Hi Walt!,
I respect your comments as well
@walt. I like that you used the word
"consistently" here which is why I bolded it. I think this is an important element to look for in any bible teaching.
Jesus is God in the flesh. We can see flesh. Our ability to see God in the flesh makes God more approachable and less distant.
Jesus clearly saw God's face and lived, so by your logic, Jesus cannot be human, and since we need a human redeemer to mediate our dispute with God caused by sin, then Jesus cannot be our redeemer.
Do you see how quickly your assertion falls apart? Mankind needs a kinsman redeemer. He can't be half human or half God, nor a god or a demiurge. He must be human to mediate our part in our dispute with God. But mankind is not the only party to our dispute. There is also God. Since Jesus is God and man he is the perfect person to resolve our dispute. If he is not both God and man, then he's totally unqualified and incapable of resolving our dispute.
So far, you appear to disagree with the words of Jesus when he says he can see the Father.
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (John 5:19).
How can Jesus see what his Father is doing when no man has seen God and lived?
Why do you tell us no man has seen the Father, when scripture tells us Jesus is the only one who has?
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
Do you not believe Jesus was sent from God?
"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth". (2 Timothy 2:15)
If you're telling your flock "No man has seen God one moment," and your flock reads that Jesus is a man that sees God the next, then yes, it does matter how you "slice" the word. Your flock will think the bible contradictory, or that their minister is speaking from both sides of his mouth.
As far as particular doctrines, like the Trinity, I don't believe the issue is salvational. In other words, there won't be a quiz on Judgement Day asking which church doctrines or religions are "true". I'll save that for the "true religion" religionists on this forum, of which their are aplenty.
However, if one is to understand the bible, and is seeking to harmonize bible verses, then I see no other way to do this except through the Trinity.
Otherwise, you simply proof-text yourself into countless contradictions.
Absolutely, but I won't here. That looks like waaaayyy too much homework!
If you are interested in my beliefs, I am Protestant and Trinitarian and extend my love and kindness to you and your family as well.
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. (Romans 12:2)
No, I respect my "Red letter only" friends in Christ, but I think it tough to explain the Exodus by simply using the words of Jesus.
The bible is a thick book of no few words, and if we are to grow and mature we are encouraged to diligently study and be prepared for every good work:
But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim 3)
Nice chat, and as always a pleasure to talk with you
@walt.
