Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know that the following is correct:
Christ is the image of God
Christ is NOT GOD because an image is not what it is imaging...
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Jesus is not God
- Thread starter andy
- Start date
Christ is the image of God
Christ is NOT GOD because an image is not what it is imaging...
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not that I did not believe you, I just did not understand what you meant.
Now that you pointed out what you did I can see why Isaiah 62:2 could be about Jesus, but if it is about Jesus what was his old name?
"And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name."
No, I do not think that the name is referring to Jews and Christians. Thou does not refer to a group of people, it refers to a certain individual.
God was known by all the Messengers Names prior to Jesus.
Noah
Abraham
Moses
And the many more
Regards Tony
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You said that the Qu'ran is God's word...so you should know what you're talking about, right?
You said that the Qu'ran is "God's word through Muhammad." OK, take care, bye for now..
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So a mirror image is reflecting what is being imaged, right?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Christ was alive. He was the image of God. You believe in a Trinity of sorts. Is that what Bahaullah said?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Right.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Correct.
I do believe in a Trinity of sorts. That is what the Baha'i Faith teaches, so it is embedded in the Writings of Baha'u'llah.
Question.—What is the meaning of the Trinity, of the Three Persons in One?
Answer.—The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from the understanding of human beings and which can never be imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is exempt from all conception. That Lordly Reality admits of no division; for division and multiplicity are properties of creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents which happen to the self-existent..............
God is pure perfection, and creatures are but imperfections. For God to descend into the conditions of existence would be the greatest of imperfections; on the contrary, His manifestation, His appearance, His rising are like the reflection of the sun in a clear, pure, polished mirror. All the creatures are evident signs of God, like the earthly beings upon all of which the rays of the sun shine. But upon the plains, the mountains, the trees and fruits, only a portion of the light shines, through which they become visible, and are reared, and attain to the object of their existence, while the Perfect Man 2 is in the condition of a clear mirror in which the Sun of Reality becomes visible and manifest with all its qualities and perfections. So the Reality of Christ was a clear and polished mirror of the greatest purity and fineness. The Sun of Reality, the Essence of Divinity, reflected itself in this mirror and manifested its light and heat in it; but from the exaltation of its holiness, and the heaven of its sanctity, the Sun did not descend to dwell and abide in the mirror. No, it continues to subsist in its exaltation and sublimity, while appearing and becoming manifest in the mirror in beauty and perfection.
Now if we say that we have seen the Sun in two mirrors—one the Christ and one the Holy Spirit—that is to say, that we have seen three Suns, one in heaven and the two others on the earth, we speak truly. And if we say that there is one Sun, and it is pure singleness, and has no partner and equal, we again speak truly.
The epitome of the discourse is that the Reality of Christ was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality—that is to say, the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and attributes—became visible in the mirror. The meaning is not that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became divided and multiplied—for the Sun is one—but it appeared in the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this mirror.
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which becomes visible and evident in the Reality of Christ. The Sonship station is the heart of Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the station of the spirit of Christ. Hence it has become certain and proved that the Essence of Divinity is absolutely unique and has no equal, no likeness, no equivalent. (Some Answered Questions, pp. 113-115)
You can read the whole chapter on the following link:
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Isaiah 62:1 For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent,
for Jerusalem’s sake I will not remain quiet,
till her vindication shines out like the dawn,
her salvation like a blazing torch.
2 The nations will see your vindication,
and all kings your glory;
you will be called by a new name
that the mouth of the Lord will bestow.
3 You will be a crown of splendor in the Lord’s hand,
a royal diadem in the hand of your God.
4 No longer will they call you Deserted,
or name your land Desolate.
I decided to put this in context with verses around it. I think this refers to Jews becoming Baha'is eventually. Most of the jews rejected Jesus, and also Muhammad, thus they were not "a royal diadem". Before that they have been "desolate".
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I understand what you mean now. That is a great interpretation!
