Jesus is not God

[Trailblazer]

Re the OP... "Jesus is not God" is an incorrect statement. He is God. Those who think He isn't don't understand the truth.

Re the OP... "Jesus is not God" is an correct statement. He is not God.
Those who think He is God don't understand the truth -- or the Bible!

John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Since no one has ever 'seen God' on that basis alone we know that Jesus cannot be God, since many people saw Jesus.
One would have to throw out most of the New Testament to maintain that Jesus is God, since many people saw Jesus in the NT

We also know that those who saw the face of Jesus continued to live, so Jesus could not have been God.
Exodus 33:20 But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

That is aside from the fact that if the Bible is correct in the way God is described, there is no way that Jesus can be God since God is All-powerful, All-knowing, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, and Immaterial, and Jesus did not have those attributes, since Jesus was a man and no man can have those attributes. That means that logically speaking Jesus is not God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Re the OP... "Jesus is not God" is a correct statement. He is NOT God. Those who think He is don't understand the truth.

Nothing in the Scriptures supports Jesus being God and simple Logic tells us that Jesus cannot be God.
The verses below explain why Jesus is not God, and why Jesus CANNOT be God.

Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

John 8:40 But now ye seek to slay me, a man that have spoken to you [the] truth, that I heard of God; Abraham did not this thing.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus said that God was greater than He was:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

How could Jesus pray to and go to the Father if Jesus WAS the God the Father?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Moreover, Jesus said that no man has ever seen God:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Jesus said He was from God and that God sent Him, again differentiating Himself from God:

John 17:3 And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.

Jesus even stated specifically that the Father had knowledge which was not possessed by the Son.

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Jesus IS NOT God Bible Quotes... Continued:

2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Since you don't believe the Bible, it's really no use imo, of course, for you to quote from it, as if you understand it or know what it means.

 

[Trailblazer]

Since you don't believe the Bible, it's really no use imo, of course, for you to quote from it, as if you understand it or know what it means.

When did I say I don't believe the Bible?
I do not believe all the fictitious stories in the Bible are literally true, but that doesn't mean I don't believe other things that are written.

I will probably fight the false beliefs of Christianity until the day I die, because truth is very important to me.
All Christian beliefs are not false but some of them are. The two most atrocious false beliefs that I will fight are:

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is going to return to earth

 

[YoursTrue]

When did I say I don't believe the Bible?
I do not believe all the fictitious stories in the Bible are literally true, but that doesn't mean I don't believe other things that are written.

I will probably fight the false beliefs of Christianity until the day I die, because truth is very important to me.
All Christian beliefs are not false but some of them are. The two most atrocious false beliefs that I will fight are:

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is going to return to earth

I do not believe you understand what you're saying anyway, and I'm not about to get "into it" with you now. Take care.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not believe you understand what you're saying anyway, and I'm not about to get "into it" with you now. Take care.

I understand exactly what I am saying, but I'm not about to get "into it" with you now.
Suffice to say, nobody knows what I understand, nor do I know what other people understand.

 

[walt]

Re the OP... "Jesus is not God" is a correct statement. He is NOT God. Those who think He is don't understand the truth.

Nothing in the Scriptures supports Jesus being God and simple Logic tells us that Jesus cannot be God.
The verses below explain why Jesus is not God, and why Jesus CANNOT be God.

Jesus claimed to reveal God, Whom He called Father, but Jesus differentiated Himself from God:

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself:

John 8:40 But now ye seek to slay me, a man that have spoken to you [the] truth, that I heard of God; Abraham did not this thing.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus said that God was greater than He was:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

How could Jesus pray to and go to the Father if Jesus WAS the God the Father?

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

John 16:16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Moreover, Jesus said that no man has ever seen God:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Jesus said He was from God and that God sent Him, again differentiating Himself from God:

John 17:3 And eternal life means to know you, the only true God, and to know Jesus Christ, whom you sent.

John 7:28 Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, Ye both know me, and ye know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom ye know not. 29 But I know him: for I am from him, and he hath sent me.

Jesus even stated specifically that the Father had knowledge which was not possessed by the Son.

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Jesus referred to Himself as a Prophet, and was so regarded. Jesus never referred to Himself as God.

Matthew 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Luke 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Jesus IS NOT God Bible Quotes... Continued:

2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

Romans 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

I think you are expressing the best way, letting the Bible do most all the talking! Most everybody on this thread really likes to argue! Instead of quoting only scripture to form their thoughts!

 

[Trailblazer]

He is fully human. Why? Because he was borne by Mary
He is fully God. Why? Because the Father begat him.

He was fully human because he was born as a human.
He is not fully God he was not born as God.

So yes, Jesus is a man who has a both a human and Divine nature.

That is true. Jesus was a human who had a both a human and Divine nature.

He is fully God because "in the beginning" he already was.

"In the beginning was the Word..."

In the beginning was God, not Jesus.

