Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No.
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Jordan Peterson and Bill Maher...
- Thread starter Kenny
- Start date
Not all of us. Mine has nothing to do with any trauma I've gone through. I've literally just always perceived myself as male.
I read the book. It's really good.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's what we've been talking about, along with how you so clearly and obviously just have no idea what you're talking about. You're like a Creationist trying to speak of biology and evolution and using what they think are clever checkmates like the irreducibility complex.
And you come with your "concerns," which again are very obviously biased and not reflecting the larger body of peer reviewed data amd come up with the absolute brilliant point of pointing out trans clinics have agendas. Everyone does. Your conspiracy nonsense, however, isn't it. You sound like a Conservative deriding PP believing abortion is something they push on people.
Trauma as in a traumatic event that affects your identity - emotional and/or physical trauma... not trying to push an agenda, but if there is an emotional and/or physical trauma that has caused gender dysphoria -- this is what I see happening. Rather than treating the issue, we just affirm them in their gender dysphoria which means they will automatically have psychological issues such as depression, fear and suicide.
We end up affirming them that "this is normal" and never hit the root of the issue, their emotional well-being.
I'm sure that there are those who haven't. But what are we doing to pinpoint those who have to help them?
Hmm I did try looking into the claim that European countries are reevaluating trans health care in minors.
Many articles I could find on the matter are pretty politicised, so I had to do a bit more fact checking than I had hoped lol
The closest I could find was that many European countries were being more cautious in prescribing hormone therapy to minors. But that was largely due to how strict they were about such measures in the first place and that demand had increased more than expected. It seemed to have more to do with how their respective healthcare systems just need more resources to address and study the phenomenon. (Universal health care systems are tax funded, after all. So resources are distributed a little bit unevenly sometimes. And since the trans community is a minority. The resources may reflect that to an extent. If that makes sense?)
But claims they were banning or holding off on the drugs were largely false or misleading according to what I could find.
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I would imagine that having to undergo extensive evaluation under mental health professionals (a mandatory prerequisite in many countries to even qualify for puberty blockers in the first place) such pin pointing would occur by default. If in fact there were such instances
But correlation does not equal causation.
Two things occurring at the same time does not necessarily indicate that one caused the other
Probably not much, depending on what doctor you're seeing. Many of them don't even require a letter from a mental health professional to start hormones now, instead using an informed consent model which is really lacking. (You still need letters to have surgery, as far as I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of those surgeons are being loose with the standards, too.) So it really depends.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
That's just speculation though. Let's stick with the facts instead of this armchair psychologist stuff. You're not qualified.
There is enough evidence and studies that supports the position in the diagnosis of identity dysphoria.I would imagine that having to undergo extensive evaluation under mental health professionals (a mandatory prerequisite in many countries to even qualify for puberty blockers in the first place) such pin pointing would occur by default. If in fact there were such instances
But correlation does not equal causation.
Two things occurring at the same time does not necessarily indicate that one caused the other
And I find that to be an issue for me. To just bypass any type of diagnosis leads to so many problems as the growing number of detransitioners have catalogued.
Actually, there have been studies to confirm the connections.
Well, then by all means cite them.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
How, by dodging and playing dumb?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
What a weak, lazy tactic; dismiss anything that you're unwilling or incapable of addressing as "irrelevant".
According to Dr. André Van Mol—the co-chair of the American College of Pediatricians’ Committee on Adolescent Sexuality and a contributor to Public Discourse on transgender issues—in the overwhelming majority of cases, the desire to switch one’s gender identity is closely connected to adverse experiences in childhood. More broadly, studies have reported a high frequency of childhood emotional and physical neglect and abuse among transgender-identifying individuals.
Gender Dysphoria and Adverse Childhood Experiences
With the current algorithms always bringing up what is currently happening... it is getting harder and harder to access studies of 4 years ago.
Oh, not Walt Heyer. He's basically "ex-trans", like how there were "ex-gays" and presents trans people as if we're all just delusional and need corrective therapy. He made a mistake, so he thinks we all made a mistake. He's blatantly wrong and very insulting. He's part of the Evangelical Christian right and pushes "pray the trans away" nonsense.
I have sympathy for his struggles but he has no right to demonize and lie about an entire group of people, a group he was part of, no less! Very bad source of info to turn to about this.
But here’s the pertinent question.
Were those traumatic experiences the actual cause of the gender dysphoria or did they occur due to gender dysphoria?
What I mean by that is it’s not a good idea to look at two correlating factors and just presume one caused the other. Indeed the cited studies don’t really seem to speak to the trauma being the actual causal factor. Just that individuals experience them at higher rates. And given the amount of stories there are about kids who are kicked out or otherwise abused due to coming out, it might be a chicken and the egg scenario. And don’t forget that even having gender dysphoria is enough to cause distress and yes even trauma in an individual.
Indeed extensive evaluation by qualified mental health experts (again a mandatory prerequisite in many countries before gender affirming care can take place) would be able to not only identify such instances, but seperate them.
Any shrink worth their salt would be able to tell if trauma was actually the cause and so treat it properly. Resulting in detransitioning. Which does happen just not very often, interestingly
And conversely they would be able to identify when the trauma is just a correlation, meaning once the trauma is dealt with in a healthy manner, the person still has gender dysphoria.
I’m not saying the two don’t have links to each other. Again even having gender dysphoria is known to case trauma in indivduals.
But it’s much more complex than it simply being a causal factor alone. Something which I don’t think these studies are saying. But I’m no scientist so
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SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Ask for a citation of a study indicating that " people who deal with gender dysphoria have a root cause of some sort of trauma" and we're presented with an opinion piece by this guy ...
.... That doesn't say really even say what you claim it does.
Walt Heyer
Walt Heyer is an accomplished author and public speaker. Through his website, SexChangeRegret.com, and his blog, WaltHeyer.com, Heyer raises public awareness about the incidence of regret and the tragic consequences suffered as a result of unnecessary sex change surgery..... That doesn't say really even say what you claim it does.