Jesus is not God

[Trailblazer]

which means they also go out of existence when one dies

No, no soul ever goes out of existence since ALL souls are immortal.
ALL bodies however do go out of existence when people die.

The following is from a Christian website, which is exactly what I believe as a Baha'i.

Soul Cannot Die

The Scripture says the spirit, or soul, cannot be annihilated. Though the body may die, the spirit will live on. Death, therefore is not the end of conscious life. It is the separation of the body and the spirit. The spirit, however, lives on in another realm. The body is only the temporary residence of humans.

Jesus said.
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).
Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate. The destruction of the soul means separation from the life of God. Though living, the soul of the unbeliever has no connection whatsoever to God.

Can the Spirit, or Soul, Be Destroyed?

The Bible teaches that humans are made up of both body and spirit. Life begins when the two are united, and life ends when the two are separated. Death Of The

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[walt]

These words in Revelation confirm Jesus identity and His Father's identity, that has not changed in Heaven. Jesus is still His Father's Son! And His Father is still His God! [ This is Proof that Jesus was telling the truth, saying: I am God's Son. ] Jn 10:36

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants what things it behooves to take place in quickness. And He signified it through having sent His angel to His servant, John, -Rev 1:1 Berean Literal Bible

and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen. -Rev 1:5-6 Berean Standard Bible

And I saw, and behold, a Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred forty-four thousand, having the Name of His Father written on their foreheads; -Rev 14:1 Literal Standard Version

To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne. -Rev 3:21 NIV

And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” -Rev 7:10 NIV


And every creature which is in Heaven and in Earth, under The Earth, in the Sea and all that is in them, I also heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and dominion to him sitting upon the throne and to the Lamb for the eternity of eternities.” -Rev 5:13 Aramaic Bible in Plain English

 

[cataway]

Jesus said.
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).
Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate. The destruction of the soul means separation from the life of God. Though living, the soul of the unbeliever has no connection whatsoever to God.

a man can kill and God has the power to put life back into the body that he live again .God can make someone so gone that even he could not bring them back. that's gone ,gone.

 

[blü 2]

Baha'is believe that the soul of Jesus pre-existed in heaven with God, and that God sent the soul of Jesus to earth, and Jesus was then born on earth in a physical body just like everyone else. The difference is that His soul was pre-existent and our souls are not. They come into existence at the time of conception.

As you know, that's not a view available to us igtheists, and I still think Mark's ordinary human adopted by God is the nearest thing to a credible model ─ but in the end, sure, why not?

 

[Trailblazer]

a man can kill and God has the power to put life back into the body that he live again .

This is not about what God has the power to do, it is about what God actually DOES.

If you are a Bible believer the only way you can know what God DOES is by reading the Bible.
God does not put life back into physical bodies. After we die our physical bodies are transformed into spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

God can make someone so gone that even he could not bring them back. that's gone ,gone.

No soul is ever gone. When our bodies die the souls who are close to God gain eternal life in heaven and those souls who were victims of self and passion will sink into the depths.... call it hell if you want to.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 158-163

 

[blü 2]

I am happy you are learning about the things that interest you, it sounds like you have a lot of knowledge about it.

I see your point, but I don't separate the books in the bible, to me all the books reveal some truth, that helps shape my beliefs. I read to look for agreement. but I am sure everyone finds different things interesting?
I use this scripture:

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. NIV

Also: John 17:17, Luke 8:21,

Much love and Respect

You might wish to consider that the 2 Timothy quote (a) makes no claim of infallibility, simply of utility, and (b) applies to the Tanakh but not the NT, which didn't exist when 2 Timothy was written.

Anyway, enjoy your journey!

 

[cataway]

This is not about what God has the power to do, it is about what God actually DOES.

If you are a Bible believer the only way you can know what God DOES is by reading the Bible.
God does not put life back into physical bodies. After we die our physical bodies are transformed into spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies. 41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever. 43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

No soul is ever gone. When our bodies die the souls who are close to God gain eternal life in heaven and those souls who were victims of self and passion will sink into the depths.... call it hell if you want to.

“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths...”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 158-163

you are really good at taking things out of context . not that its a good thing . you have supposed that every one go's off to heaven .
the apostles were invited to join Jesus in heaven , they will be part of the kingdom that rules over the earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

you are really good at taking things out of context . not that its a good thing . you have supposed that every one go's off to heaven .
the apostles were invited to join Jesus in heaven , they will be part of the kingdom that rules over the earth.

None of that is biblical. It is all from doctrines of the JW church.

Not everyone goes off to heaven. Only those who have eternal life, meaning they were close to God, go to heaven.

 

[cataway]

None of that is biblical. It is all from doctrines of the JW church.

Not everyone goes off to heaven. Only those who have eternal life, meaning they were close to God, go to heaven.

all very biblical and right not everyone goes to heaven . the vast majority remain alive living here on earth .
Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth."
were are the ones that are not mild-tempered, ? ? they no longer exists

 

[Trailblazer]

all very biblical and right not everyone goes to heaven . the vast majority remain alive living here on earth .
Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth."
were are the ones that are not mild-tempered, ? ? they no longer exists

Not everyone will go to heaven but nobody will live on earth after their allotted life span...
THAT is not biblical.

Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth."

That refers to people who are LIVING on earth and future generations of LIVING people who will inherit the New Earth after it is built.
It does not refer to anyone who has died before the inheriting occurs. The bodies of those people will remain dead in their graves.

 

[cataway]

Not everyone will go to heaven but nobody will live on earth after their allotted life span...
THAT is not biblical.

Matthew 5:5 “Happy are the mild-tempered, since they will inherit the earth."

