do if he wishes to conduct his mission successfully.

Luke 18:
18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

Please elaborate and tell us why you believe Jesus is no good, and just where he admits to being no good in this verse. If your premise is correct, the verse should read “No one is good but the Father alone.”

This verse shows Jesus is God, not that Jesus is not God. Jesus can’t possibly be no good when he is “one” with the Father unless the Father is no good as well.

John 5:
19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

Remember when Moses wanted to see God?

“And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.” (Exodus 33:18)​

And how God replies?

And he said, “Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.” (Exodus 33:20)​

Now explain how Jesus, if he is just man, sees the Father and lives. If this is not clear, ask yourself when was the last time you, as man, peeked in on our spiritual Father to see what he was doing.

Either Jesus is contradicting well known and established scripture, or he is God as well as man.

John 5
30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

Adam did his own thing, Jesus does not. He only does what he sees (not imagines) the Father doing. The Father doesn’t sin, so Jesus doesn’t sin. That is how Jesus lived his life on earth and it’s what allows him to atone for our sins.

John 6
38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me ...

See my answer directly above.

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

Addressed previously with my quote on John 8:42.

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, “... 29 My Father ... is greater than all”.

This proves Jesus was fully man. Some folks have a twisted view of the Trinity. They believe the Trinity doctrine states that Jesus is God and only God. This is incorrect. Jesus was fully God and always remains fully God. It is only at the moment of his incarnation, that he became fully man. At no time did Jesus not stay fully God. It was the Son of Man who died on the cross for the sins of mankind.

John 14:6 “No one comes to the Father but by me.” (Incompatible with triune concept,)

Why is this incompatible when Jesus is God? He’s not the Father, but he is God.

You will need to elaborate.

John 14:9-16
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father’? ...

These verses clearly show Jesus to be God, yet some still say they can't see God when they see Jesus.