He is also Divine because scripture tells us he is Divine:

“In him [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Col 2:9)​

Cherry-picking verses won't work, but two can play at this game.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

An image is not what it reflects. If I look in the mirror and see my image I am not in the mirror. What I see in the mirror is only an image of me.
Also please note that the verses says "the invisible God." Jesus was not invisible since many people saw Jesus so Jesus could not have been God.

The things you claim God can and cannot be... These are conjectures and things conjured from your mind. They are not the teachings of scripture.

The things I claim that God is ARE in scripture.

The Bible describes God as is Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, and Immaterial, and Jesus did not have those attributes. That means that Jesus was not God.

Jesus's use of the definite article shows us he is THE way, THE truth, and THE life, and the only way he could be this at all is if he's GOD.

That is nothing more than your personal opinion and as such it can be disregarded.
Baha'u'llah was THE way, THE truth, and THE life for the age in which we live, but He was not God. He was a messenger/manifestation of God.

If "NOTHING" is a created thing, then it was created by Jesus:

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible..." (Col 1:16)

These verses do not say that all things were created by Jesus. They say that all things were created by God.

Colossians 1
14 [Jesus] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 [Jesus] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him [the invisible God] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Not "some things", not a "few things", not "everything but" but "all" things.

Nothing was created by Jesus. Everything was created by God.

Genesis 1 King James Version​

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.​

In the beginning God (Jesus) created everything that was created, and He created everything ALONE and by Himself:

Isaiah 44:24 “Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, 'I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching our the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone.”

The LORD and our redeemer is God, not Jesus.
The one who formed you from the womb is God, not Jesus.
The LORD, maker of all things, is God, not Jesus.

Scripture cannot be broken, and no matter which way you slice and dice, Jesus is God.

Scripture cannot be broken, so no matter which way you slice and dice, Jesus is not God.

 

[walt]

This means everlasting life their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. -John 17:3

I and the Father are one. -John 10:30

Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? -John 14:9

And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, -John 5:37

No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. -John 6:46

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. New King James Bible John 17:20-23

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” -John 20:17 NIV

Does Jesus explain himself? Or do we settle for just our favorite scriptures?
What if we look for harmony and include every scripture?

 

[walt]

If we value all Jesus words, does it help us to understand the following words?

Jesus said, I am “the bread of life,” “the light of the world,” “the gate,” “the good shepherd,” “the resurrection and the life,” “the way and the truth and the life,” and “the true vine” (John 6:48; 8:12; 10:9,11; 11:25; 14:6; 15:1).

Who in their right mind would not listen to Jesus every word? Is all Jesus words valuable to you?

For I did not speak from Myself, but the Father Himself, having sent Me, gave Me a commandment, what I should say and what I should speak. -John 12:49 Berean literal Bible

Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. -John 5:19 NIV

For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. -John 6:38 New King James Bible

“My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work,” Jesus told them. -John 4:34 Christian Standard Bible

I cannot of myself do any thing. As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of him that sent me. -John 5:30 Douay-Rheims Bible

Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. -John 7:16 NIV

Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God. -Matthew 4:4 NIV

He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.
Matt 26:42 King James Bible

I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. -John 17:4 New King James Bible

Then Jesus came near and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. -Matt 28:18 Holman Christian Standard Bible

So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on My own, but speak exactly what My Father has taught Me. -John 8:28 Majority Standard Bible

 

[cataway]

When did I say I don't believe the Bible?
I do not believe all the fictitious stories in the Bible are literally true, but that doesn't mean I don't believe other things that are written.

I will probably fight the false beliefs of Christianity until the day I die, because truth is very important to me.
All Christian beliefs are not false but some of them are. The two most atrocious false beliefs that I will fight are:

1) Jesus is God
2) Jesus is going to return to earth

Jesus returning to earth, as a man ?? why would he do that and then to be where , Israel ?? his whole kingdom is the over the earth. much of Christendom would like to think that Jesus would returning to Israel to do that. they are wrong.

 

[jimb]

I think you are expressing the best way, letting the Bible do most all the talking! Most everybody on this thread really likes to argue! Instead of quoting only scripture to form their thoughts!

Such as this example? Where is the scripture quote in your post?

 

[walt]

Such as this example? Where is the scripture quote in your post?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. -2 Timothy 3:16-17

 

[Trailblazer]

Then Jesus came near and said to them, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. -Matt 28:18 Holman Christian Standard Bible

I believe that Jesus had all authority given to Him by God while He was on earth.
Christians think Jesus still has authority on earth but I do not think He has authority on earth anymore.
The following verses seem to support that.

John 9
4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Jesus said that as long as He was in the world, He was the light of the world.
Jesus never said that He was the light of the world for all of eternity, as Christians believe He is.

 

[jimb]

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. -2 Timothy 3:16-17

That wasn't in your previous message, "I think you are expressing the best way, letting the Bible do most all the talking! Most everybody on this thread really likes to argue! Instead of quoting only scripture to form their thoughts!" -> No scripture <-

If Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, why didn't you use it?

