Joseph Smith Fraud

[AxisMundi]

Does that make a difference?

Certianly. For you to marry another man would be unnatural. You are a heterosexual.

For a gay man to wish to marry a consenting gay man is compeltely natural.

 

[Katzpur]

That question was directed at tomatoe.

Sorry, I thought it was an open forum.

 

[AxisMundi]

Sorry, I thought it was an open forum.

I was already aware of your opinion on the matter.

Sorry, thought you knew that already.

 

[Dan4reason]

I actually have no problem with same-sex marriage and have said so on a number of occasions. It doesn't seem to have endeared me to any gays and lesbians, though. Most of them find some other reason to dislike me.

(I'm trying to figure out how this thread has anything to do with Joseph Smith. It's too long for me to plow through, so I guess I'd probably be safe in assuming that all anti-Mormon sentiments are legitimately lumped in together, regardless of the OP.)

I would never label people who disagree with the teaching of your church to be "anti-Mormon." I have been labeled that many times even when I try to explain that I do not hate mormons or their church, I simply see them as obviously wrong and want to spread the word. How would you like if I labeled you as anti-democrat or anti-republican because you have strong arguments against them. We are simply Christians, agnostics, and atheists who have major problems with many of you teachings.

The OP which I made is about Joseph Smith and shows that he mistranslated Egyptian papyri.

 

[Katzpur]

I would never label people who disagree with the teaching of your church to be "anti-Mormon." I have been labeled that many times even when I try to explain that I do not hate mormons or their church, I simply see them as obviously wrong and want to spread the word. How would you like if I labeled you as anti-democrat or anti-republican because you have strong arguments against them. We are simply Christians, agnostics, and atheists who have major problems with many of you teachings.

I've never lumped all people who disagree with LDS teachings as "anti-Mormon." I know I'm not "anti-Catholic" and I definitely don't agree with all Catholic teachings.

The OP which I made is about Joseph Smith and shows that he mistranslated Egyptian papyri.

Well, I didn't get in on the beginnings of the thread, and it's obviously veered off way off that topic to be a general "Here's what I hate about Mormons" thread, hasn't it?

 

[Midnight Pete]

If good people are living good lives, why take all the time and effort to disprove it?

That's a valid question.

That's why I don't go to any lengths trying to disprove the religious beliefs of other people. It leads to nothing but mutual hatred, violence, death. It leads to nothing good.

 

[Dan4reason]

I've never lumped all people who disagree with LDS teachings as "anti-Mormon." I know I'm not "anti-Catholic" and I definitely don't agree with all Catholic teachings.

Well, I didn't get in on the beginnings of the thread, and it's obviously veered off way off that topic to be a general "Here's what I hate about Mormons" thread, hasn't it?

The posts in this thread have been very off topic and I have not seen even one that condons hatred to mormons. Many posts have displayed arguments against mormonism or have expressed disagreement with some of the activities of the mormon church, so could you show me some anti-mormon posts?

My argument in the OP is that Joseph Smith incorrectly thought that two people in facimile 3 were the pharoah and his son when they are actually women.

 

[Autodidact]

I've never lumped all people who disagree with LDS teachings as "anti-Mormon." I know I'm not "anti-Catholic" and I definitely don't agree with all Catholic teachings.

Well, I didn't get in on the beginnings of the thread, and it's obviously veered off way off that topic to be a general "Here's what I hate about Mormons" thread, hasn't it?

No, not at all. Saying that Joseph Smith was a fraud and the Book of Mormon is false has nothing whatsoever to do with hating Mormons; quite the contrary.

 

[AxisMundi]

No, not at all. Saying that Joseph Smith was a fraud and the Book of Mormon is false has nothing whatsoever to do with hating Mormons; quite the contrary.

But Autro, you know the whole "hate the sin love the sinner" thing can only be done by Christians.

 

[Katzpur]

The OP which I made is about Joseph Smith and shows that he mistranslated Egyptian papyri.

