Jesus is not God

[Trailblazer]

What about it? Jesus clearly states "... just as you Father are in me and I am in you." Clearly they are inseparable.

The Father is in the Son because Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror. This is why Jesus said, “The Father is in the Son” (John 14:11, John 17:21), meaning that God was visible and manifest in Jesus, and that is why Jesus was a Manifestation of God.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Jesus was a Manifestation of God, as the Bible clearly says, but a Manifestation of God is not God incarnate.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

You can't get it any plainer than that. God was manifest in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. If God had been incarnated in the flesh, then God would have become flesh and we would be able to see God; but Jesus said no man has ever seen God. We know that many people saw Jesus so that is one way we know that Jesus was not God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 

[Trailblazer]

BTW, why do you call yourself "TheFragranceOfHoliness" when you are clearly just the opposite?

Why do you call yourself a Christian when you don't follow the teachings of Jesus?

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"Angels" for Bahais are dead humans.

Angel's in the Baha'i Wrirings are those people that were so born again into the Holy Spirit, that they gave their lives and efforts for all humanity. These are those that were martyred for faith and the Saints that lived the faith, found in all the ages God sends the Messengers.

Dead humans, are dead humans, let the dead bury the dead.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

@TheFragranceOfHoliness -- what makes you think that you have knowledge of God (including Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit)? From what you write, you clearly do NOT have that knowledge.

Look at the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ohhh ty for saying that your religion says that Satan does not exist. That means I guess that you believe Satan does not exist. Interesting to say the least. Did you say if your religion teaches and whether you believe that angels exist?

My religion teaches that Satan is not an entity external to the self so Satan has no independent existence.

I already replied that I believe that angels exist.

 

[Eli G]

Angel's in the Baha'i Wrirings are those people that were so born again into the Holy Spirit, that they gave their lives and efforts for all humanity. ...

Regards Tony

Is the expression "born again into the Holy Spirit" something BahaUllah stole out of the Christian Writings?

Joseph Smith quoted directly form the KJV of his day, and told his followers that these quotes were dictated by an angel .

It is very easy to know that today, because the KJV has many errors in translations that have been corrected in modern versions, like spurious texts and so. But Smith told his followers that all his writings were dictated by the angel Moroni.

Since BahaUllah seems to quote many expressions from the NT, could he have possibly made a trick similar to Smith's?

 

[Trailblazer]

"Is the expression "born again into the Holy Spirit" something BahaUllah stole out of the Christian Writings?'

Baha'u'llah did not have to steal anything from the Bible because He received His own revelation from God.
The reason what Baha'u'llah revealed sounds similar to what Jesus said is because they were both sent by the same God.

 

[Eli G]

Even if Smith's tricks are publicly known, and there were many, Mormons still think he was a prophet of God.

If Smith had been before BahaUllah, he would surely have included him in his group of "messengers" as well, in order to try to get some of his followers. He did so with the "enlightened ones" of almost every previous religion.

But the true God always had only one accepted Way among humans: the family of Seth, that of Noah, that of Shem, that of Abraham, that of Israel... and then the true Christians. In those intervals there have been many wise men like Buddha, Confucius, and so many more, but none of them were even comparable to Solomon, much less to Jesus.

The wisdom that belongs to the world does not bring anyone closer to God.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It is really simple.
None of you will obey God,
and you certainly will not obey Jesus.
So why do any of you care one way or the other
if Jesus is God?

“None of you will obey God,
and you certainly will not obey Jesus.”

So you will know what I will do in the future?
Who are you to judge me or anyone?! See to yourself, not others. - 1 Thessalonians 4:11

So why do any of you care one way or the other
if Jesus is God?

Because Jehovah God cares. Exodus 20:2-6

It is simple.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And Jesus said "the Father and I are one"! (John 10:30).

Why are you taking that out of context? (You accused me earlier for doing that.)

You’ve been shown John 17:21.
Now please read John 17:22..regarding His disciples, Jesus prayed:
“I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.”

Further point: who did Jesus say ‘gave’ him the glory? If he were God, he would have had it already.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because Jehovah God cares. Exodus 20:2-6

It is simple.

