Jesus is not God

[Coder]

He said ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’ (John 20:17).

Hi, I suggest look up the meaning of the name of Jupiter (the main idol of the Romans).

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course he's the only way to God, because he IS God.

Jesus is our creator, and he can say he is the truth, the way and the life because only God is the truth, the way and the life, and Jesus is God. That's all he's saying here.

If Jesus was God, He would not be a Way to God.

Jesus did not create anything. God created everything.

Jesus is not the truth, the way and the life for all of time. Jesus was only the truth, the way and the life during the Christian Dispensation.
The Christian Dispensation ended when Baha'u'llah came and ushered in a new age, the Age of Fulfillment, named as such since He fulfilled all the Bible prophecies for the return of Christ and the end times Messiah. Baha'is believe we are now living in the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah.

Dispensation

• the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
• an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
• a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

 

[Trailblazer]

Moses lived for a certain number of years, and never claimed to be God.

Jesus lived for a certain number of years, and never claimed to be God.

 

[jimb]

Hi, I suggest look up the meaning of the name of Jupiter (the main idol of the Romans).

"Jupiter" means "supreme god". So what? People have always worshipped other gods other than the one true God.

 

[cataway]

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Proverbs 8 : 22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,The earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times* I was installed,From the start, from times earlier than the earth.s24 When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth,When there were no springs overflowing with water.25 Before the mountains were set in place,Before the hills, I was brought forth,26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields Or the first clods of earth’s soil.27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there;When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters,v28 When he established the clouds above,When he founded the fountains of the deep,29 When he set a decree for the sea That its waters should not pass beyond his order, When he established the foundations of the earth,30 Then I was beside him as a master worker . I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things,and by means of him all other things were made to exist,

yes Jesus had a part in his Gods creative works

 

[jimb]

Genesis 1:26​

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.​

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Proverbs 8 : 22 Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,The earliest of his achievements of long ago. From ancient times* I was installed,From the start, from times earlier than the earth.s24 When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth,When there were no springs overflowing with water.25 Before the mountains were set in place,Before the hills, I was brought forth,26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields Or the first clods of earth’s soil.27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there;When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters,v28 When he established the clouds above,When he founded the fountains of the deep,29 When he set a decree for the sea That its waters should not pass beyond his order, When he established the foundations of the earth,30 Then I was beside him as a master worker . I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things,and by means of him all other things were made to exist,

yes Jesus had a part in his Gods creative works

Regarding Jesus, the apostle John wrote, "All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. John 1:3

That is more than having a part!

 

[Trailblazer]

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things,and by means of him all other things were made to exist,

yes Jesus had a part in his Gods creative works

Colossians 1

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

*** I agree with all of the above verses but I think that Paul should have stopped at verse 15.

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

*** Verses 16 and 17 apply to God. Jesus did not create anything. Show me any verses where Jesus said He created anything.
This glorification of Jesus by Paul did not come from Jesus. It was only Paul's personal opinion about Jesus.
The Church took off and ran with that and it changed Christianity into the religion of Paul, rather than the religion of Jesus.
This is a sorry state, a sorry state indeed, and I find it very sad that Christians believe in Paul rather than Jesus.

 

[cataway]

Regarding Jesus, the apostle John wrote, "All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. John 1:3

That is more than having a part!

he did what was told to do

 

[Trailblazer]

Regarding Jesus, the apostle John wrote, "All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created. John 1:3

That is more than having a part!

NOTHING was created by Jesus. ALL things were created by God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus was the Word.
The Word was God because Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
The Word was with God because Jesus was with God in the spiritual world before He was born in this world.

The following two verses are about God. All things were created by God.

John 1
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

him in verse 3 refers to God, not to Jesus.

 

[Trailblazer]

he did what was told to do

Jesus had a part in God's works.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

John 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

But Jesus did not have a part in God's creative works.
God created the heaven and the earth as it says in Genesis.

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Christians cannot change what the Bible says to suit their fancies, adding Jesus as a creator.

 

[jimb]

he did what was told to do

That doesn't mean that Jesus is not the creator!

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:3, regarding Jesus: All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created."

Clearly, the Bible says that JESUS is the creator.

 

[cataway]

That doesn't mean that Jesus is not the creator!

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:3, regarding Jesus: All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created."

Clearly, the Bible says that JESUS is the creator.

he did what was told to do

 

[Trailblazer]

That doesn't mean that Jesus is not the creator!

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:3, regarding Jesus: All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created."

Clearly, the Bible says that JESUS is the creator.

I know that you are Ignoring me, but that won't get rid of me, because this is a public forum.

The Bible does not say that Jesus is the creator.
NOTHING was created by Jesus. ALL things were created by God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jesus was the Word.

The Word was God because Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
The Word was with God because Jesus was with God in the spiritual world before He was born in this world.

The following two verses go together and they are about God. All things were created by God.

