Jesus is not God

[jimb]

God did not put a soul in any body.

Then how did people acquire souls? God is the creator who made humans and humans have souls. Therefore, God put them there.

 

[YoursTrue]

Then how did people acquire souls? God is the creator who made humans and humans have souls. Therefore, God put them there.

Go ask your rabbi,maybe he can help you. No one acquired a soul. But do some study and research and maybe ask the mavens in your synagogue if you go to one and see what they say and let them show you the words and sentences, maybe you read and understand Hebrew also? If you don't understand the word 'maven,' substitute knowledgeable ones in your synagogue instead.

 

[jimb]

Go ask your rabbi,maybe he can help you. No one acquired a soul. But do some study and research and maybe ask the mavens in your synagogue if you go to one and see what they say and let them show you the words and sentences, maybe you read and understand Hebrew also? If you don't understand the word 'maven,' substitute knowledgeable ones in your synagogue instead.

Go ask your rabbi,maybe he can help you. No one acquired a soul. But do some study and research and maybe ask the mavens in your synagogue if you go to one and see what they say and let them show you the words and sentences, maybe you read and understand Hebrew also? If you don't understand the word 'maven,' substitute knowledgeable ones in your synagogue instead.

I don't have a rabbi. I don't go to synagogue. My "maven" is Yeshua Hamashiach.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't have a rabbi. I don't go to synagogue. My "maven" is Yeshua Hamashiach.

Oh. OK, thanks for advising. So you don't get together with people of like belief? OK, I'll try to settle down and go over some information about souls. But first let's go over a few things about Adam's creation. Genesis 2:7 speaks of Adam's creation. How does your Bible read at that verse?

 

[Lisa Sims]

Those stories in the Bible are just stories. Nobody knows if Jesus brought people back to life in a physical body, but even if He did, the physical body is mortal so it would have died eventually. Why bring someone back if they are going to die again?

Greetings!

Most of the miracles attributed to Jesus in the Bible are later insertions based on previous stories from the Old Testament and pagan sources.

He asserts that he cast out evil spirits (but did not send them into swine) and healed the very seriously sick and diseased, even those who were apparently dead, or in a coma, "the sleep of death," but whose spirit bodies were still attached by the "silver cord."

The Miracle at Naym
"...Of course, you understand that the young man was not dead. He lay prostrate in a deep coma, a case very similar to that of Lazarus or of Tabitha. You remember that once you saw on television, how more than one century ago they installed in the central cemetery of Vienna, an ingenious system, so that those buried ones could get the attention of the cemetery guards. Everybody was afraid at that time of being buried alive. That happened relatively frequently.

And Jesus saw that the young man was not dead, and he healed him. There is no doubt about it, his healing powers were enormous — and they still are, in fact even greater now..." Judas, 3/4/2002

From Jesus' Second Coming Message Series From Spirit, 1914 to Present. soultruth.ca, new-birth.net

John 16:25 "...Thus far I have spoken to you only in parables...but a time is coming when I will tell you plainly about the Father..."

"God is Love, and His Love is something we can pray for every day and it will flow into us and transform us and make us One with Him"

"God is Love, and Love is something we can pray for"

"God is Love..."

Tell everyone for as Ezekiel says, "...The time is short and the work is great..." 4/21/2024

 

[jimb]

Oh. OK, thanks for advising. So you don't get together with people of like belief? OK, I'll try to settle down and go over some information about souls. But first let's go over a few things about Adam's creation. Genesis 2:7 speaks of Adam's creation. How does your Bible read at that verse?

Since I am 81 I don't go to church (or synagogue) and longer.

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My preferred translation (NET) reads Genesis 2:7 like this...

The Lord God formed[u] the man from the soil of the ground[v] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,[w] and the man became a living being.[x]

Footnote u: Or “fashioned.” The prefixed verb form with vav (ו) consecutive initiates narrative sequence. The Hebrew word יָצַר (yatsar) means “to form” or “to fashion,” usually by plan or design (see the related noun יֵצֶר [yetser] in Gen 6:5). It is the term for an artist’s work (the Hebrew term יוֹצֵר [yotser] refers to a potter; see Jer 18:2-4.)sn Various traditions in the ancient Near East reflect this idea of creation. Egyptian drawings show a deity turning little people off of the potter’s wheel with another deity giving them life. In the Bible humans are related to the soil and return to it (see 3:19; see also Job 4:19, 20:9; and Isa 29:16).

