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Jesus is not God

YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
jimb said:
The concept of the Trinity is not easy to understand, but that does not make it invalid.

Jesus is God's son -- but He is also God (as is the Holy Spirit). John 10:30, "The Father and I are one."

Jesus was also, temporarily, fully human. He came to earth to establish God's kingdom, then gave His life in sacrifice to pay the required penalty for sin. Then He returned to heaven and regained His divinity.

BTW, you quote John 1:3 -- All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made -- but apparently forget Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (New King James Bible). So if God created the heavens and the earth (everything) and John wrote that "all things were made through Him [Jesus] and without Him nothing was made that was made", then clearly Jesus is God.

A poor analogy of Jesus' status as a human: the Secretary of State has the full power and authority of the United States. S/he may not be President, but still represents the United States in dealing with other nations.
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Lots of people believe that God is three persons in one. But then lots of people believe Mohammed and Bahaulluh and Hindu gods are the real things also.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
Lots of people believe that God is three persons in one. But then lots of people believe Mohammed and Bahaulluh and Hindu gods are the real things also.
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Lots of people believe that Jesus is the Only Way to God. So what?

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy,

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

The Narrow Way
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Trailblazer said:
I did not ask what it means since I know what it means to Christians...
I asked So What?
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however you interpret it -- anything can go -- with some people -- :) Some say Jesus is not the Messiah, others say he is, some say God is a Trinity, others say he is not, and on and on...etc.
 
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walt

walt

Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
jimb said:
The concept of the Trinity is not easy to understand, but that does not make it invalid.

Jesus is God's son -- but He is also God (as is the Holy Spirit). John 10:30, "The Father and I are one."

Jesus was also, temporarily, fully human. He came to earth to establish God's kingdom, then gave His life in sacrifice to pay the required penalty for sin. Then He returned to heaven and regained His divinity.

BTW, you quote John 1:3 -- All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made -- but apparently forget Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (New King James Bible). So if God created the heavens and the earth (everything) and John wrote that "all things were made through Him [Jesus] and without Him nothing was made that was made", then clearly Jesus is God.

A poor analogy of Jesus' status as a human: the Secretary of State has the full power and authority of the United States. S/he may not be President, but still represents the United States in dealing with other nations.
Click to expand...
Why do you put faith in a word that is not found in the Bible, "Trinity"? Why are you defending a word that is not in the Bible?
Is it explained by Jesus 3 are one one God? No! Jesus says God is one. -Mark 12:29
Does Jesus ever say he is equal to his Father? No! Jesus says differently. -John 5:19, 30, 8:28, 14:28

Jesus is called God's Son over 50 times in the Bible.
Jesus is called God's one and only son at John 3:16
Jesus is called God's only begotten son at John 1:14
After Jesus is raised from the dead, God is still his Father. John 20:17
In heaven Jesus is at God's right hand. Mark 16:19, Romans 8:34, 1 Peter 3:22, Acts 7:55-56

After Jesus ascended to heaven, what is recorded in the Bible about Jesus?
Col 1:3; Eph 1:17; 1 Cor 11:3; Heb 9:24; 1 Tim 2:5; 1 Cor 8:6; Rev 1:1

Since Jesus doesn't use the words that define the word Trinity, why are we even talking about this subject?
 
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YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
walt said:
Why do you put faith in a word that is not found in the Bible, "Trinity"? Why are you defending a word that is not in the Bible?
Is it explained by Jesus 3 are one one God? No! Jesus says God is one. -Mark 12:29
Does Jesus ever say he is equal to his Father? No! Jesus says differently. -John 5:19, 30, 8:28, 14:28

Jesus is called God's Son over 50 times in the Bible.
Jesus is called God's one and only son at John 3:16
Jesus is called God's only begotten son at John 1:14
After Jesus is raised from the dead, God is still his Father. John 20:17
In heaven Jesus is at God's right hand. Mark 16:19, Romans 8:34, 1 Peter 3:22, Acts 7:55-56

After Jesus ascended to heaven, what is recorded in the Bible about Jesus?
Col 1:3; Eph 1:17; 1 Cor 11:3; Heb 9:24; 1 Tim 2:5; 1 Cor 8:6; Rev 1:1

If Jesus doesn't explain any of the words that define the word Trinity, why are we even talking about this subject?
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In agreement, to say that I and the Father are one shows how closely Jesus is aligned with his heavenly Father out of love. He cannot be separated from his Father. He died for love of his Father and his disciples. He is one with his Father. Yes, does not mean he IS the Father or part of a so-called trinity. Also @jimb
 
jimb

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Re the OP: actually, Jesus is God. That is what the Bible clearly says and that is what I accept as true (plus my own personal experience with Him).
 
YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
jimb said:
Re the OP: actually, Jesus is God. That is what the Bible clearly says and that is what I accept as true (plus my own personal experience with Him).
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Jesus prayed to his father in heaven, and Jesus called him the only "true" God. He did not equate himself with the Father OR the holy spirit. If you look further, jimb, you will see that the holy spirit is really not a person-god. It is God's "holy spirit." Maybe another time we can go into that biblically. Take care, have a nice day.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
jimb said:
Re the OP: actually, Jesus is God. That is what the Bible clearly says and that is what I accept as true (plus my own personal experience with Him).
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Actually, Jesus is not God. That is not what the Bible clearly says so that is not what I accept as true.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
YoursTrue said:
Is that what bahaullah said? Because there are reasons why some believe Jesus is God and part of a Trinity.
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No, Baha'u'llah never said that. I figured it out by reading the Bible.

The reason why some believe Jesus is God and part of a Trinity is because that is what they were taught to believe by the church.
 
jimb

jimb

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
YoursTrue said:
Jesus prayed to his father in heaven, and Jesus called him the only "true" God. He did not equate himself with the Father OR the holy spirit. If you look further, jimb, you will see that the holy spirit is really not a person-god. It is God's "holy spirit." Maybe another time we can go into that biblically. Take care, have a nice day.
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You can believe whatever you want; I believe the Bible. You have a predetermined outcome, then select verses to "prove" your point. It's called eisegesis. It leads to all kinds of errors of interpretation. BTW, anyone can do it. Want proof? John 10:30, "The Father and I are one".

I have read the Bible many, many times, attended church for many years (including serving as a deacon), and have prayed more times than I can count. In addition, there are approximately 2.38 billion people Christians in the world, the great majority of whom believe that Jesus is divine.

Also, your interpretation of the Holy Spirit is also wrong. The Holy Spirit is also divine -- one-third of the Trinity -- and it is what makes us one with the Father and the Son. Those of us who have been "born again", i.e., have received the Holy Spirit, are God's adopted children and are a part of Christ Himself.

Those are the basic truths of Christianity, and have been so for roughly 2,000 years. If you don't accept them, then you are rejecting Christianity.

Read my "signature" below if you need further explanation.
 
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YoursTrue

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Trailblazer said:
No, Baha'u'llah never said that. I figured it out by reading the Bible.

The reason why some believe Jesus is God and part of a Trinity is because that is what they were taught to believe by the church.
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Did Bahaullah say he was infallible?
 
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