Jordan Peterson and Bill Maher...

[icehorse]

I think I need some more fodder for this part of your post. Thanks!

Well trans-activists would like us to believe claims like:

- some men have vaginas
- some women have penises

And so forth. These are examples of dangerous post-truth, post-modern utterances.

 

[Kenny]

I never treaded on the teen's or parent's rights, so I just "go with the flow". If someone want to identify as Godzilla, I'll not say anything against that. Why would I? Why should I?

But I, and every teacher I knew personally, did teach basic humanistic morality, which largely parallels what many of us call "Judeo-Cristian morality", however that being not exclusive to either of them but which parallels almost all religions plus humanism.

Sometimes I see more immorality coming from supposedly "religious" people. Take a look at all those in the "religious right" that endorse some politicians who are as corrupt as the day is long for example. And those of them who tell us that the basic ToE is evil and tell their congregation that. or who criticize a teen's self-identity? or to condemn other religions/denominations as the fundamentalist pastor in the fundamentalist church I grew up in constantly did? Seems to me that they tend to more judgmental and disrespectful than probably most atheists and agnostics. One can see this playing out here daily at RF.

I think we are missing the point here.

Let me ask a question... do people who deal with gender dysphoria have a root cause of some sort of trauma?

 

[Father Heathen]

Well trans-activists would like us to believe claims like:

- some men have vaginas
- some women have penises

And so forth. These are examples of dangerous post-truth, post-modern utterances.

If a man lost his genitals to cancer, does he cease being a man?

 

[Kenny]

t it's true; people's personal beliefs shouldn't prevent them from performing professionally.

EXACTLY! And personal beliefs shouldn't be pushed as they perform professionally.

 

[icehorse]

Well, I don't know as I can't really say without seeing them how closely the resemble your claim.

Search engines are your friend, but I'll get you started:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/06/03/schools-gender-identity-transgender-lessons/

 

[icehorse]

If a man lost his genitals to cancer, does he cease being a man?

wait what? are you starting a new topic?

 

[Secret Chief]

As I understand it, the normal approach for these interventions is to start with puberty blockers and then move on to hormones. Where do you stand on the safety of puberty blockers?

"While few studies have examined the effects of puberty blockers for gender non-conforming and transgender adolescents, the studies that have been conducted generally indicate that these treatments are reasonably safe, are reversible, and can improve psychological well-being in these individuals."

"Efforts to ban puberty blockers are opposed by the American Medical Association,[6] the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP), the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association, the Endocrine Society, the Pediatric Endocrine Society, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Psychological Association,, the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Osteopathic Association, the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, the American Nurses Association, the United States Professional Association for Transgender Health, the British Medical Association, and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH). In Australia, the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners, the Australian Endocrine Society, and AusPATH also all support access."

both:
- Puberty blocker - Wikipedia

 

[Father Heathen]

wait what? are you starting a new topic?

No, are you?

You said it's "dangerous" to suggest that some men don't have penises.

 

[Father Heathen]

EXACTLY! And personal beliefs shouldn't be pushed as they perform professionally.

How is expecting teachers to perform professionally pushing a personal belief? Don't create a sanctimonious scene. Just do your damn job. That's not an unreasonable expectation.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think we are missing the point here.

Let me ask a question... do people who deal with gender dysphoria have a root cause of some sort of trauma?

That's rather presumptuous, but if you think you have a "gotcha", go google it up yourself.

 

[SomeRandom]

Well trans-activists would like us to believe claims like:

- some men have vaginas
- some women have penises

And so forth. These are examples of dangerous post-truth, post-modern utterances.

That’s been a thing since before “trans activism” actually.

Cancer comes to mind immediately and interestingly enough injuries that were ahem acquired during war. (In this instance, the Iraq war.)
I recall when I was in school there was something of an “awareness campaign” which sought to get us to have compassion towards people who were injured during said war. One of the topics that came up (not sure if this was actually planned or just arose due to teens asking probing questions) was that of people who err “lost their equipment” due to such injuries, if you catch my drift?
The idea behind this and other known instances of “lost equipment” was to foster the idea that genitalia isn’t actually the be all or end all of one’s identifying sex. That there are instances where this can get “murky.”

