Jesus is not God

[Oeste]

Oeste said:
You have yet to disclose exactly which scriptures you think true and which lies. All you can tell us is that you have a preconceived notion, and if the scripture you are reading does not meet the standard of the preconceived notion, then you toss it out.
So all of scripture is subject to your personal interpretation, and no one here has the slightest idea of how you may have interpreted a particular passage, because no one here can read your mind. This is why I asked for your single source of truth.

How many times must I tell you???
Any passage that DO NOT CONTRADICT what God Almighty already DECLARED OF HIMSELF, and of what Jesus already said of himself, can be accepted as true.

So which passages do you believe DO NOT CONTRADICT???

I've been asking you to post them for quite awhile now. Just because YOU think they contradict, does not mean anyone else thinks they contradict.

Also, as to what GOD ALMIGHT ALREADY DECLARED OF HIMSELF, He declared Jesus GOD! I've showed you this already, right in Hebrews 1:8, yet you refuse to believe it, and you dismiss it, instantly REFUTING your own PRECONCEPTION!!

But about the Son he says,​

​

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;​

a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)​

I'm pretty sure Christians will need something more than personal opinion that Hebrews 1:8 is unscriptural. As for non-Christians, they require no evidence at all.

Which part of that statement did you find so difficult to comprehend??

You claim Hebrews 1:8 is unscriptural without evidence, which is incomprehensible to me. You may want to start there and give some external sources that support your opinion.

Your claim that the scripture is invalid because the opening phrase "But about the Son he says" is not found in Psalm 45 is nonsensical, since Hebrew 1 is itself scripture.

Oeste said:
If you don't have one, just say so. You could have multiple for all I care. But I'm not going to start posting scripture with you as it would be a waste of time.

Like you don’t have an answer to this one – can you show me from the scripture that Jesus preached trinity in his lifetime on earth?? If you don't have one, just say so. You could have multiple for all I care.

So you have no sources that support your rather unique, aberrant position and now you wish to say trinitarians all through history had none to support their position, even though you can go to any book store and find plenty of material, but you don't wish to do so? And this is how over 2 1/2 billion people (not including those who have preceded us) came to believe Jesus is God? And that it is Jerry Myers, a non-Christian who has a personal, unique view that no believing Christian church shares, who espouses a scripture rejecting theology, and whose preconceived, non vetted, and yet to be expressed in any reputable, peer reviewed article by any theological or secular body whatsoever, is somehow truth???

That is too funny!

Look, perhaps this is secret knowledge you cannot share. I understand some churches have gnostic leanings and are like that. One must reach a certain level before the source or secret knowledge can be shared. Perhaps it's a particular name or teaching they are dying to share and very important for you to know, so that you may be blessed or gain "true" knowledge, elevate your status in the world or the world to come, gain you friends, love, companionship, money or anything else your heart desires if only you would humble yourself to their teaching and become their willing apprentice or some such. I think we have all seen plenty of people trolling and alluding to such on the forum.

But I can assure you that I neither go to such a church or buy in to any such doctrine. In any event, that's me, not you. I just don't feel like wasting time arguing the veracity of scripture with someone who refuses to accept it.

Likewise, when we are discussing a doctrine I adhere to, I am willing to discuss it, and I can point you to plenty of sources besides myself, but if you cannot, that's fine. But since you don't believe our biblical cannon is the word of God I'm really not your guy. Once you claim 10% of our cannon is bogus with no support except your private interpretation it really becomes a non-starter for me. I may be willing to discuss the basis for your non-belief, but I'm not going to waste time citing scripture you consider bogus. I'd much rather talk to folk who already know scripture is true, or those who feel lost, abused, or are in search of a good spiritual home. It's a much more productive use of my time.

Oeste said:
No, you dismissed it. You rebutted nothing.

Doubt you understand the difference between “dismiss” and “rebut”.

I share no such doubt.

You claimed you "rebutted" Hebrews 1:8 when in actuality you simply dismissed it as unscriptural.

You point to no source for your claimed rebuttal except your own personal opinion based on a preconception.

A good example is how you respond to my request to show from the scripture where Jesus preached trinity in his lifetime on earth. You can check that by reviewing your comments on that matter.

I did. I've also posted numerous other scriptures and I've told you how you can get additional information from you're neighborhood book store if you're so inclined. You've told us you are not so inclined.

You've already told the readers of your precondition that must be satisfied before a scripture becomes believable, a presupposition that is immediately contradictory.

What you haven't told us is the source of this preconception. Instead the reader is left hanging as to what bias or misinformation this preconception is based on. (Romans 3:4)

When someone rebuts an argument, they are actively engaging with it and providing counterarguments or evidence to support their counterarguments – which is what I have been doing most of the time.

You have done no such thing. All you've told us is that you will agree with scripture that you like, and claim it bogus if you don't.

A good example is how I explained to you how the Jews have mistaken Jesus’ statement “I and my Father are one” as his claim of being God. You can check that by reviewing my comments on that matter.

Yes, I discussed this with you before. And what was your response?:

Oeste said:
The statement "The Father and I are one" is certainly a statement of deity. Remember, Jesus is not simply stating the Father is in him. He is stating that he is in the Father.

BS!

It's hard to get pass such a visceral response, but it makes anything further you have to say about scripture uninteresting. When coupled with your statement that 10% of scripture is bogus, it makes further conversation untenable.

Simply put, dismissing means rejecting an argument without seriously engaging with it, and taking the readers on ‘run-arounds' explanations, while rebutting involves actively challenging with counter evidence or reasoning against it.

It's hard to take a response of "BS!" seriously, and I feel no need to seriously engage with it.

However ,I am still awaiting YOUR explanation of WHICH scriptures you reject, WHY you reject it, and WHERE we can find a reasoned basis for your denial and WHAT process you used to verify 10% as unscriptural. Until then, any discussion is pointless.

Oeste said:
What has that got to do with anything when it's all scripture?

How about everything…??

This response tells the reader nothing.

Oeste said:
Unless you are willing to subject yourself or accept our canon as scripture...AND I'M NOT REFERRING JUST TO THE PARTS YOU LIKE... then what is the point of further discussion?

Now, why would I do that when you can’t even support what you believe other than giving us the 'round-arounds' and/or showing verses from the scripture that you cannot even explain??

See above.

Oeste said:
At the end of the day, the Christian world will still be Trinitarian, and you will be tossing out scripture, right along with the atheists, skeptics, and non-believers.

And that was supposed to make the Trinitarians right????! LOL!

Wrong, LOL!