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus returning to earth, as a man ?? why would he do that and then to be where , Israel ?? his whole kingdom is the over the earth. much of Christendom would like to think that Jesus would returning to Israel to do that. they are wrong.

Yes, Christendom is wrong about the return of the man Jesus who walked the earth 2000 years ago.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11)

 

[walt]

That wasn't in your previous message, "I think you are expressing the best way, letting the Bible do most all the talking! Most everybody on this thread really likes to argue! Instead of quoting only scripture to form their thoughts!" -> No scripture <-

If Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, why didn't you use it?

I was giving a Trailblazer a compliment I didn't think I had to quote a scripture.

 

[cataway]

Yes, Christendom is wrong about the return of the man Jesus who walked the earth 2000 years ago.
(John 14:19, John 16:10, John 17:4, John 17:11)

Christendom is ,not the JW's

 

[Trailblazer]

Christendom is ,not the JW's

I think Christendom would say it is the JWs who are wrong.
As a Baha'i, I think they are both wrong.

 

[Oeste]

He was fully human because he was born as a human.

It's hard to keep up with you @Trailblazer.

Now Jesus is human again when before he was only part human.

He is not fully God

Of course he is.

"In him dwelleth the fullness of the godhead bodily." (Col 2:9)​

he was not born as God.

Strawman.

Mormons may believe this, but orthodox Christians do not.

Jesus pre-existed as God prior to his birth as the Son of Man. As the begotten Son of God he is God. As the Son of Man, he is man. That is the pattern set by God.

There is no pattern where frogs beget dogs, or hippos beget geese. When you show us one, you'll have a convincing argument that God begets men. Until then, all you have is a very nonsensical and unconvincing dogma.

He is fully God because "in the beginning" he already was.

"In the beginning was the Word..."

In the beginning was God, not Jesus.

Sorry @Trailblazer, but it's pretty clear Jesus is the Word, and that "In the beginning..." he already was:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)​

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us" (John 1:14) ​

"He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God"(Revelation 19:13)​

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

An image is not what it reflects. If I look in the mirror and see my image I am not in the mirror. What I see in the mirror is only an image of me.

The Son of Man is able to reflect and see what the Father is doing because he is also the Son of God.

Also please note that the verses says "the invisible God." Jesus was not invisible since many people saw Jesus so Jesus could not have been God.

The Son of Man is quite visible, no one is claiming otherwise. However, the preexistent Jesus was NOT visible. Jesus has a DUAL nature @Trailblazer. He is fully God and fully man. Not a piece of this and a part of that, and Jesus is certainly not the Father.

The Bible describes God as is Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, and Immaterial, and Jesus did not have those attributes. That means that Jesus was not God.

I'm not sure you understand what "dual" means in "dual nature". He is FULLY God and FULLY man, so of course, as FULLY God he has all the attributes of God, and as FULLY man, he has all the attributes of man. You have shown nothing to refute this.

These verses do not say that all things were created by Jesus. They say that all things were created by God.

Of course these verses state all things were created by Jesus! Did you even bother to read the text in context??

Colossians 1
14 [Jesus] In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 [Jesus] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him [the invisible God] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

That was HORRENDOUS @Trailblazer.
Verse 16 is STILL about the preexistent Jesus. The subject has not been "switched".

Please read Hebrews 1:2:
“In these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.”

Nothing was created by Jesus. Everything was created by God.

Genesis 1 King James Version​

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.​

Nothing???

I suggest refraining from "proof texts" and reading Genesis 1, Colossians 1, and Hebrews 1 again. GOD, not just the Father, worked ALONE. All three persons of our one, triune God had a hand in creation.

The LORD and our redeemer is God, not Jesus.
The one who formed you from the womb is God, not Jesus.
The LORD, maker of all things, is God, not Jesus.

Our redeemer is not Jesus???

Nonsensical @Trailblazer. Apparently you are proof texting or allowing yourself to be proof texted.

This will help:

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace. (Eph 1:7)​

​

He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9:12)​

​

Jesus said that as long as He was in the world, He was the light of the world.
Jesus never said that He was the light of the world for all of eternity, as Christians believe He is.

Incorrect and untrue!

"When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will NEVER walk in darkness, but will have the light of life" (John 8:12)​

​

"The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?" (Psalm 27)

The same Lord providing light at Psalm 27 is the same Lord at John 8:12.

There is but one true light, one true Savior, not two lights with two Saviors, and that's because Jesus is God.

 

[walt]

He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Highest. And the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He shall reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there shall be no end. -Luke 1:32-33 Modern King James Version

• And the Lord God shall give Him the throne of His father David.
• And He shall reign over the house of Jacob
• Forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
• According to the earliest teachings about Christ Jesus, recorded in one of the four Gospels.
• Through the line of David, Jesus will reign over the house of Jacob forever and of his kingdom there shall be no end.