Footnote v: The line literally reads “And Yahweh God formed the man, soil, from the ground.” “Soil” is an adverbial accusative, identifying the material from which the man was made.

Footnote w: tn The phrase נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים (nishmat khayyim, “breath of life”) appears for certain only here. In Gen 6:17; 7:15 the phrase is רוּחַ חַיִּים (ruakh khayyim, “breath/spirit of life”), where רוּחַ can mean “breath, wind, spirit.” And in Gen 7:22 the phrase is נִשְׁמַת רוּחַ חַיִּים (nishmat ruakh khayyim, “breath of the breath/spirit of life”). T. C. Mitchell (“The Old Testament Usage of Neshama,” VT 11 [1961]: 177-87) suggests the possibility that נְשָׁמָה (neshamah, “breath”) may not be used for animals but only God and man. BDB 675 s.v. נְשָׁמָה 4 states that the word refers to the human “spirit” in Prov 20:27. Many versions, including the NET, take it that way at Job 26:4 (KJV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV). Job 32:8 asserts that God’s “breath” gives people understanding. If so, this may be part of indicating that God made humans differently than other breathing living organisms (נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה, nefesh khayyah). However Gen 7:22 and Job 34:14-15 may use the term נְשָׁמָה of animals.sn Human life is described here as consisting of a body (made from soil from the ground) and breath (given by God). Both animals and humans are called “a living being” (נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה) but humankind became that in a different and more significant way.

Footnote x: tn The Hebrew term נֶפֶשׁ (nefesh, “being”) is often translated “soul,” but the word usually refers to the whole person. The phrase נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה (nefesh khayyah, “living being”) is used of both animals and human beings (see 1:20, 24, 30; 2:19).

 

[YoursTrue]

Since I am 81 I don't go to church (or synagogue) and longer.

Thank you for explaining. I understand. Getting old-er is not always easy, is it? You made me think of a scripture that is so helpful, kind, and loving. Hope you enjoy it, jimb.

(Isaiah 65:17-)
"For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

18But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
for I will create Jerusalem to be a joy and its people to be a delight.

19I will rejoice in Jerusalem and take delight in My people.
The sounds of weeping and crying will no longer be heard in her.

20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days,
or an old man fail to live out his years.
For the youth will die at a hundred years,
and he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

21They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

22No longer will they build houses for others to inhabit,
nor plant for others to eat.
For as is the lifetime of a tree,
so will be the days of My people,
and My chosen ones will fully enjoy
the work of their hands.

23They will not labor in vain
or bear children doomed to disaster;
for they will be a people blessed by the LORD—
they and their descendants with them.

24Even before they call, I will answer,
and while they are still speaking, I will hear.

25The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
but the food of the serpent will be dust.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all My holy mountain,”

I hope you enjoy those scriptures, jimb. Later for the rest of your post. I'll get back to you. Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

Since I am 81 I don't go to church (or synagogue) and longer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My preferred translation (NET) reads Genesis 2:7 like this...

The Lord God formed[u] the man from the soil of the ground[v] and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life,[w] and the man became a living being.[x]

Footnote u: Or “fashioned.” The prefixed verb form with vav (ו) consecutive initiates narrative sequence. The Hebrew word יָצַר (yatsar) means “to form” or “to fashion,” usually by plan or design (see the related noun יֵצֶר [yetser] in Gen 6:5). It is the term for an artist’s work (the Hebrew term יוֹצֵר [yotser] refers to a potter; see Jer 18:2-4.)sn Various traditions in the ancient Near East reflect this idea of creation. Egyptian drawings show a deity turning little people off of the potter’s wheel with another deity giving them life. In the Bible humans are related to the soil and return to it (see 3:19; see also Job 4:19, 20:9; and Isa 29:16).