It simply makes the job of anyone trying to "prove" Jesus is not God all the much harder.

It's all based in scripture, and it's how Christians know Jesus is God.

 

[Soapy]

Thank you Soapy! As Christians we all try to follow our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as best we can.



Well I must say I do enjoy some of the conversations here. If others are tempted to respond in kind then it's all very good.


However the reader slices and dices it, Jesus clearly ascribes "I AM" to himself.

Of course!
Not only I but over two and a half billion others.

So Jesus says he's God, the "I Am", a term the Jews immediately recognized as spoken to Moses, and the Father says Jesus is God at Hebrews 1:8. One really can't ask for better.



Your confused as there are no three Gods in the trinity.

I recommend you read a good book on the trinity. The teaching is very clear...there is only one God.



Oh c'mon Soapy! We all know you didn't post the entire verse here, and either conveniently or deceptively left out the end. How does that ending go? Oh yeah.... "...AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent".






The Son of God is "the same yesterday, today and tomorrow." (Hebrews 13:8) He is, as you clearly state, ETERNALLY THE SAME!!

Why have you dismissed this verse?


Then there is but one true God.

Look, I appreciate the fact you believe there are other Gods and that the judge is actually God in the courtroom. I don't happen to believe that. God is always God no matter where I am, so there will always be someone mightier than anything man can make or create.

As a Christian, there are no other Gods but God. Scripture is very clear on this. We have no other so-called Gods, so while you can certainly claim as many Gods as you wish, for the Christian there will always be but one God. This holds true regardless of the judge or emperor.

There is no other God BUT THE FATHER…
I think that is what you meant to write.

Also, scripture tells us there are ‘Other Gods’ in terms of ‘Those who CLAIM to be a God’. Therefore, to be emphatic, it is claimed by Jesus that:

• The Father is ‘the only TRUE God’

 

[Oeste]

There is no other God BUT THE FATHER…

I'm not seeing that in scripture.

I think that is what you meant to write.

Of course not. The Father is God though

Also, scripture tells us there are ‘Other Gods’ in terms of ‘Those who CLAIM to be a God’.

Exactly! Any other God but God is a false God. This is why they come under judgement.

The Father is ‘the only TRUE God’

"...AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent".

I think that is what you meant to write.

 

[JerryMyers]

Oeste said:
The minority of Christians who believe Jesus is not God does not verify Jesus is not God, it simply means a minority of Christians accept the belief Jesus is not God.

Congrats! You finally figured out the concept of ‘the majority and the minority’ of the Christian population!

So, don’t give me that ‘2 billion and counting’ BS again!!

Oeste said:
That is not "the logic of my understanding".

Your ‘2 billion and counting’ response tells us THAT IS the logic of your understanding!!

Oeste said:
My understanding is not based on non-believers, it is base on scripture.

Really???! Then you should not have any problem in answering me - based on the scripture, – did Jesus preach the trinity in his lifetime on earth??

Oeste said:
JESUS IS GOD for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical cannon as true.

You should crawl out from your shell once in a while and travel the world. If you have done that, then you will realize the world population is NOT made up of Christians only!

So your continuous ranting of ‘JESUS IS GOD' for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical canon as true’, does NOT apply on the world stage!! Are you here to convince ONLY the Christians or what???

Oeste said:
You, on the other hand, hold some part true and some parts false. Which is which is held only in the mind of Jerry Myers, making further discussion regarding scripture pointless.

Yeah, I can understand that, especially when you cannot reasonably support anything you claimed!

Oeste said:
???
This is the biblical debates forum, not the non-Trinitarian forum. If the OP did not want trinitarians to post here, they would have selected another forum.

???
When did I say this is the non-Trinitarian and not the Biblical debates forum??

I asked you “... since you said this thread was never about the trinity then, what are you doing in this thread??” I DID NOT say “... since you said this Biblical debate forum was never about the trinity...."!!!

So let's try this again, what are doing in this thread??


Oeste said:
Yes, really. Trinitarians vastly outnumber non-Trinitarians in the church, so the issue is settled. Non-Trinitarians have there own churches, but compared to the church as a whole, they are relatively small in number.
I've already posted my reasoning to bible believing Christians. When I point out scriptures they take it seriously rather than simply dismiss them based on a preconceived notion subject to a self-developed criteria.
“..posted my reasoning to bible believing Christians”???

Are you here trying to convince that Jesus is God only to the Christians, especially the non-Trinitarian Christians??? I thought you were here to convince the non-Christians too as I understand the Forum Board welcomes everybody of any Faith.

Oeste said:
Post the scripture you think authentic Jerry Myers.

Let's be realistic here. There are about 5,900+ verses in the NT alone and you expect me to go through all the verses in the scripture and tell you which one I think is authentic and which one is not???!! Are you on drugs??

Even Jesus' disciples did not ask Jesus to give all the names of those who will come after him claiming to be the Christ when Jesus forewarned them to be wary of anyone who will come after he's gone, claiming to be him! The red flag here is the individuals who claim he is the Christ!!
Likewise, I am telling the readers any passage that CONTRADICTS what God Almighty already DECLARED OF HIMSELF, and of what Jesus already said of himself IS the red flag when reading the scripture!

On the other hand, I only asked you one verse/passage in the scripture - did Jesus preach the trinity in his lifetime on earth?? Post your answer, Oeste. If there is none, just say so instead of deflecting the question and giving us the 'run-around' nonsense!!

Oeste said:
See my answer above.

What answer above??!

Oeste said:
The Bahaullah? I really don't have the time.

Of course, you have the time!!
With this, that would be how many times you already have mentioned “Bahaullah”???

 

[JerryMyers]

Oeste said:
So which passages do you believe DO NOT CONTRADICT???
I've been asking you to post them for quite awhile now. Just because YOU think they contradict, does not mean anyone else thinks they contradict.
Also, as to what GOD ALMIGHT ALREADY DECLARED OF HIMSELF, He declared Jesus GOD! I've showed you this already, right in Hebrews 1:8, yet you refuse to believe it, and you dismiss it, instantly REFUTING your own PRECONCEPTION!!
But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. (Hebrews 1:8)
I'm pretty sure Christians will need something more than personal opinion that Hebrews 1:8 is unscriptural. As for non-Christians, they require no evidence at all.

First of all, God Almighty NEVER declared Jesus is God – THAT is your misinterpretation of Hebrews 1:8.

We all know, except you, Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6-7 in which there’s NO such phrase as “But about the Son he says …..” was mentioned!