Exodus 20:2-6 New International Version​

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.​

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

Yet certain Christians have made Jesus into a God.
I find that appalling.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now please read John 17:22..regarding His disciples, Jesus prayed:
“I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.”

Further point: who did Jesus say ‘gave’ him the glory? If he were God, he would have had it already.

Excellent point!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Is the expression "born again into the Holy Spirit" something BahaUllah stole out of the Christian Writings?

Baha'u'llah quoted Jesus from the Bible as Baha'u'llah was the coming of the "Son" as the "Father", promised by Jesus the Christ, that would take of what is of Christ and shew it unto us. This passage fulfilled these Biblical predictions.

"... Such things have come to pass in the days of every Manifestation of God. Even as Jesus said: "Ye must be born again."[1] Again He saith: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."[2] The purport of these words is that whosoever in every dispensation is born of the Spirit and is quickened by the breath of the Manifestation of Holiness, he verily is of those that have attained unto "life" and "resurrection" and have entered into the "paradise" of the love of God. And whosoever is not of them, is condemned to "death" and "deprivation," to the "fire" of unbelief, and to the "wrath" of God. In all the scriptures, the books and chronicles, the sentence of death, of fire, of blindness, of want of understanding and hearing, hath been pronounced against those whose lips have tasted not the ethereal cup of true knowledge, and whose hearts have been deprived of the grace of the holy Spirit in their day. Even as it hath been previously recorded: "Hearts have they with which they understand not."[3] [1 John 3:7]. [2 John 3:5-6] [3 Qur'án 7:178] (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 118)

So it is our choice again, do we choose death, or will we be born again?

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

Baha'u'llah quoted Jesus from the Bible as Baha'u'llah was the coming of the "Son" as the "Father", promised by Jesus the Christ, that would take of what is of Christ and shew it unto us. This passage fulfilled these Biblical predictions.

"... Such things have come to pass in the days of every Manifestation of God. Even as Jesus said: "Ye must be born again."[1] Again He saith: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 118)

...

Regards Tony

I don't believe on BahaUllah's interpretation of Jesus' words, but thanks for quoting BahaUllah quoting Jesus.

Other Bahai told here that BahaUllah didn't use the Bible because he received every word from God. I thought on Joseph Smith...

If BahaUllah used the Bible and many other religious writings to assemble his own philosophy about "God's messengers" after-Jesus ...couldn't he have been mistaken in his interpretation like any other human (religious or not) who misinterprets the Bible and think to be inspired by the holly spirit?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't believe on BahaUllah's interpretation of Jesus' words, but thanks for quoting BahaUllah quoting Jesus.

Other Bahai told here that BahaUllah didn't use the Bible because he received every word from God. I thought on Joseph Smith...

If BahaUllah used the Bible and many other religious writings to assemble his own philosophy about "God's messengers" after-Jesus ...couldn't he have been mistaken in his interpretation like any other human (religious or not) who misinterprets the Bible and think to be inspired by the holly spirit?

The Revelation is from God. Remember Jesus quotes the Tanakh, because God gave the Revelation via Jesus as the Christ.

Muhammad quotes the Bible as well. Baha'u'llah quotes the Quran, Bible and many past traditions.

The key is, they did not learn this from schooling, it was innate knowledge given of God.

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

I am not a flatterer of inventors of philosophies; in the world (separated from God) there are many of them, and each and every one has followers. That a person feels "inspired" and actually publishes philosophical books, just as a writer feels inspired and publishes novels, obviously does not mean that his "inspiration" is divine.

Actually, BahaUllah teaches many things that are evidently contrary to the teachings of Jesus, such as the fact that the kingdom of God is in the hands of Christ and it is he who will come to earth to remove the rest of the world rulers to establish his divine authority over humanity for a thousand years. The "Bahaulian" version is very different from that.

Those different versions of the biblical teachings originate in the world, under inspiration not from God, because God cannot contradict Himself, nor can God's truth come from people who worship other gods, such as those BahaUllah considers "divine messengers."Those versions are from different "spirits" ... but BahaUllah says those evil spirits do not exist ...another doctrine contrary to the Bible.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am not a flatterer of inventors of philosophies; in the world (separated from God) there are many of them, and each and every one has followers. That a person feels "inspired" and actually publishes philosophical books, just as a writer feels inspired and publishes novels, obviously does not mean that his "inspiration" is divine.

