Joseph Smith Fraud

[Autodidact]

Mormons do not hate gays or lesbians. Positions of the Mormon Church on moral issues are not motivated by hate. People who think that Mormon are motivated by hate will never understand the true position of the LDS Church and why it does what it does. People who disagree with the stance of the LDS Church, on any subject, will be better served and better prepared to defend their own position, if they have the patience and wisdom to come to an accurate understanding of the motivations of those who oppose their point of view.

I assume the comment about dumspters and calipers was not to be taken seriously, or was it?

I really don't care what motivates you, as long as you get out of the way of our fight for equality.

 

[AxisMundi]

Mormons do not hate gays or lesbians. Positions of the Mormon Church on moral issues are not motivated by hate. People who think that Mormon are motivated by hate will never understand the true position of the LDS Church and why it does what it does. People who disagree with the stance of the LDS Church, on any subject, will be better served and better prepared to defend their own position, if they have the patience and wisdom to come to an accurate understanding of the motivations of those who oppose their point of view.

I assume the comment about dumspters and calipers was not to be taken seriously, or was it?

Ignoring simple sciences to further an agenda of discrimination against a US minority simply because scripture says so?

Sounds like hate to me.

 

[Scott C.]

Ignoring simple sciences to further an agenda of discrimination against a US minority simply because scripture says so?

Sounds like hate to me.

You can usually tell if your closest friends or loved ones are full of hate or love. It's not as easy to tell with strangers or figures in the media. I have many loved ones who share my church's view. It's very easy for me to tell that they are not full of hate. I know that I'm not. I also know a lot of people, who are close to me, who see things differently from me. I don't sense hatred in them either.

It's sad that in society there is so much hatred and scepticism, that often we can't differentiate the sincere from the phony or love from hate. We draw wrong conclusions without taking the time to try to understand.

 

[tomato1236]

It's been my general observation that those who accuse me of being hateful are the ones with anger and animus in their words. Here's a quote I read recently regarding the tendancy of folks to accuse all who are against gay marriage as being hateful:

‎1. At any rate, the inference of anti-gay hostility drawn by the district court is manifestly false. It defames more than seven million California voters as homophobic, a cruelly ironic charge, as noted earlier, given that California has ...enacted some of the Nation’s most progressive and sweeping gay-rights protections, including creation of a parallel institution, domestic partnerships, affording same-sex couples all the benefits and obligations of marriage. Nor can the court’s inference be limited to California, for it necessarily attributes anti-gay animus to all who affirm that marriage, in its age-old form as the union of a man and a woman, continues to rationally serve society’s interests, including the citizens and lawmakers of the 45 States that have maintained that definition, the Congress and President that overwhelmingly passed and signed into law the federal Defense of Marriage Act, a large majority of the federal and state court judges who have addressed same-sex marriage, and the current President of the United States.53

 

[sniper762]

not only are homosexual acts ungodly..........they are unnatural.....even the uncivilized ANIMALS dont do it.

 

[tomato1236]

not only are homosexual acts ungodly..........they are unnatural.....even the uncivilized ANIMALS dont do it.

Actually, from what I understand, there are animals who do it. Again, as I mentioned in another post, comparing our behavior to animals isn't a basis for morality.

What I think is a better argument ,given your scripture set, is that homosexuality IS natural, much like fornication, etc., and that the natural man is something to overcome, not something to strive to be.

 

[Smoke]

I have many loved ones who share my church's view. It's very easy for me to tell that they are not full of hate.

No matter how much you believe it's a loving act for your dear old granny to hit somebody in the face with a shovel, I will continue to think that it's a hateful act, and that your failure to recognize that, and your granny's failure to recognize it, make the both of you more rather than less culpable.

It defames more than seven million California voters as homophobic, a cruelly ironic charge, as noted earlier, given that California has ...enacted some of the Nation’s most progressive and sweeping gay-rights protections, including creation of a parallel institution, domestic partnerships, affording same-sex couples all the benefits and obligations of marriage. Nor can the court’s inference be limited to California, for it necessarily attributes anti-gay animus to all who affirm that marriage, in its age-old form as the union of a man and a woman, continues to rationally serve society’s interests, including the citizens and lawmakers of the 45 States that have maintained that definition, the Congress and President that overwhelmingly passed and signed into law the federal Defense of Marriage Act, a large majority of the federal and state court judges who have addressed same-sex marriage, and the current President of the United States.53

That's the key, though, isn't it? None of these anti-gay crusaders have been able to articulate a single rational reason why gay people should not have the same rights under the law as straight people. People who claim such a rational reason are either barefaced liars, or blinded by their own bigotry.