Likewise, In Mark 12:29, Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 where Moses declared, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE”.
Did Jesus add anything to Moses’ words?? He did not.

If Jesus is God, he could easily have said “Hear O Israel! I am your Lord God and the Lord is One!”. Instead, Jesus repeated word for word what Moses said. Unlike Hebrews 1:8 which quoted Psalm 45:6-7, but inserted the phrase “But about the Son he says …..”, now, why would the author/translator of Hebrews 1:8 do that, if not to deceive naive readers like you to believe God had declared Jesus is God??

Tell you what - why don’t you show us a passage from the OT instead of the NT, where God Almighty refers to Jesus as God?? Maybe that would make your man-made trinity sounds ‘divine’.

Oeste said:
You claim Hebrews 1:8 is unscriptural without evidence, which is incomprehensible to me. You may want to start there and give some external sources that support your opinion.
Your claim that the scripture is invalid because the opening phrase "But about the Son he says" is not found in Psalm 45 is nonsensical, since Hebrew 1 is itself scripture.

Are you saying the phrase "But about the Son he says ..." is in Psalm 45??? Show me then!
If you can’t, then, it’s NOT Psalm 45 that is nonsensical, IT’S Hebrews 1 that is nonsensical!!

…. And did I say Hebrews 1 is NOT in the NT/scripture?? Try to read what I said, NOT what you think I said!

Oeste said:
So you have no sources that support your rather unique, aberrant position and now you wish to say trinitarians all through history had none to support their position, even though you can go to any book store and find plenty of material, but you don't wish to do so? And this is how over 2 1/2 billion people (not including those who have preceded us) came to believe Jesus is God? And that it is Jerry Myers, a non-Christian who has a personal, unique view that no believing Christian church shares, who espouses a scripture rejecting theology, and whose preconceived, non vetted, and yet to be expressed in any reputable, peer reviewed article by any theological or secular body whatsoever, is somehow truth???
That is too funny!

I agree, your comment here is too funny!!

In the scripture, God Almighty never said nor implied a ‘3-in-one’ God.
In the scripture, Jesus never said nor implied he’s God or part of a ‘3-in-1’ God.
In the scripture, Jesus never preached the trinity to his disciples or to anyone.

So, unless you can prove me wrong by showing me the above are in the scripture, all your comments and your rants of “Jesus is God” in this thread are hilariously nonsensical!

Oeste said:
Look, perhaps this is secret knowledge you cannot share. I understand some churches have gnostic leanings and are like that. One must reach a certain level before the source or secret knowledge can be shared. Perhaps it's a particular name or teaching they are dying to share and very important for you to know, so that you may be blessed or gain "true" knowledge, elevate your status in the world or the world to come, gain you friends, love, companionship, money or anything else your heart desires if only you would humble yourself to their teaching and become their willing apprentice or some such. I think we have all seen plenty of people trolling and alluding to such on the forum.
But I can assure you that I neither go to such a church or buy in to any such doctrine. In any event, that's me, not you. I just don't feel like wasting time arguing the veracity of scripture with someone who refuses to accept it.
Likewise, when we are discussing a doctrine I adhere to, I am willing to discuss it, and I can point you to plenty of sources besides myself, but if you cannot, that's fine. But since you don't believe our biblical cannon is the word of God I'm really not your guy. Once you claim 10% of our cannon is bogus with no support except your private interpretation it really becomes a non-starter for me. I may be willing to discuss the basis for your non-belief, but I'm not going to waste time citing scripture you consider bogus. I'd much rather talk to folk who already know scripture is true, or those who feel lost, abused, or are in search of a good spiritual home. It's a much more productive use of my time.

Blah, blah, blah, and more blah nonsense!

All this can only make sense when you show me (and the other readers) where in the scripture did:

- God Almighty said or implied a triune God,
- Jesus said or implied he’s God or part of a ‘3-in-1’ God.
- Jesus preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth.

The question is – can you???

Oeste said:
You claimed you "rebutted" Hebrews 1:8 when in actuality you simply dismissed it as unscriptural.
You point to no source for your claimed rebuttal except your own personal opinion based on a preconception.

I don’t know whether you are just playing dumb, or you do have reading and understanding issues!

I told you Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6-7 and in Psalm 45, there’s NO such phrase as “But about the Son he says …..” was mentioned!

That’s NOT a dismissal of your claim, that’s a rebuttal to your claim!!

The source of my claim is in Psalm 45!! If you want to rebut my claim, then show me where in Psalm 45 is the phrase “But about the Son he says ….” !!!

Oeste said:
I did. I've also posted numerous other scriptures and I've told you how you can get additional information from you're neighborhood book store if you're so inclined. You've told us you are not so inclined.

What??? You showed me from the scripture Jesus preached trinity????!! Where???
I hate to think of you as a liar, so show me where in the scripture did Jesus preach the trinity, please?

Oeste said:
You've already told the readers of your precondition that must be satisfied before a scripture becomes believable, a presupposition that is immediately contradictory.
What you haven't told us is the source of this preconception. Instead the reader is left hanging as to what bias or misinformation this preconception is based on. (Romans 3:4)

I did tell the readers - passages that DO NOT CONTRADICT what God Almighty already DECLARED OF HIMSELF, and of what Jesus already said of himself, can be accepted as true.

Did you see anything false in that statement???

Oeste said:
You have done no such thing. All you've told us is that you will agree with scripture that you like, and claim it bogus if you don't.

When did I say I only agree with scripture that I like and claim bogus if I don’t??? You DO have a serious issue in understanding what you read!!

Oeste said:
Yes, I discussed this with you before. And what was your response?:

What??? Do you even read my response?? Or are you just camouflaging your inability to support your own belief that Jesus is God??

Oeste said:
It's hard to get pass such a visceral response, but it makes anything further you have to say about scripture uninteresting. When coupled with your statement that 10% of scripture is bogus, it makes further conversation untenable.

You mean the scripture is 90% bogus??? Come on, don’t talk like that about your scripture.

Oeste said:
It's hard to take a response of "BS!" seriously, and I feel no need to seriously engage with it.

Sorry, you taking the readers on ‘run-around’ explanations is BS to me!!

Oeste said:
This response tells the reader nothing.

It tells the readers everything!
Your claim that Jesus is God is nonsense as long as you cannot show from the scripture
that –

- God Almighty said or implied of a triune God,
- Jesus said or implied he’s God or part of a ‘3-in-1’ God.
- Jesus preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth.

Oeste said:
See above.

See what above???!