Footnote v: The line literally reads “And Yahweh God formed the man, soil, from the ground.” “Soil” is an adverbial accusative, identifying the material from which the man was made.

Footnote w: tn The phrase נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים (nishmat khayyim, “breath of life”) appears for certain only here. In Gen 6:17; 7:15 the phrase is רוּחַ חַיִּים (ruakh khayyim, “breath/spirit of life”), where רוּחַ can mean “breath, wind, spirit.” And in Gen 7:22 the phrase is נִשְׁמַת רוּחַ חַיִּים (nishmat ruakh khayyim, “breath of the breath/spirit of life”). T. C. Mitchell (“The Old Testament Usage of Neshama,” VT 11 [1961]: 177-87) suggests the possibility that נְשָׁמָה (neshamah, “breath”) may not be used for animals but only God and man. BDB 675 s.v. נְשָׁמָה 4 states that the word refers to the human “spirit” in Prov 20:27. Many versions, including the NET, take it that way at Job 26:4 (KJV, NASB, NIV, NKJV, NLT, NRSV). Job 32:8 asserts that God’s “breath” gives people understanding. If so, this may be part of indicating that God made humans differently than other breathing living organisms (נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה, nefesh khayyah). However Gen 7:22 and Job 34:14-15 may use the term נְשָׁמָה of animals.sn Human life is described here as consisting of a body (made from soil from the ground) and breath (given by God). Both animals and humans are called “a living being” (נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה) but humankind became that in a different and more significant way.

Footnote x: tn The Hebrew term נֶפֶשׁ (nefesh, “being”) is often translated “soul,” but the word usually refers to the whole person. The phrase נֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה (nefesh khayyah, “living being”) is used of both animals and human beings (see 1:20, 24, 30; 2:19).

So now (and thank you for presenting that information) which maybe we can go over with a "fine-toothed comb" later -- after perusing that info above about Genesis 2:7 -- I see it says that first God formed the man from the soil and then He breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and then what does it say the man became?

 

[jimb]

Thank you for explaining. I understand. Getting old-er is not always easy, is it? You made me think of a scripture that is so helpful, kind, and loving. Hope you enjoy it, jimb.

(Isaiah 65:17-)
"For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

18But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
for I will create Jerusalem to be a joy and its people to be a delight.

19I will rejoice in Jerusalem and take delight in My people.
The sounds of weeping and crying will no longer be heard in her.

20No longer will a nursing infant live but a few days,
or an old man fail to live out his years.
For the youth will die at a hundred years,
and he who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

21They will build houses and dwell in them;
they will plant vineyards and eat their fruit.

22No longer will they build houses for others to inhabit,
nor plant for others to eat.
For as is the lifetime of a tree,
so will be the days of My people,
and My chosen ones will fully enjoy
the work of their hands.

23They will not labor in vain
or bear children doomed to disaster;
for they will be a people blessed by the LORD—
they and their descendants with them.

24Even before they call, I will answer,
and while they are still speaking, I will hear.

25The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
but the food of the serpent will be dust.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all My holy mountain,”

I hope you enjoy those scriptures, jimb. Later for the rest of your post. I'll get back to you. Thanks.

I do enjoy these wonderful verses. Isaiah is one amazing "book"! BTW, which translation did you use?

 

[Trailblazer]

Most of the miracles attributed to Jesus in the Bible are later insertions based on previous stories from the Old Testament and pagan sources.

I can certainly believe that!

 

[YoursTrue]

I do enjoy these wonderful verses. Isaiah is one amazing "book"! BTW, which translation did you use?

I agree these are very uplifting words -- I generally use the New World Translation but do refer to other translations upon occasion.

 

[Lisa Sims]

When I read the Bible I did not even hear or think Jesus was ever God.

Jesus himself says that he is not God.