 

[tomato1236]

No matter how much you believe it's a loving act for your dear old granny to hit somebody in the face with a shovel, I will continue to think that it's a hateful act, and that your failure to recognize that, and your granny's failure to recognize it, make the both of you more rather than less culpable.

What this comes down to is not my opinion or yours. Not majority or minority. If that were the case, the case would be settled, having been determined by vote. It comes down to a couple of lawyers on either side and their ability to convince the court that there is an interest to the state one way or the other.

I don't feel like I'm hateful. My granny (you, apparently) does. I'm pretty sure I haven't hit her with a shovel. She seems to think I have. I'm pretty sure she has dimentia, she thinks she's Mark Twain. None of this really matters. What matters is what happens in those courts.

That's the key, though, isn't it? None of these anti-gay crusaders have been able to articulate a single rational reason why gay people should not have the same rights under the law as straight people. People who claim such a rational reason are either barefaced liars, or blinded by their own bigotry.

In your view.

 

[Smoke]

I don't feel like I'm hateful.

What else would you call it when you go out of your way to harm others?

In your view.

Until your side can come up with a rational argument, it's the only honest view.

 

[AxisMundi]

You can usually tell if your closest friends or loved ones are full of hate or love. It's not as easy to tell with strangers or figures in the media. I have many loved ones who share my church's view. It's very easy for me to tell that they are not full of hate. I know that I'm not. I also know a lot of people, who are close to me, who see things differently from me. I don't sense hatred in them either.

It's sad that in society there is so much hatred and scepticism, that often we can't differentiate the sincere from the phony or love from hate. We draw wrong conclusions without taking the time to try to understand.

It is very easy to tell when an Institution is full of hate, and fowards an agenda of hate. And if people support that hate filled bigotry of that Institution, guess what?

Banning clergy from conducting same-gendered relgiious wedding cerimonies isn't so much a matter of hate as it is merely religious doctrine.

But an attempt to circumvent Constitutional principles to force that view on everyone in California, in effect forcing each Cali Citizen to BE a Christian just so "them gays" are discriminated against, is indeed a hate filled agenda.

 

[AxisMundi]

It's been my general observation that those who accuse me of being hateful are the ones with anger and animus in their words. Here's a quote I read recently regarding the tendancy of folks to accuse all who are against gay marriage as being hateful:

‎1. At any rate, the inference of anti-gay hostility drawn by the district court is manifestly false. It defames more than seven million California voters as homophobic, a cruelly ironic charge, as noted earlier, given that California has ...enacted some of the Nation’s most progressive and sweeping gay-rights protections, including creation of a parallel institution, domestic partnerships, affording same-sex couples all the benefits and obligations of marriage. Nor can the court’s inference be limited to California, for it necessarily attributes anti-gay animus to all who affirm that marriage, in its age-old form as the union of a man and a woman, continues to rationally serve society’s interests, including the citizens and lawmakers of the 45 States that have maintained that definition, the Congress and President that overwhelmingly passed and signed into law the federal Defense of Marriage Act, a large majority of the federal and state court judges who have addressed same-sex marriage, and the current President of the United States.53

Ignoring the tens of millions of dollars that the LDS, Catholic Church, and Evangical organizations poured into propeganda campaigns simply because Prop 8 was Failing...

Are you suggesting that "7 million Californians" are incapable of hate?

And we can see exactly where your author is coming from. Neither Civil Unions or domestic partnerships come anywhere near close to providing the same thousand plus rights and privileges as my wife and I recieved merely for saying "I Do" in front of a Justice of the Peace.

Indeed, it is nothing close to Equality in any shape or form of the term. It is a failed attempt to the oxymoron "seperate but equal", an already failed social experiment in this Nation.

 

[tomato1236]

Ignoring the tens of millions of dollars that the LDS, Catholic Church, and Evangical organizations poured into propeganda campaigns simply because Prop 8 was Failing...

Are you suggesting that "7 million Californians" are incapable of hate?

And we can see exactly where your author is coming from. Neither Civil Unions or domestic partnerships come anywhere near close to providing the same thousand plus rights and privileges as my wife and I recieved merely for saying "I Do" in front of a Justice of the Peace.

Indeed, it is nothing close to Equality in any shape or form of the term. It is a failed attempt to the oxymoron "seperate but equal", an already failed social experiment in this Nation.

I just feel it's inaccurate and slanderous to call someone hateful just because they don't support your view.

 

[tomato1236]

What else would you call it when you go out of your way to harm others?

Where have I harmed others? What have I done that constitutes going "out of my way"? I don't even live in California.

Until your side can come up with a rational argument, it's the only honest view.

In your view.

 

[AxisMundi]

I just feel it's inaccurate and slanderous to call someone hateful just because they don't support your view.

You can oppose my view all you wish. I would probrably point out that you were being willfully ignorant, but that's about it.