That refers to people who are LIVING on earth and future generations of LIVING people who will inherit the New Earth after it is built.
It does not refer to anyone who has died before the inheriting occurs. The bodies of those people will remain dead in their graves.

yes it does refer to those living in the future

Acts 24:15​

''And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. ''
they will be living here on this earth

 

[Trailblazer]

yes it does refer to those living in the future

Acts 24:15​

''And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous. ''
they will be living here on this earth

Yes it does refer to those living in the future and there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, but that does not mean that dead bodies will rise from their graves and live again on earth.

In conclusion, Acts 24:15 from the King James Version encapsulates the Christian hope in the resurrection and the final judgment. The verse underscores the foundational beliefs of the Christian faith, emphasizing the promise of eternal life and the accountability of all individuals before God. It serves as a powerful reminder to believers of the hope and assurance they have in Christ, even in the midst of trials and persecution. The symbolism and themes found in this verse continue to inspire and encourage Christians to remain steadfast in their faith and to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ.

What does Acts 24:15 mean? | Bible Art

The Bible verse Acts 24:15 in the King James Version (KJV) states, "And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." This verse is a part of the book of Acts, which was written by Luke as a continuation of...

bible.art

 

[walt]

You might wish to consider that the 2 Timothy quote (a) makes no claim of infallibility, simply of utility, and (b) applies to the Tanakh but not the NT, which didn't exist when 2 Timothy was written.

Anyway, enjoy your journey!

Which books are considered to be canon in the Tanakh?

Will you please explain what you mean by infallibility? And utility? I don't use these words.

 

[cataway]

that is what a resurrection is . dead living again . we know Jesus can do it ,he did it several times . he even let is disciples do it .

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe I see your reason as well, however, we should not get the impression that Jesus is calling, equating, or making himself "a god". He's simply stating that the corrupt Judges of Israel were are called gods, do calling himself God is not a blasphemous crime.

After all, they are called "gods" and "sons of the most High", but never the begotten son of God.

That is why when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of God many Jews took offense because they knew that to be a "son of God" conveyed greatness on such a person.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, no soul ever goes out of existence since ALL souls are immortal.
ALL bodies however do go out of existence when people die.

The following is from a Christian website, which is exactly what I believe as a Baha'i.

Soul Cannot Die

The Scripture says the spirit, or soul, cannot be annihilated. Though the body may die, the spirit will live on. Death, therefore is not the end of conscious life. It isT the separation of the body and the spirit. The spirit, however, lives on in another realm. The body is only the temporary residence of humans.

Jesus said.
Do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Matthew 10:28).
Destroy has the idea of punish, not annihilate. The destruction of the soul means separation from the life of God. Though living, the soul of the unbeliever has no connection whatsoever to God.

Can the Spirit, or Soul, Be Destroyed?

The Bible teaches that humans are made up of both body and spirit. Life begins when the two are united, and life ends when the two are separated. Death Of The

www.blueletterbible.org

I realize you don't believe what the Bible says, but it certainly does not say all souls are immortal. It says quite the opposite. Just like Satan told Eve -- he LIED to her by telling her she wouldn't die...(but she died) Anyway, here is what the Bible (not the Bab) teaches -- Ezekiel 18:4 -
"Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die."
English Standard Version
See, God says that all the souls belong to Him. And that the soul that sins shall -- what? live forever? or does He say they shall DIE??

 

[Trailblazer]

I realize you don't believe what the Bible says, but it certainly does not say all souls are immortal. It says quite the opposite. Just like Satan told Eve -- he LIED to her by telling her she wouldn't die...(but she died) Anyway, here is what the Bible (not the Bab) teaches -- Ezekiel 18:4 -
"Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die."
English Standard Version
See, God says that all the souls belong to Him. And that the soul that sins shall -- what? live forever? or does He say they shall DIE??

The verse means that the soul who sins shall not gain eternal life... Eternal life is a state of the soul that is near to God.

No soul can ever die because the soul was created by God to be immortal.
The soul that sins will not gain eternal life because it will not be close to God, but it will continue to exist in a state that is far from God.

 

[cataway]

The verse means that the soul who sins shall not gain eternal life... Eternal life is a state of the soul that is near to God.

No soul can ever die because the soul was created by God to be immortal.
The soul that sins will not gain eternal life because it will not be close to God, but it will continue to exist in a state that is far from God.

your words tend to leave out procreation . granted life is something that was started by God.
Yet when that spark was snuffed out it does not come back , dead soul. Jesus using that same power put that spark of life back into many dead, they then again were living souls . he proved he could do it that it could be done. why you feal he cant doing again suggests you doute his abilities.

 

[blü 2]

The Tanakh is the "old testament" in Christian contexts. I understand the Jewish version has the books in somewhat different order, and maybe has some additional books (from the Apocrypha, perhaps?) but I haven't looked into it.

Infallibility is a quality some fundamentalist Christians attribute to the bible as a whole. It means 'incapable of error', thus entirely authoritative, as a result of the concomitant belief that the whole text of the bible is divinely inspired ─ a claim found nowhere in the bible, as I mentioned.

Utility? Practical usefulness,

 

[blü 2]

The Tanakh is the "old testament" in Christian contexts. I understand the Jewish version has the books in somewhat different order, and maybe has some additional books (from the Apocrypha, perhaps?) but I haven't looked into it.

Infallibility is a quality some fundamentalist Christians attribute to the bible as a whole. It means 'incapable of error', thus entirely authoritative, as a result of the concomitant belief that the whole text of the bible is divinely inspired ─ a claim found nowhere in the bible, as I mentioned.

Utility? Practical usefulness,