John 1
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

him in verse 3 refers to God, not to Jesus.

 

[walt]

Why does the Bible have these words? Are they in the Bible to guide us?

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. -John 17:3 KJV

Jesus says to her, "Do not touch Me, for not yet have I ascended to the Father. Now go to My brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'" -John 20:17 Berean literal Bible

But there is one thing I want you to know: The head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. -1 Cor 11:3 NLT

I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. -Eph 1:17 NIV

We give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, -Col 1:3 NKJV

For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, -1 Tim 2:5 Berean Standard Bible

one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. -Eph 4:5-6 New American Standard Bible

yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him. -1 Cor 8:6 English Revised Version

“Don’t let your heart be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. -John 14:1 Christian Standard Bible

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants what things it behooves to take place in quickness. And He signified it through having sent His angel to His servant, John, -Rev 1:1 Berean Literal Bible

 

[walt]

That doesn't mean that Jesus is not the creator!

Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
John 1:3, regarding Jesus: All things were created by him, and apart from him not one thing was created that has been created."

Clearly, the Bible says that JESUS is the creator.

Please Jimb I understand it this way..

Jesus says these things..

You, the only true God -John 17:3
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. -John 7:16
“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work -John 4:34
All power is given unto me -Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. -John 5:19
For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. -John 12:49

I highly value Jesus words to help me understand other scriptures..

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
New King James Bible John 1:3

My Conclusion:
In scripture Jesus tells us the Father is the only true God, the Son can do nothing of himself, I do My Father's will and finish his work. The Father sends his Son and gives him all the power and authority.

Do you agree, do you have something to add?

 

[Coder]

"Jupiter" means "supreme god".

"Jupiter" means "father in heavens/sky".

Jupiter (god) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[YoursTrue]

Please Jimb I understand it this way..

Jesus says these things..

You, the only true God -John 17:3
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. -John 7:16
“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work -John 4:34
All power is given unto me -Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. -John 5:19
For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. -John 12:49

I highly value Jesus words to help me understand other scriptures..

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
New King James Bible John 1:3

My Conclusion:
In scripture Jesus tells us the Father is the only true God, the Son can do nothing of himself, I do My Father's will and finish his work. The Father sends his Son and gives him all the power and authority.

Do you agree, do you have something to add?

A little off the topic perhaps, but nevertheless I feel impelled to add something to your comments there, Walt. Jesus was so concerned as he preached and spoke to people -- and the Our Father prayer makes so much sense, given the context. No wonder he taught his disciples to pray for God's kingdom to come and that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

 

[jimb]

Please Jimb I understand it this way..

Jesus says these things..

You, the only true God -John 17:3
Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. -John 7:16
“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work -John 4:34
All power is given unto me -Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. -John 5:19
For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. -John 12:49

I highly value Jesus words to help me understand other scriptures..

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
New King James Bible John 1:3

My Conclusion:
In scripture Jesus tells us the Father is the only true God, the Son can do nothing of himself, I do My Father's will and finish his work. The Father sends his Son and gives him all the power and authority.

Do you agree, do you have something to add?

The concept of the Trinity is not easy to understand, but that does not make it invalid.

Jesus is God's son -- but He is also God (as is the Holy Spirit). John 10:30, "The Father and I are one."

Jesus was also, temporarily, fully human. He came to earth to establish God's kingdom, then gave His life in sacrifice to pay the required penalty for sin. Then He returned to heaven and regained His divinity.

BTW, you quote John 1:3 -- All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made -- but apparently forget Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (New King James Bible). So if God created the heavens and the earth (everything) and John wrote that "all things were made through Him [Jesus] and without Him nothing was made that was made", then clearly Jesus is God.

A poor analogy of Jesus' status as a human: the Secretary of State has the full power and authority of the United States. S/he may not be President, but still represents the United States in dealing with other nations.

 

[Trailblazer]

BTW, you quote John 1:3 -- All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made -- but apparently forget Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (New King James Bible). So if God created the heavens and the earth (everything) and John wrote that "all things were made through Him [Jesus] and without Him nothing was made that was made", then clearly Jesus is God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If Jesus was the Word, and the Word was with God, was God with Himself? That makes no sense.
God was with someone else and that person was Jesus.

Jesus was the Word.
The Word was God because Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
The Word was with God because Jesus was with God in the spiritual world before He was born in this world.
The following two verses are about God, not about Jesus. All things were created by God.

John 1
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 

[YoursTrue]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

If Jesus was the Word, and the Word was with God, was God with Himself? That makes no sense.
God was with someone else and that person was Jesus.

Jesus was the Word.
The Word was God because Jesus was God manifested in the flesh.
The Word was with God because Jesus was with God in the spiritual world before He was born in this world.
The following two verses are about God, not about Jesus. All things were created by God.

John 1
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

did Bahaulluh say something like what you're saying above?