Oeste said:
Wrong, LOL!
It simply makes the job of anyone trying to "prove" Jesus is not God all the much harder.
It's all based in scripture, and it's how Christians know Jesus is God.

You got that wrong, LOL!
It simply makes the job of anyone trying to “prove” Jesus is God all the much harder, as in the scripture,
- God Almighty NEVER said or implied of a triune God,
- Jesus NEVER said or implied he’s God or part of a ‘3-in-1’ God.
- Jesus NEVER preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth.

You want to prove me wrong??

 

[YoursTrue]

Oeste said:
The minority of Christians who believe Jesus is not God does not verify Jesus is not God, it simply means a minority of Christians accept the belief Jesus is not God.

Congrats! You finally figured out the concept of ‘the majority and the minority’ of the Christian population!

So, don’t give me that ‘2 billion and counting’ BS again!!

Oeste said:
That is not "the logic of my understanding".

Your ‘2 billion and counting’ response tells us THAT IS the logic of your understanding!!

Oeste said:
My understanding is not based on non-believers, it is base on scripture.

Really???! Then you should not have any problem in answering me - based on the scripture, – did Jesus preach the trinity in his lifetime on earth??

Oeste said:
JESUS IS GOD for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical cannon as true.

You should crawl out from your shell once in a while and travel the world. If you have done that, then you will realize the world population is NOT made up of Christians only!

So your continuous ranting of ‘JESUS IS GOD' for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical canon as true’, does NOT apply on the world stage!! Are you here to convince ONLY the Christians or what???

Oeste said:
You, on the other hand, hold some part true and some parts false. Which is which is held only in the mind of Jerry Myers, making further discussion regarding scripture pointless.

Yeah, I can understand that, especially when you cannot reasonably support anything you claimed!

Oeste said:
???
This is the biblical debates forum, not the non-Trinitarian forum. If the OP did not want trinitarians to post here, they would have selected another forum.

???
When did I say this is the non-Trinitarian and not the Biblical debates forum??

I asked you “... since you said this thread was never about the trinity then, what are you doing in this thread??” I DID NOT say “... since you said this Biblical debate forum was never about the trinity...."!!!

So let's try this again, what are doing in this thread??


Oeste said:
Yes, really. Trinitarians vastly outnumber non-Trinitarians in the church, so the issue is settled. Non-Trinitarians have there own churches, but compared to the church as a whole, they are relatively small in number.
I've already posted my reasoning to bible believing Christians. When I point out scriptures they take it seriously rather than simply dismiss them based on a preconceived notion subject to a self-developed criteria.
“..posted my reasoning to bible believing Christians”???

Are you here trying to convince that Jesus is God only to the Christians, especially the non-Trinitarian Christians??? I thought you were here to convince the non-Christians too as I understand the Forum Board welcomes everybody of any Faith.

Oeste said:
Post the scripture you think authentic Jerry Myers.

Let's be realistic here. There are about 5,900+ verses in the NT alone and you expect me to go through all the verses in the scripture and tell you which one I think is authentic and which one is not???!! Are you on drugs??

Even Jesus' disciples did not ask Jesus to give all the names of those who will come after him claiming to be the Christ when Jesus forewarned them to be wary of anyone who will come after he's gone, claiming to be him! The red flag here is the individuals who claim he is the Christ!!
Likewise, I am telling the readers any passage that CONTRADICTS what God Almighty already DECLARED OF HIMSELF, and of what Jesus already said of himself IS the red flag when reading the scripture!

On the other hand, I only asked you one verse/passage in the scripture - did Jesus preach the trinity in his lifetime on earth?? Post your answer, Oeste. If there is none, just say so instead of deflecting the question and giving us the 'run-around' nonsense!!

Oeste said:
See my answer above.

What answer above??!

Oeste said:
The Bahaullah? I really don't have the time.

Of course, you have the time!!
With this, that would be how many times you already have mentioned “Bahaullah”???

The nation of Israel first had prophets, then the people wanted a king. Kings can be like gods to the people.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

oh i know what is its that new math 1+1=3

New math or still Satan's old math
Eat one bite Eve and one bite will not harm you; turned out 1+1 = 0, 0 instead of 1

 

[JerryMyers]

The nation of Israel first had prophets, then the people wanted a king. Kings can be like gods to the people.

That's correct.
The notion that kings are called gods reflects a historical intertwining of politics and religion, where rulers/kings were seen as divinely sanctioned.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's correct.
The notion that kings are called gods reflects a historical intertwining of politics and religion, where rulers/kings were seen as divinely sanctioned.

Yes. And in the nation of Israel, there were prophets or seers that would come to a king, sometimes at his own risk. Jeremiah, for instance, was thrown in a cistern with the permission of the king Zedekiah. (Jeremiah 38)

 

[Oeste]

Oeste said:
The minority of Christians who believe Jesus is not God does not verify Jesus is not God, it simply means a minority of Christians accept the belief Jesus is not God.

Congrats! You finally figured out the concept of ‘the majority and the minority’ of the Christian population!

Congratulations to you JerryMyers! I see you have finally reached an epiphany, and understand why I am under no compulsion to convince non-Christians that Jesus is God than you are to convince flat earther’s that the earth is round.

The fact is, the vast majority already know the earth is round, just as the vast majority of Christians believe Jesus is God. I am simply stating this as a fact, and not a challenge. It's only a challenge if you do not accept it as fact.

Here, I'll tell you what: Convince the flat earthers the world is round and not flat and maybe then I'll feel encouraged enough to convince those that believe Jesus is not God why he is God.

There will ALWAYS be those who are convinced the earth is flat, and there will ALWAYS be those who are convinced Jesus is not God despite the MAJORITY of people who KNOW differently. This will be true until Jesus comes and we experience our transformation.

Since the vast majority already KNOW quite differently from what you know, I think we've done a pretty good job. If you wish to convince this vast majority to think differently, you have a lot of work to do. But I can assure you, if you think you can start this process with me you really, truly, and literally have the wrong guy.

So, don’t give me that ‘2 billion and counting’ BS again!!

Yes, it's one of those "inconvenient truths", but the Christian church is not shrinking, but growing and the vast majority believe Jesus is God. It will continue to grow until the full measure of gentiles are brought in.

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.” Romans 11:25​

​

Oeste said:
That is not "the logic of my understanding".

Your ‘2 billion and counting’ response tells us THAT IS the logic of your understanding!!

Yes, it is based on facts, logic and scripture whereas your logic is base on a presupposition.

Oeste said:
My understanding is not based on non-believers, it is base on scripture.