I know, and I disagree with your conclusions. But since I am just returning to the forum after a four-month absence and decided when I came back that I was going to be a lot more selective in the threads I choose to participate on, I'm going to make good on that by exiting this thread for good as of right now. I have learned from past experience to avoid, to the extent possible, debating on the same threads as Autodidact. She's the only person on the forum I have on ignore, and it's pointless to try to debate a topic when you're not seeing the posts of one of the most active participants. So, you have fun. I'll see you on another thread sometime, I'm sure, and it might even be a topic we can agree on.

 

[Dan4reason]

I know, and I disagree with your conclusions. But since I am just returning to the forum after a four-month absence and decided when I came back that I was going to be a lot more selective in the threads I choose to participate on, I'm going to make good on that by exiting this thread for good as of right now. I have learned from past experience to avoid, to the extent possible, debating on the same threads as Autodidact. She's the only person on the forum I have on ignore, and it's pointless to try to debate a topic when you're not seeing the posts of one of the most active participants. So, you have fun. I'll see you on another thread sometime, I'm sure, and it might even be a topic we can agree on.

If you do not prefer to debate this topic I understand. See you around.

 

[no-body]

I have learned from past experience to avoid, to the extent possible, debating on the same threads as Autodidact. She's the only person on the forum I have on ignore, and it's pointless to try to debate a topic when you're not seeing the posts of one of the most active participants.

I know it's not every Mormon but can you at least understand where the Mormon hate comes from when the majority of Mormons and Mormon leaders fund and actively try to legislate hate? When homosexuality is actively treated as a mental illness and when worst of all Mormon LGTB teens have the choice of eating out of a dumpster or getting wires calipered to their genitals?

I know nobody likes their believes attacked but aren't you guys supposed to embody Jesus Christ and take the higher ground in peace, love, understanding, etc? Autodidact is only an atheist. I've noticed Mormons on here get awfully nasty when their views are attacked.

 

[silvermoon383]

We're gonna need to see some evidence to back up those claims there no-body. In order to classify as a majority you'll need to prove that at least 7 million Mormons have donated to these so-called hateful legislations. We need proof that the Church treats homosexuality as a disease, and it'll have to be modern and easily shown to be out of step with the accepted psychological and physiological definitions, beliefs, and evidence.

And don't bother trying to refute the thing about Mormon teens. A close friend of mine that I grew up with it gay, and she never either ate out of a dumpster or had wires calipered to her genitals. (And by showing just 1 event that is contrary to you're statement, your categorial "all" statement is rendered false.)

 

[Autodidact]

We're gonna need to see some evidence to back up those claims there no-body. In order to classify as a majority you'll need to prove that at least 7 million Mormons have donated to these so-called hateful legislations. We need proof that the Church treats homosexuality as a disease, and it'll have to be modern and easily shown to be out of step with the accepted psychological and physiological definitions, beliefs, and evidence.

And don't bother trying to refute the thing about Mormon teens. A close friend of mine that I grew up with it gay, and she never either ate out of a dumpster or had wires calipered to her genitals. (And by showing just 1 event that is contrary to you're statement, your categorial "all" statement is rendered false.)

Y'all might want to start a thread; it's getting pretty OT here.

 

[no-body]

We're gonna need to see some evidence to back up those claims there no-body. In order to classify as a majority you'll need to prove that at least 7 million Mormons have donated to these so-called hateful legislations. We need proof that the Church treats homosexuality as a disease, and it'll have to be modern and easily shown to be out of step with the accepted psychological and physiological definitions, beliefs, and evidence.

I love how every religious person starts wanting to get into technicalities and semantics about facts. Pick up a newspaper.

And don't bother trying to refute the thing about Mormon teens. A close friend of mine that I grew up with it gay, and she never either ate out of a dumpster or had wires calipered to her genitals. (And by showing just 1 event that is contrary to you're statement, your categorial "all" statement is rendered false.)