Given the context, I don't think that verse should not be included with the New Name verses in the Book of Revelation.
cataway
Well-Known Member
how could a perfect God be split 3 ways ? as soon as one part separates he would no longer be complete
cataway
Well-Known Member
odd that he did not know that until being baptized
cataway
Well-Known Member
oh ,,thats not happening
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, God cannot be split 3 ways and the chapter below explains why.
“Question.—What is the meaning of the Trinity, of the Three Persons in One?
Answer.—The Divine Reality, which is purified and sanctified from the understanding of human beings and which can never be imagined by the people of wisdom and of intelligence, is exempt from all conception. That Lordly Reality admits of no division; for division and multiplicity are properties of creatures which are contingent existences, and not accidents which happen to the self-existent.
The Divine Reality is sanctified from singleness, then how much more from plurality. The descent of that Lordly Reality into conditions and degrees would be equivalent to imperfection and contrary to perfection, and is, therefore, absolutely impossible. It perpetually has been, and is, in the exaltation of holiness and sanctity. All that is mentioned of the Manifestations and Dawning-places of God signifies the divine reflection, and not a descent into the conditions of existence. 1
God is pure perfection, and creatures are but imperfections. For God to descend into the conditions of existence would be the greatest of imperfections; on the contrary, His manifestation, His appearance, His rising are like the reflection of the sun in a clear, pure, polished mirror.All the creatures are evident signs of God, like the earthly beings upon all of which the rays of the sun shine. But upon the plains, the mountains, the trees and fruits, only a portion of the light shines, through which they become visible, and are reared, and attain to the object of their existence, while the Perfect Man 2 is in the condition of a clear mirror in which the Sun of Reality becomes visible and manifest with all its qualities and perfections. So the Reality of Christ was a clear and polished mirror of the greatest purity and fineness. The Sun of Reality, the Essence of Divinity, reflected itself in this mirror and manifested its light and heat in it; but from the exaltation of its holiness, and the heaven of its sanctity, the Sun did not descend to dwell and abide in the mirror. No, it continues to subsist in its exaltation and sublimity, while appearing and becoming manifest in the mirror in beauty and perfection.
Now if we say that we have seen the Sun in two mirrors—one the Christ and one the Holy Spirit—that is to say, that we have seen three Suns, one in heaven and the two others on the earth, we speak truly. And if we say that there is one Sun, and it is pure singleness, and has no partner and equal, we again speak truly.
The epitome of the discourse is that the Reality of Christ was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality—that is to say, the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and attributes—became visible in the mirror. The meaning is not that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became divided and multiplied—for the Sun is one—but it appeared in the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this mirror.
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God which becomes visible and evident in the Reality of Christ. The Sonship station is the heart of Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the station of the spirit of Christ.Hence it has become certain and proved that the Essence of Divinity is absolutely unique and has no equal, no likeness, no equivalent.
This is the signification of the Three Persons of the Trinity. If it were otherwise, the foundations of the Religion of God would rest upon an illogical proposition which the mind could never conceive, and how can the mind be forced to believe a thing which it cannot conceive? A thing cannot be grasped by the intelligence except when it is clothed in an intelligible form; otherwise, it is but an effort of the imagination.
It has now become clear, from this explanation, what is the meaning of the Three Persons of the Trinity. The Oneness of God is also proved.”
1. Cf. “Pantheism,” p. 290.
2. The Divine Manifestation.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not really odd since the Holy Spirit had not descended upon Him until he was baptized.
No, you just think I'm confused. Unlike yourself, I understand what the Bible says.
I don't use a single translation. I read several in order to understand the ancient languages as clearly as possible.
Where does it say that Noah is God? Or Abraham? Or Moses? Or anyone other than Jesus?
LOL! I and every other person, is body, soul, and spirit. Similarly. God is the Trinity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
It saddens me that your reasoning is so limited. Your predetermined philosophy is blinding you!
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
Yes, I saw the trophy you gave me for that post.