However, to actively persue and promote discrimiantion through our laws indeed takes hatred.

 

[Sententia]

I am a former member of the LDS church and will like to display one thing that convinced me that religion is not true. The mormon church was founded in America in the early 1800s by a man named Joseph Smith who claimed to had seen a vision from God and Jesus. He claimed to be a prophet and was supposedly appointed to lead God's church. He managed to convert thousands of people but they were having to move from place to place because of bad relations with other people.

He was later shot in a jail by a mob and the mormons moved out west to Utah. Joseph Smith supposedly translated the Book of Mormon which is supposedly a record of the previous inhabitants of the Americas. These people supposedly had technology and resources such as iron, swords, steel, silk, ships, armor, walled cities, and horses.

He claimed to be a seer which means that he can translate documents in unknown languages with the gift of the spirit. Joseph Smith found some papyri found among Egyptian mummies and claimed that these papyri contained the Book of Abraham. He then preceeded to translate them. He actually made some copies of some of the things on these papyri and translated them. These facsimiles are given in this link Abraham.

One facsimile I want to focus on is this below.

EXPLANATION
Fig. 1. Abraham sitting upon Pharaoh’s throne, by the politeness of the king, with a crown upon his head, representing the Priesthood, as emblematical of the grand Presidency in Heaven; with the scepter of justice and judgment in his hand.
Fig. 2. King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.
Fig. 3. Signifies Abraham in Egypt as given also in Figure 10 of facsimile 3.
Fig. 4. Prince of Pharaoh, King of Egypt, as written above the hand.
Fig. 5. Shulem, one of the king’s principal waiters, as represented by the characters above his hand.
Fig. 6. Olimlah, a slave belonging to the prince.
Abraham is reasoning upon the principles of Astronomy, in the king’s court.

Notice that he incorrectly thought that the two women in the picture were Pharoah and his son. What do you think?

Irreligiosophy - The One True Podcast

GREAT podcast. I found these guys about a week ago and they are awesome.

 

[tumbleweed41]

not only are homosexual acts ungodly..........they are unnatural.....even the uncivilized ANIMALS dont do it.

I really did not expect you to be ignorant of animal behavior.
List of animals displaying homosexual behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



1,500 animal species practice homosexuality


Homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom, especially among herding animals. Many animals solve conflicts by practicing same gender sex.


"One fundamental premise in social debates has been that homosexuality is unnatural. This premise is wrong. Homosexuality is both common and highly essential in the lives of a number of species," explains Petter Boeckman, who is the academic adviser for the "Against Nature's Order?" exhibition.

The most well-known homosexual animal is the dwarf chimpanzee, one of humanity's closes relatives. The entire species is bisexual. Sex plays an conspicuous role in all their activities and takes the focus away from violence, which is the most typical method of solving conflicts among primates and many other animals.
1,500 animal species practice homosexuality

 

[Sententia]

not only are homosexual acts ungodly..........they are unnatural.....even the uncivilized ANIMALS dont do it.

LoL

This is funny. If as a baby you were raised in a gay household your personality would be hell bent the other way.

We get you were brought up religious but at some point you probably discovered that you are not an ultimate product of your environment and repeating your upbringing code infers you revere the people who taught you that more then thinking for yourself.

Why?

 

[sniper762]

sorry but you have it all wrong. i was brought up in an atheist environmment but when i grew up, i learned better, against the poor judgement of my peers.

 

[Sententia]

sorry but you have it all wrong. i was brought up in an atheist environmment but when i grew up, i learned better, against the poor judgement of my peers.

So then you stated: "even the uncivilized ANIMALS dont do it" and you are wrong. So wrong to the point that I had to LOL.

So perhaps I was wrong to assume you were brought up religious? (Which I doubt but whatever, I was brought up religious)

But I am not sure how this paints you in a better light. I gave you the out that you were just repeating bunk you were told and were indoctrinated too and you refute that saying no... I learned through study that animals are not homosexual.

Really?

Cause its false. So where were you studying? Your whole comment:

not only are homosexual acts ungodly..........they are unnatural.....even the uncivilized ANIMALS dont do it.

Ungodly? Which god? Cyric loves homos.... Its not ungodly at all. Unnatural? There are lots of instances of gay animals that naturally occur.

Your final comment that animals dont do it is ludicrously false.

Having given you the out that its not your fault you were raised that way you come out and say no I wasnt. I was brought up to find things out for myself and I learned animals are not gay and that gay people and not natural and will burn in hell...

Seems your correction only paints you as willfully ignorant.

 

[linwood]

why is it that all athieist are pro-gay and maybe actually gay?

i suppose its their choice, but not one that i care to associate with.

i thought this to be a religious forum not a pro-fagget one.

How old are you?

My ten year old has more class and intelligence.