OK I admit that comment was hyperbolic but "ex-gay" camps are a reality and for some people it does happen and not just Mormon.

 

[no-body]

Y'all might want to start a thread; it's getting pretty OT here.

Perhaps, but this thread seems destined to fail from the beginning since we are discussing faith. Short of finding a hidden diary that admits Smith was full of it I think people will believe no matter what. Probably if they even found such material.

Personally I think Josepth Smith was a typical cult leader who was after money and sex... I mean his actions are blatant. But all that matters is his followers are doing good with the believes he set up now. All that needs to go away is Mormonisms one glaring flaw.

 

[Dan4reason]

I know it's not every Mormon but can you at least understand where the Mormon hate comes from when the majority of Mormons and Mormon leaders fund and actively try to legislate hate? When homosexuality is actively treated as a mental illness and when worst of all Mormon LGTB teens have the choice of eating out of a dumpster or getting wires calipered to their genitals?

I know nobody likes their believes attacked but aren't you guys supposed to embody Jesus Christ and take the higher ground in peace, love, understanding, etc? Autodidact is only an atheist. I've noticed Mormons on here get awfully nasty when their views are attacked.

I have actually found that Mormons are quite civil compared to most in this forum. I do find that they are least likely to debate their beliefs because they have so much faith.

I find that some Mormons do hate or at least extremely dislike gays but the majority do not. Homosexuality is condemned in the Mormon church and homosexuals are seen as sinful but there is little hatred of them. One thing I condemn is the Mormon church's attempts to ban gay marriage.

 

[Scott C.]

I know it's not every Mormon but can you at least understand where the Mormon hate comes from when the majority of Mormons and Mormon leaders fund and actively try to legislate hate? When homosexuality is actively treated as a mental illness and when worst of all Mormon LGTB teens have the choice of eating out of a dumpster or getting wires calipered to their genitals?

I know nobody likes their believes attacked but aren't you guys supposed to embody Jesus Christ and take the higher ground in peace, love, understanding, etc? Autodidact is only an atheist. I've noticed Mormons on here get awfully nasty when their views are attacked.

Mormons do not hate gays or lesbians. Positions of the Mormon Church on moral issues are not motivated by hate. People who think that Mormon are motivated by hate will never understand the true position of the LDS Church and why it does what it does. People who disagree with the stance of the LDS Church, on any subject, will be better served and better prepared to defend their own position, if they have the patience and wisdom to come to an accurate understanding of the motivations of those who oppose their point of view.

I assume the comment about dumspters and calipers was not to be taken seriously, or was it?

 

[Smoke]

Mormons do not hate gays or lesbians. Positions of the Mormon Church on moral issues are not motivated by hate. People who think that Mormon are motivated by hate will never understand the true position of the LDS Church and why it does what it does.

Actions speak louder than words. If somebody were to demolish an LDS temple because they sincerely believed Mormonism was a danger to your immortal soul, they might consider themselves loving but I doubt that you or anybody else would believe it.

Lies and coercion are not acts of love, but those are the actions of the LDS hierarchy toward their lesbian and gay neighbors.

 

[no-body]

Mormons do not hate gays or lesbians. Positions of the Mormon Church on moral issues are not motivated by hate. People who think that Mormon are motivated by hate will never understand the true position of the LDS Church and why it does what it does. People who disagree with the stance of the LDS Church, on any subject, will be better served and better prepared to defend their own position, if they have the patience and wisdom to come to an accurate understanding of the motivations of those who oppose their point of view.

Here we go with quibbling over words. The core members of your group funded and supported a hate bill. The official position on homosexuality by the church also equals hate. You can call it whatever else you want by loading up on the doublespeak but it's still hate.

I assume the comment about dumspters and calipers was not to be taken seriously, or was it?

It happens, unless every LGBT with that story is lying.