Worship of Jesus as part of the Godhead is wrong and sinful - how much Jesus deplores this erroneous belief of mankind
"...Today has been one when mortals - and I mean those who profess to be followers of me - have offered their worship and songs of praise to me and to God, but I am sorry to say, that He has been worshiped in a secondary sense, and I brought into prominence as the Saviour of mankind, and as the important one of the three that constitutes the Godhead. How wrong and sinful this all is; and how I deplore these erroneous beliefs and understandings of men. If they would only know that I am not God, and no part of the Godhead, but only a son and spirit filled with His Divine Love, and one having knowledge of Him, and His plans for the salvation of mankind, they would get nearer to God in their worship, and receive more of His Divine Love in their souls and partake more of His Divine Nature..." Jesus, 4/23/1916

2 Peter 1:3-4 “...Accordingly, His DIVINE POWER has given us all things toward LIFE and GODLINESS, through the KNOWLEDGE of the One having called us by his own GLORY and excellence, through whom He has given to us the precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you might become PARTAKERS of His DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires..."

Luke: The mystery of the Godhead, three in one is a myth. There is no mystery that men should not know.
“...Nowhere, not even in the bible, is there any saying of Jesus to the effect that God is tripartite, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost…never did Jesus…teach any such doctrine, but only this: that the Father is God, and the only God, and that…Jesus is His son (the firstborn of many brethren) and…that the Holy Ghost is God’s messenger (attribute) for conveying the Divine Love…” Luke, 11/5/1916

Romans 5:5 “...And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His LOVE into our HEARTS (SOULS) through His Holy Spirit, which He has given to us..."

From: Jesus' Second Coming Message Series From Spirit, 1914 to Present. soultruth.ca, new-birth.net

John 16:25 "...Thus far I have spoken to you only in parables...but a time is coming when I will tell you plainly about the Father..."

"God is Love, and His Love is something we can pray for every day and it will flow into us and transform us and make us One with Him”

"God is Love, and Love is something we can pray for”

"God is Love..."

Tell everyone for as Ezekiel says, "...The time is short and the work is great..." 4/21/2024

John 3:9 “...Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God..."

 

[jimb]

Jesus himself says that he is not God.

Worship of Jesus as part of the Godhead is wrong and sinful - how much Jesus deplores this erroneous belief of mankind
"...Today has been one when mortals - and I mean those who profess to be followers of me - have offered their worship and songs of praise to me and to God, but I am sorry to say, that He has been worshiped in a secondary sense, and I brought into prominence as the Saviour of mankind, and as the important one of the three that constitutes the Godhead. How wrong and sinful this all is; and how I deplore these erroneous beliefs and understandings of men. If they would only know that I am not God, and no part of the Godhead, but only a son and spirit filled with His Divine Love, and one having knowledge of Him, and His plans for the salvation of mankind, they would get nearer to God in their worship, and receive more of His Divine Love in their souls and partake more of His Divine Nature..." Jesus, 4/23/1916

2 Peter 1:3-4 “...Accordingly, His DIVINE POWER has given us all things toward LIFE and GODLINESS, through the KNOWLEDGE of the One having called us by his own GLORY and excellence, through whom He has given to us the precious and magnificent promises, so that through them you might become PARTAKERS of His DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires..."

Luke: The mystery of the Godhead, three in one is a myth. There is no mystery that men should not know.
“...Nowhere, not even in the bible, is there any saying of Jesus to the effect that God is tripartite, consisting of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost…never did Jesus…teach any such doctrine, but only this: that the Father is God, and the only God, and that…Jesus is His son (the firstborn of many brethren) and…that the Holy Ghost is God’s messenger (attribute) for conveying the Divine Love…” Luke, 11/5/1916

Romans 5:5 “...And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His LOVE into our HEARTS (SOULS) through His Holy Spirit, which He has given to us..."

From: Jesus' Second Coming Message Series From Spirit, 1914 to Present. soultruth.ca, new-birth.net
the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
John 16:25 "...Thus far I have spoken to you only in parables...but a time is coming when I will tell you plainly about the Father..."

"God is Love, and His Love is something we can pray for every day and it will flow into us and transform us and make us One with Him”

"God is Love, and Love is something we can pray for”

"God is Love..."