Actually, BahaUllah teaches many things that are evidently contrary to the teachings of Jesus, such as the fact that the kingdom of God is in the hands of Christ and it is he who will come to earth to remove the rest of the world rulers to establish his divine authority over humanity for a thousand years. The "Bahaulian" version is very different from that.

Those different versions of the biblical teachings originate in the world, under inspiration not from God, because God cannot contradict Himself, nor can God's truth come from people who worship other gods, such as those BahaUllah considers "divine messengers."Those versions are from different "spirits" ... but BahaUllah says those evil spirits do not exist ...another doctrine contrary to the Bible.

That would be applicable to your interpretation and not to the interpretation given by God via the True Prophets and Messengers.

This is exactly why we must be born again, and now Christians have the exact test that others in the time of Jesus faced, yet think they are exempt.

It is a strange sleep humanity is in. Shoghi Effendi quotes Baha'u'llah.


“We verily,” He Himself has testified, “have not fallen short of Our duty to exhort men, and to deliver that whereunto I was bidden by God, the Almighty, the All-Praised. Had they hearkened unto Me, they would have beheld the earth another earth.” And again: “Is there any excuse left for anyone in this Revelation? No, by God, the Lord of the Mighty Throne! My signs have encompassed the earth, and My power enveloped all mankind, and yet the people are wrapped in a strange sleep!”

Regards Tony

 

[Eli G]

That would be applicable to your interpretation and not to the interpretation given by God via the True Prophets and Messengers.

This is exactly why we must be born again, and now Christians have the exact test that others in the time of Jesus faced, yet think they are exempt.

It is a strange sleep humanity is in. ...

Regards Tony

I don't believe in your prophets as much as I don't believe in Joseph Smith and the rest of Mormons prophets.

Did you know that Mormons have new prophets every so often? According to them, each new prophet receives new revelations from God, and they treat them exactly as you treat your prophet and any new ones that your leaders approve for you at some point.

There are international brotherhoods of old, some well-known and some not so well-known, who believe that the truth of God is spread across many religions and given through many people. They even have rituals, some symbolic and some not so much, because they truly believe that they receive enlightenment directly from the Creator of the Universe.

It happens that everyone who does not realize that there are real wicked spiritual forces in the world trying to deceive everyone they can, is exposed to this kind of deception. They believe that they have reached the pinnacle of knowledge, but in reality they have reached the chambers of darkness, where they are made to believe that they have access to hidden knowledge, but the doors that lead them to the narrow path that leads to eternal life are being closed to them.

Go back to Jesus and meet the truth. He will come back to the planet to judge the world, and believe me, there is no modern "messenger of a god" that will save from his hand.

 

[cataway]

Exodus 20:2-6 New International Version​

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.​

3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.

Yet certain Christians have made Jesus into a God.
I find that appalling.

perhaps you have yet to figure it out ,the JW's feel the same way!
in reality there can only be one way to worship that Jehovah God will except . all other so-called Christians religions are ignored ,he has no obligation to them .
there is evidence that there are souls that do have a yearning to give true worship . they are being found, separated out ,even as sheep and goats would be separated .

 

[JerryMyers]

Of course the Bible can be misinterpreted (sometimes intentionally). Just look at what @Trailblazer posts if you want a perfect example.

On another note, the source documents of the Bible are ancient, often incomplete, scrolls that sometimes have differences. Then they are translated into other languages, for example, English. (Note: the King James translation that some people rely on is written in archaic Englyshe -- a dead language.

However, in almost every translation, God's message is understood by those willing to understand it.

Yes, the Bible can be misinterpreted (and mistranslated), and why do I have to look at @Trailblazer posts??

I just have to look at your posts!! You are an excellent example of how the Bible can be misinterpreted – just look at how you misinterpreted John 1, John 10:30!! You must have missed my earlier posts (#1817, #1818) in response to you.

I guess you must be one of those who are NOT willing to understand what you read in the Bible. <sigh>