Really???! Then you should not have any problem in answering me - based on the scripture, – did Jesus preach the trinity in his lifetime on earth??

Any answer I give will be based on scripture which you have already told us is a lie based on a presupposition.

Oeste said:
JESUS IS GOD for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical cannon as true.

You should crawl out from your shell once in a while and travel the world. If you have done that, then you will realize the world population is NOT made up of Christians only!

Did I ever claim the world was? Perhaps you can show me the quote rather than create another strawman.

So your continuous ranting of ‘JESUS IS GOD' for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical canon as true’, does NOT apply on the world stage!!

"Jesus IS God" applies wherever we go. Whether it applies to an individual is up to them.

Are you here to convince ONLY the Christians or what???

Please read the forum rules. Proselytizing is strictly against forum rules and I'm not here to convince anyone.

Oeste said:
You, on the other hand, hold some part true and some parts false. Which is which is held only in the mind of Jerry Myers, making further discussion regarding scripture pointless.

Yeah, I can understand that, especially when you cannot reasonably support anything you claimed!

When the other party does not engage in reason? No.

Oeste said:
???
This is the biblical debates forum, not the non-Trinitarian forum. If the OP did not want trinitarians to post here, they would have selected another forum.

???
When did I say this is the non-Trinitarian and not the Biblical debates forum??

When you asked why I was posting here.

I asked you “... since you said this thread was never about the trinity then, what are you doing in this thread??”

And I informed you, so let's try it again: This thread is not about the trinity. It's a statement that Jesus is not God. The trinity does not teach Jesus is not God, it teaches Jesus is God.

You, on the other hand, keep asking me about the trinity.

And I keep telling you I would be happy to discuss the trinity, but the FULL SCRIPTURAL CANNON must be available. But you cannot even discuss Hebrews 1:8 as scriptural, so any further discussion with you is pointless.

So let's try this again, what are doing in this thread??

This is BIBLICAL DEBATES JerryMyers and we are discussing biblical verses. The topic is "Jesus is not God", a declaration no bible verse makes.
Instead of showing us where the bible says "Jesus is not God", you divert the reader and ask "Where did Jesus preached the trinity?", when you haven't even shown us where the bible preaches "Jesus is not God".

Think of me as your friendly, neighborhood poster, holding feet to the fire until someone shows us where the bible says "Jesus is not God".

You looked promising, but then you claimed our bible has been a mixture of truth and lies since Jeremiah, and the only "proof" you have is a statement that the pens of some scribes lied.

Are you here trying to convince that Jesus is God only to the Christians, especially the non-Trinitarian Christians???

Not at all. God is God, and He has been God long before mankind arrived.

I thought you were here to convince the non-Christians too as I understand the Forum Board welcomes everybody of any Faith.

I am not here to proselytize to non-believers. That is against forum rules.

I am here to discuss whether the statement "Jesus is NOT God" has biblical merit. I have yet to much of an argument. Instead we see an attack on the bible itself.

Oeste said:
Post the scripture you think authentic Jerry Myers.

Let's be realistic here. There are about 5,900+ verses in the NT alone and you expect me to go through all the verses in the scripture and tell you which one I think is authentic and which one is not???!! Are you on drugs??

As explained previously, you have your work cut out for you.

You came on the Biblical Debates forum arguing our scripture was a mixture of truth and lies, and now you tell us you haven't done your homework.

On the other hand, I only asked you one verse/passage in the scripture - did Jesus preach the trinity in his lifetime on earth??

I gave you one verse and I've posted several.

Post your answer, Oeste. If there is none, just say so instead of deflecting the question and giving us the 'run-around' nonsense!!

I have plenty more, but I see no point in discussing it with a nonbeliever who claims our cannon from the time of Jeremiah is a mixture of truth and lies, especially from one who admits they've not done their homework.

Oeste said:
The Bahaullah? I really don't have the time.

Of course, you have the time!!
With this, that would be how many times you already have mentioned “Bahaullah”???

Several times too many.

Oeste said:
You, on the other hand, hold some part true and some parts false. Which is which is held only in the mind of Jerry Myers, making further discussion regarding scripture pointless.

Yeah, I can understand that, especially when you cannot reasonably support anything you claimed!

It's very well supported by scripture you claim are a mixture of truth and lies.

First of all, God Almighty NEVER declared Jesus is God – THAT is your misinterpretation of Hebrews 1:8.

Of course He does. Right there at Hebrews 1:8 for instance.

We all know, except you, Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6-7 in which there’s NO such phrase as “But about the Son he says …..” was mentioned!

You are too funny JerryMyers!

We all know Hebrews 1:8 itself is scripture. The NT REVEALS what is hidden in the OLD. I've discussed this with you before. Here we see how Psalm 45:6-7 is revealed to the New Testament reader.

But you claim not to see it at all, thus revealing the truth of Mat 11:25-30 to our dear readers.

 

[YoursTrue]

Congratulations to you JerryMyers! I see you have finally reached an epiphany, and understand why I am under no compulsion to convince non-Christians that Jesus is God than you are to convince flat earther’s that the earth is round.

The fact is, the vast majority already know the earth is round, just as the vast majority of Christians believe Jesus is God. I am simply stating this as a fact, and not a challenge. It's only a challenge if you do not accept it as fact.

Here, I'll tell you what: Convince the flat earthers the world is round and not flat and maybe then I'll feel encouraged enough to convince those that believe Jesus is not God why he is God.

There will ALWAYS be those who are convinced the earth is flat, and there will ALWAYS be those who are convinced Jesus is not God despite the MAJORITY of people who KNOW differently. This will be true until Jesus comes and we experience our transformation.

Since the vast majority already KNOW quite differently from what you know, I think we've done a pretty good job. If you wish to convince this vast majority to think differently, you have a lot of work to do. But I can assure you, if you think you can start this process with me you really, truly, and literally have the wrong guy.



Yes, it's one of those "inconvenient truths", but the Christian church is not shrinking, but growing and the vast majority believe Jesus is God. It will continue to grow until the full measure of gentiles are brought in.

“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.” Romans 11:25​

​

Yes, it is based on facts, logic and scripture whereas your logic is base on a presupposition.



Any answer I give will be based on scripture which you have already told us is a lie based on a presupposition.


Did I ever claim the world was? Perhaps you can show me the quote rather than create another strawman.



"Jesus IS God" applies wherever we go. Whether it applies to an individual is up to them.



Please read the forum rules. Proselytizing is strictly against forum rules and I'm not here to convince anyone.