Tell everyone for as Ezekiel says, "...The time is short and the work is great..." 4/21/2024

John 3:9 “...Anyone having been born of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to continue sinning, because he has been born of God..."

Matthew 28:16-20, "Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. When they saw him, they worshiped him, but they doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

I believe what Jesus Christ says about the Trinity, not what misguided people say. The Trinity exists and has always existed.

John 10:30, "The Father and I are one". Jesus and God are one and both parts of the trinity God.

 

[Oeste]

Worship of Jesus as part of the Godhead is wrong and sinful - how much Jesus deplores this erroneous belief of mankind

Agreed @Lisa Sims!

Of course, Trinitarians believe in one triune God, not in a God with "parts".

Luke: The mystery of the Godhead, three in one is a myth.

Can you elaborate ore on your reference to Luke?

There is no mystery that men should not know.

If you're a researcher, this is a good motto to have. However, as Christians, we know we see through a glass darkly.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (1 Cor 13:12)​

“...Nowhere, not even in the bible, is there any saying of Jesus to the effect that God is tripartite, ...

The Anomoeans and Nestorians were considered trithiestic in their beliefs, believing God to be tripartite, existing in 3 parts and/or forms. It was denounced by the orthodox church as a heresy and I'm not aware of any major Christian group holding to those beliefs now. Instead, these heresies are wrongly presented as "Trinitarian" by many non-Trinitarian religious groups.

 

[Oeste]

Matthew 28:16-20, "Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. When they saw him, they worshiped him, but they doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Hi @jimb,

God does not share His praise or glory with another (Isiah 42:8), and yet we see Him doing exactly that here, at Mat 28: 16-20). In fact, we're told to “obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thess. 2:14). It only gets weirder when our Arian friends tell us this verse actually means to baptize in the name of the Father, "a god" and/or an "active force".

From my perspective, if Jesus is "a god" then, by definition, he's also the son of "a god", because that's the only thing that could beget him. But if he's the Son of God, then he is God, because there is only one God, and while God adopted many sons, he only begot one.

 

[cataway]

Hi @jimb,

God does not share His praise or glory with another (Isiah 42:8), and yet we see Him doing exactly that here, at Mat 28: 16-20). In fact, we're told to “obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thess. 2:14). It only gets weirder when our Arian friends tell us this verse actually means to baptize in the name of the Father, "a god" and/or an "active force".

From my perspective, if Jesus is "a god" then, by definition, he's also the son of "a god", because that's the only thing that could beget him. But if he's the Son of God, then he is God, because there is only one God, and while God adopted many sons, he only begot one.

actually he is the son of THE God

 

[Michael Junior]

Exactly my point is the deity of jesus, Jesus is not God. I was a non-believer and had a mind of show me when I first read the Bible. At no time when I read the Bible thought that Jesus was ever God from reading the scriptures. It was when I atteneded main stream Church I was introduced to the Trinity and the idea Jesus was God. The Bible does not teach Jesus is God but man doctrine. Hope this helps in your questions to my thread.

Hello Andy,

what is your proof that jesus is not god. my proof is that bible says that jesus is god.

 

[Trailblazer]

what is your proof that jesus is not god. my proof is that bible says that jesus is god.

What is your proof that Jesus is God. My proof is that Bible says that Jesus not is God.
#374

 

[walt]

John 10:30, "The Father and I are one". Jesus and God are one and both parts of the trinity God.

I had an idea, you find your best 20 scriptures that explains Jesus and His Father's identity and I will find my best 20.

And then You and I will try to include all 40 scriptures to form our beliefs based on the information from each and every scripture - all 40 ?

Don't you agree that only half the scriptures is only half [ 1/2 ] of the understanding that is available actually in the Bible? Would you like to give it a try?

 

[Michael Junior]

I'll wait and see what Andy wants before putting it on this thread, but if he doesn't want debate on that issue, I'll post a thread on the issue or the like, explaining where I see that in Scripture. Tis forthcoming now .

sure read revelation 1:7-9, revelation 21:7 and john 10:30. Jesus said he is God.