At this point in time, I don’t recall society (at least not in Australia) being overly concerned with or even acknowledging the trans community to any degree.
Though I will note that my biology class did very much stress the idea of sex and gender being different concepts. And that biological sex was far more complicated than mere chromosomes and/or genitalia alone (referring to known biological outcomes that differed from 100% male/female.)
And I went to high school in the early 2000s!

 

[icehorse]

No, are you?

You said it's "dangerous" to suggest that some men don't have penises.

i don't think i said that...

 

[icehorse]

"While few studies have examined the effects of puberty blockers for gender non-conforming and transgender adolescents, the studies that have been conducted generally indicate that these treatments are reasonably safe, are reversible, and can improve psychological well-being in these individuals."

"Efforts to ban puberty blockers are opposed by the American Medical Association,[6] the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP), the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association, the Endocrine Society, the Pediatric Endocrine Society, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Psychological Association,, the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Osteopathic Association, the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists, the American Nurses Association, the United States Professional Association for Transgender Health, the British Medical Association, and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH). In Australia, the Royal Australasian College of Physicians, the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners, the Australian Endocrine Society, and AusPATH also all support access."

both:
- Puberty blocker - Wikipedia

A two part answer:

First, WPATH, AAP, and the Endocrine society drive the rest of those organizations as I explained earlier. Doctors CANNOT specialize across the board and the strong tendency is to support other doctors. And the 3 organizations I listed all have a vested interest in these extreme, and extremely profitable interventions.

Tell me why you think this is different than the oxy situation?

==

As for the safety of puberty blockers and/or hormones:

Revisiting the effect of GnRH analogue treatment on bone mineral density in young adolescents with gender dysphoria

An Examination of the Effects of Leuprolide Acetate Used in the Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty on Bone Mineral Density and 25-Hydroxy Vitamin D

Osteoporosis and Bone Health in Transgender Persons

Occurrence of Slipped Capital Femoral Epiphysis in Children Undergoing Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone Agonist Therapy for the Treatment of Central Precocious Puberty

https://t.co/oGZSCqZWMy

I can go on...

 

[Kenny]

How is expecting teachers to perform professionally pushing a personal belief? Don't create a sanctimonious scene. Just do your damn job. That's not an unreasonable expectation.

Another irrelevant statement.... is it because I hit a nerve?

 

[Kenny]

That's rather presumptuous, but if you think you have a "gotcha", go google it up yourself.

Another irrelevant statement. Opinion - reading into -- argumentative.

 

[icehorse]

That’s been a thing since before “trans activism” actually.

How is an injury or a disease like cancer similar to the claim that some women have penises? I'm really struggling to connect the dots here?

 

[icehorse]

Though I will note that my biology class did very much stress the idea of sex and gender being different concepts.

Do you still agree with the idea that sex and gender are different concepts? (I do!)

 

[SomeRandom]

Do you still agree with the idea that sex and gender are different concepts? (I do!)

Yeah
One is biological and one refers to the social aspects associated with the presentation of feminine and masculine (which differs by culture.)
It was a big topic of discussion in my social studies class

 

[icehorse]

Yeah
One is biological and one refers to the social aspects associated with the presentation of feminine and masculine (which differs by culture.)
It was a big topic of discussion in my social studies class

So we have a point of agreement. Now there are trans-activists who take issue with that stance, calling it transphobic. Because they would like us all to accept the claim that a transwoman is a woman. To me, this is a biological claim, and it's false.

And we've seen in recent weeks endless debates on this forum concerning how we define "woman".

 

[SomeRandom]

How is an injury or a disease like cancer similar to the claim that some women have penises? I'm really struggling to connect the dots here?

It’s not so much a 1 to 1 connection.
Moreso an overall reflection that genitalia is not always the best identifying feature of one’s sex.
Such features can be lost due various factors, one can be born with both and have one surgically removed (typically at the request of the parent/s) at birth
One could be in the middle of a trans surgery and waiting in line, so to speak.
There are all sorts of instances where simply saying a woman has a penis could be potentially accurate.

In everyday speech I can see it being rather exhausting to always being aware of such instances that are perhaps not very frequent. But English is an intense language and we tend to be very specific