When the other party does not engage in reason? No.



When you asked why I was posting here.



And I informed you, so let's try it again: This thread is not about the trinity. It's a statement that Jesus is not God. The trinity does not teach Jesus is not God, it teaches Jesus is God.

You, on the other hand, keep asking me about the trinity.

And I keep telling you I would be happy to discuss the trinity, but the FULL SCRIPTURAL CANNON must be available. But you cannot even discuss Hebrews 1:8 as scriptural, so any further discussion with you is pointless.




This is BIBLICAL DEBATES JerryMyers and we are discussing biblical verses. The topic is "Jesus is not God", a declaration no bible verse makes.
Instead of showing us where the bible says "Jesus is not God", you divert the reader and ask "Where did Jesus preached the trinity?", when you haven't even shown us where the bible preaches "Jesus is not God".

Think of me as your friendly, neighborhood poster, holding feet to the fire until someone shows us where the bible says "Jesus is not God".

You looked promising, but then you claimed our bible has been a mixture of truth and lies since Jeremiah, and the only "proof" you have is a statement that the pens of some scribes lied.



Not at all. God is God, and He has been God long before mankind arrived.



I am not here to proselytize to non-believers. That is against forum rules.

I am here to discuss whether the statement "Jesus is NOT God" has biblical merit. I have yet to much of an argument. Instead we see an attack on the bible itself.



As explained previously, you have your work cut out for you.

You came on the Biblical Debates forum arguing our scripture was a mixture of truth and lies, and now you tell us you haven't done your homework.



I gave you one verse and I've posted several.



I have plenty more, but I see no point in discussing it with a nonbeliever who claims our cannon from the time of Jeremiah is a mixture of truth and lies, especially from one who admits they've not done their homework.


Several times too many.


It's very well supported by scripture you claim are a mixture of truth and lies.



Of course He does. Right there at Hebrews 1:8 for instance.


You are too funny JerryMyers!

We all know Hebrews 1:8 itself is scripture. The NT REVEALS what is hidden in the OLD. I've discussed this with you before. Here we see how Psalm 45:6-7 is revealed to the New Testament reader.

But you claim not to see it at all, thus revealing the truth of Mat 11:25-30 to our dear readers.

Ok so now at this point I'd like to know how you figure some calling themselves Christian here and elsewhere, I am sure, believe that Jesus mistakenly believed in the biblical account of Noah and the flood because they say it was a myth. How do you feel about the matter?

 

[Oeste]

Likewise, In Mark 12:29, Jesus quoted Deuteronomy 6:4 where Moses declared, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE”.
Did Jesus add anything to Moses’ words?? He did not.

Yes, for instance, he did not say The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE Lord, and I am another, did he? So let's read a few verses again:

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord. (Mark 12:29)​

​

Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord (Deu 6:4)​

​

For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (Jude 1:4)​

It's all there @JerryMyers. Christians have only one spiritual Lord, though there may be several worldly Lords running around. Christ was NEVER a worldly Lord. But discussing scripture with you is pointless as you make clear you will simply deny any scripture that runs afoul of your personal bias and presupposition.

 

[Oeste]

Ok so now at this point I'd like to know how you figure some calling themselves Christian here and elsewhere, I am sure, believe that Jesus mistakenly believed in the biblical account of Noah and the flood because they say it was a myth. How do you feel about the matter?

A bit off topic, but I can understand why it's asked.

There will always be skeptics who assail the biblical account, much like what we've seen here. We can believe this scripture, but not that scripture. This is okay, but not that one. This one here says what it means but that one there doesn't mean what it says.

I don't count myself among them.

 

[Dimi95]

Ok so now at this point I'd like to know how you figure some calling themselves Christian here and elsewhere, I am sure, believe that Jesus mistakenly believed in the biblical account of Noah and the flood because they say it was a myth. How do you feel about the matter?

Noah is mentioned in the Gospel of Matthew in this context:

Matthew 24
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left."

At the bottom of every translation there are footnotes

In fact it was missing from most manuscripts. The reason these words are kept in most translations is because they are found in the best texts and because it is easier to explain why they were left out than why they might be added. It is generally believed they were left out because some people had a problem with the idea that Jesus did not know everything.And that's ok , they had limited knowledge of History.

But in this verses , the word Son is the same as in:
-Matthew 1:20(Son of David)
-Matthew 3:17
-Matthew 4:3,4:6
......

So it referes to a human being.

 

[Dimi95]

I don't count myself among them.

You know that there was no Global Flood , but rather local,right?

You know that The Torah and The New Testament are two different pieces of History , right?
You are able to demonstrate the New Testament to be reliable only because History makes it such.

Otherwise , it would be just a matter of belief.

The accounts of Genesis are not in any sense similar to the New Testament,historically speaking.

 

[YoursTrue]

A bit off topic, but I can understand why it's asked.

There will always be skeptics who assail the biblical account, much like what we've seen here. We can believe this scripture, but not that scripture. This is okay, but not that one. This one here says what it means but that one there doesn't mean what it says.

I don't count myself among them.

Right, but it doesn't end there, because -- such ones are really not skeptics imo, but rather hypocrites, claiming to believe somehow in Jesus but then going along with -- the theory of evolution -- as well as claiming the account of Noah, and Moses are mythical, yet then bowing to statues or crossing their chests in the sign of a cross. And, of course, it doesn't end there.

 

[Oeste]

You know that there was no Global Flood , but rather local,right?

You know that The Torah and The New Testament are two different pieces of History , right?
You are able to demonstrate the New Testament to be reliable only because History makes it such.

Otherwise , it would be just a matter of belief.

The accounts of Genesis are not in any sense similar to the New Testament,historically speaking.

Right, but it doesn't end there, because -- such ones are really not skeptics imo, but rather hypocrites, claiming to believe somehow in Jesus but then going along with -- the theory of evolution -- as well as claiming the account of Noah, and Moses are mythical, yet then bowing to statues or crossing their chests in the sign of a cross. And, of course, it doesn't end there.

Hi @Dimi95, @YoursTrue,

I think these questions and topics are important and worth discussing, but I think it would certainly derail what has been an interesting and enjoyable thread.

If either of you would like to start a new thread on these topics I will do my best to find some time to participate in them. I have a new project I am working on which I must complete if I am to be paid next month, and as you know, bills have this unseemly habit of adding up whether you are paid or not. However, I've always been attracted to these forums and hope to participate on a much regular basis once I am in a position to retire.

As it is, this thread takes up a bit too much of my time, but I will try.

 

[JerryMyers]

Oeste said:
Congratulations to you JerryMyers! I see you have finally reached an epiphany, and understand why I am under no compulsion to convince non-Christians that Jesus is God than you are to convince flat earther’s that the earth is round.
The fact is, the vast majority already know the earth is round, just as the vast majority of Christians believe Jesus is God. I am simply stating this as a fact, and not a challenge. It's only a challenge if you do not accept it as fact.
Here, I'll tell you what: Convince the flat earthers the world is round and not flat and maybe then I'll feel encouraged enough to convince those that believe Jesus is not God why he is God.
There will ALWAYS be those who are convinced the earth is flat, and there will ALWAYS be those who are convinced Jesus is not God despite the MAJORITY of people who KNOW differently. This will be true until Jesus comes and we experience our transformation.

Flat earth, round earth??? Now where did that come from?? What's that got to do with the discussion here??? ‘Spitting’ nonsense again… as usual.

Oeste said:
Since the vast majority already KNOW quite differently from what you know, I think we've done a pretty good job. If you wish to convince this vast majority to think differently, you have a lot of work to do.

The vast majority of what??? The Christians????!
I think you’re doing an awful job trying to convince the readers Jesus is God!!! LOL!

Oeste said:
But I can assure you, if you think you can start this process with me you really, truly, and literally have the wrong guy.

You are right, but it’s not only I who have the wrong guy, I think the Trinitarians too have the wrong guy to talk about ‘Jesus is God’ on their behalf!!

Oeste said:
Yes, it's one of those "inconvenient truths", but the Christian church is not shrinking, but growing and the vast majority believe Jesus is God. It will continue to grow until the full measure of gentiles are brought in.

Right, for “… wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” - that's the inconvenient truth for the Trinitarians.

I would rather be with the 'shrinking few’ rather than with the 'growing majority’.

Oeste said:
Yes, it is based on facts, logic and scripture whereas your logic is base on a presupposition.
Any answer I give will be based on scripture which you have already told us is a lie based on a presupposition.

LOL! Your ‘understanding’ is based on NONSENSE, NOT on facts, logic, or scriptural, and that’s why you cannot show from the scripture that Jesus preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth! Can you???

Oeste said:
Did I ever claim the world was? Perhaps you can show me the quote rather than create another strawman.

You don’t have to say it, but your words “JESUS IS GOD for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical canon as true.” tell us you think the world population is made up of Christians only.
Likewise, Jesus did not have to say he’s NOT God, but his words and actions tell us he’s NOT God.

Oeste said:
"Jesus IS God" applies wherever we go. Whether it applies to an individual is up to them.

Sure, ONLY if you are a Trinitarian.

Oeste said:
Please read the forum rules. Proselytizing is strictly against forum rules and I'm not here to convince anyone.
I am not here to proselytize to non-believers. That is against forum rules.

Of course, I read the forum rules.

Proselytizing refers specifically to the act of trying to convert someone from his/her faith to another, and it involves actively promoting one’s faith to others. I am not promoting any faith and I am certainly NOT trying to convert you!
I am highlighting to you the Words of God Almighty and the words of Jesus in the scripture why Jesus is NOT God, while you are highlighting the words of those characters, other than the Words of God Almighty and/or the words of His prophet Jesus, why Jesus is God.

Do you take the words of those characters in the Bible as always true just because those words/writings are simply in the NT/scripture?? If you do, then really you do not understand the Bible.

Oeste said:
When the other party does not engage in reason? No.

That’s what I am trying to tell you – try to engage in reason, and not give us the ‘run-around’ nonsense, OK??

Oeste said:
And I informed you, so let's try it again: This thread is not about the trinity. It's a statement that Jesus is not God. The trinity does not teach Jesus is not God, it teaches Jesus is God.
You, on the other hand, keep asking me about the trinity.

Yes, this thread may NOT be about the trinity, but you are making this thread all about the trinity because you are in this thread trying your best to tell us Jesus is God, and the trinity can only stand IF, and a big ‘IF’, Jesus is God. So, if you want to keep this thread NOT about the trinity, then stop that ranting ‘Jesus is God’ nonsense!

Oeste said:
But you cannot even discuss Hebrews 1:8 as scriptural, so any further discussion with you is pointless.

You are right, any further discussion with you is pointless as you cannot even show us that the phrase “But about the Son he says …..” is in Psalm 45. In case you do not know, Hebrews 1:8 is quoting Psalm 45, NOT Psalm 45 quoting Hebrews 1:8.

No wonder Jesus said, “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandment of men”.
The doctrine of trinity/Jesus is God is one of the doctrines commandment of men.

Oeste said:
This is BIBLICAL DEBATES JerryMyers and we are discussing biblical verses. The topic is "Jesus is not God", a declaration no bible verse makes.
Instead of showing us where the bible says "Jesus is not God", you divert the reader and ask "Where did Jesus preached the trinity?", when you haven't even shown us where the bible preaches "Jesus is not God".
Think of me as your friendly, neighborhood poster, holding feet to the fire until someone shows us where the bible says "Jesus is not God".
Instead of showing us where the bible says "Jesus is not God", you divert the reader and ask "Where did Jesus preached the trinity?", when you haven't even shown us where the bible preaches "Jesus is not God".

Well, think of me as your friendly, neighborhood poster, holding feet to the fire until someone shows us where the bible says "Jesus is God".

Yes, the topic is “Jesus is not God”, and NOT “Jesus is God”! So, what are you doing in this thread again??

Oeste said:
You looked promising, but then you claimed our bible has been a mixture of truth and lies since Jeremiah, and the only "proof" you have is a statement that the pens of some scribes lied.

…And the only “proof” you have ‘Jesus is God’ is Hebrews 1:8??! LOL! You don’t look promising at all!!

Oeste said:
Not at all. God is God, and He has been God long before mankind arrived.

Of course, God is God and He does NOT change!
He’s NOT 'full man and full God'! BTW, is that nonsense in the scripture??

Oeste said:
I am here to discuss whether the statement "Jesus is NOT God" has biblical merit. I have yet to much of an argument. Instead we see an attack on the bible itself.

Right, how can one have ‘much of an argument’ with you when all you do is ‘spitting’ nonsense??
Which comments of mine that you see as an attack on the bible???

Oeste said:
As explained previously, you have your work cut out for you.
You came on the Biblical Debates forum arguing our scripture was a mixture of truth and lies, and now you tell us you haven't done your homework.

Expecting me, or anyone for that matter, to go through thousands of verses just to tell you which one is suspected and which is not, only exhibit your desperation and inability to think logically and rationally.

And speaking of ‘homework’, I am still waiting for the ‘homework’ I gave you to prove me wrong (and you don’t have to go through thousands of verses) that:

In the scripture, God Almighty never said nor implied a ‘3-in-one’ God.
In the scripture, Jesus never said nor implied he’s God or part of a ‘3-in-1’ God.
In the scripture, Jesus never preached the trinity to his disciples.

So, instead of giving us the ‘run-around’ nonsense, just prove me wrong on the above. Can you???

Oeste said:
I gave you one verse and I've posted several.

What one verse proved Jesus preached trinity in his lifetime??? Stop these ‘I gave you one verse’, ‘I have posted several’ run-around nonsense! Just post that ‘one verse’ here, that is, if you have it!!

Oeste said:
I have plenty more, but I see no point in discussing it with a nonbeliever who claims our cannon from the time of Jeremiah is a mixture of truth and lies, especially from one who admits they've not done their homework.

I know you have plenty of lame excuses like ‘I gave you one verse’, ‘I have posted several’, ‘I have plenty more’, ‘all there in the scripture’… which we heard so often from you.

Don’t you think it’s about time you give real evidence from the scripture to your belief Jesus is God??

Oeste said:
It's very well supported by scripture you claim are a mixture of truth and lies.

Do you mean well supported by others, that is, other than God Almighty and His prophet Jesus??

Oeste said:
Of course He does. Right there at Hebrews 1:8 for instance.

You mean your misinterpretation of Hebrews 1:8?? LOL!

Oeste said:
We all know Hebrews 1:8 itself is scripture. The NT REVEALS what is hidden in the OLD. I've discussed this with you before. Here we see how Psalm 45:6-7 is revealed to the New Testament reader.
But you claim not to see it at all, thus revealing the truth of Mat 11:25-30 to our dear readers.

Matthew 11:25-30 only proved Jesus is NOT God. In that passage, Jesus clearly distinguished himself from God as two very different beings – one, a Supreme Being who is the Lord of heaven and earth, and the other a human being whose knowledge is only known to him by what was revealed to him by the One and Only God Almighty.

The only reason you think the NT reveals what is hidden in the OT is because you follow the doctrines commandment of men, thus revealing the truth of Matthew 15:9 to our dear readers.

 

[JerryMyers]

Oeste said:
Yes, for instance, he did not say The Lord our God, the Lord is ONE Lord, and I am another, did he? So let's read a few verses again:
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord. (Mark 12:29)
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord (Deu 6:4)

Why are you telling me this again?? All the above verses you quoted tell us Jesus is NOT God.

Oeste said:
For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (Jude 1:4)
It's all there @JerryMyers. Christians have only one spiritual Lord, though there may be several worldly Lords running around. Christ was NEVER a worldly Lord. But discussing scripture with you is pointless as you make clear you will simply deny any scripture that runs afoul of your personal bias and presupposition.

Yeah, we heard that many times – ‘It’s all there…’ from you.
Quoting verses from the NT means nothing if you can’t show in the scripture that God Almighty said or implied Jesus is God, Jesus said or implied he’s God, that Jesus preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth… now if you have done that, you would have a very strong case.
Now you only have the words of other people instead Words of God Almighty and the words of His prophet Jesus! Whose words matter most to you anyway??

 

[Oeste]

The vast majority of what??? The Christians????!
I think you’re doing an awful job trying to convince the readers Jesus is God!!! LOL!

Lol, "convincing" readers is not part of my job or the job of anyone else here.

Now go ahead... let's see if you can convince us it is.

Oeste said:
But I can assure you, if you think you can start this process with me you really, truly, and literally have the wrong guy.

You are right, but it’s not only I who have the wrong guy, I think the Trinitarians too have the wrong guy to talk about ‘Jesus is God’ on their behalf!!

What strange notions you have!

First, I haven't heard from other Trinitarians who think the same as you, so I can live and sleep at night with that. Second, I have no idea why they would want me to speak on their behalf when they can freely speak for themselves. Third, if they cannot speak for themselves, they are still free to assign someone who can.

Oeste said:
Yes, it's one of those "inconvenient truths", but the Christian church is not shrinking, but growing and the vast majority believe Jesus is God. It will continue to grow until the full measure of gentiles are brought in.

Right, for “… wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” - that's the inconvenient truth for the Trinitarians.

Incorrect.

It's biblical truth for everyone, not just Trinitarians.

Oeste said:
But you cannot even discuss Hebrews 1:8 as scriptural, so any further discussion with you is pointless.

You are right, any further discussion with you is pointless as you cannot even show us that the phrase “But about the Son he says …..” is in Psalm 45. In case you do not know, Hebrews 1:8 is quoting Psalm 45, NOT Psalm 45 quoting Hebrews 1:8.

Already answered: Hebrews 1:8 IS scripture itself and reveals Psalm 45.

I would rather be with the 'shrinking few’ rather than with the 'growing majority’.

I am not sure where you live, but if you live in the US, you can align yourself with whomever you want and with any "shrinking few" you desire.

LOL! Your ‘understanding’ is based on NONSENSE, NOT on facts, logic, or scriptural, and that’s why you cannot show from the scripture that Jesus preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth! Can you???

Of course I can.

You don’t have to say it, but your words “JESUS IS GOD for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical canon as true.” tell us you think the world population is made up of Christians only.

Honestly JerryMyers, I have no idea how my statement leads you to come to such a wayward conclusion. "Jesus is God for the vast majority of Christians who hold the biblical canon as true" is a truthful statement.

There is nothing there to imply the world is made up only of Christians. That would be eisegesis. It's a non-existent something you've pushed into my statement, but not something a reasonable person would ever extract from it.

…And the only “proof” you have ‘Jesus is God’ is Hebrews 1:8??! LOL!

Not at all, but as previously stated, they are all scriptural, and I don't see what's laughable about Hebrews 1:8 clearly indicating the Father stating Jesus is God.

You have yet to source where we can find those scriptures you believe are truth, and which are lies. Instead, you tell us there are too many verses in our bible, so we'll have to divulge our scriptures first so you can roll it around in your head and decide whether the verse is a lie or not.

This sounds too much like a game of poker where the opposing player not only gets to see your cards prior to placing a bet, but also gets to tell you which cards you can keep and which must be discarded.

I'm honored you've invited me to play, and the ability to bring my own deck of cards (bible) to the table is truly comforting, but I think I'll take a pass.