Joseph Smith Fraud

[AxisMundi]

marriage is not a right, its a priveledge. its like a grant or a gift. a gift is not dictaded by the receiver, but rather the giver. if it is a priveledge of a state, then it requires that state's conditions. if you dont abide by tthem, then you dont get the priveledge.

back in the days of old, to be concidered married, the husband to be would ask for the hand of the bride to be from their father (maybe give him a goat or a cow) and if he gave his blessiing then it became so.

maybe you should go that route if thats all your after.

if its more you desire, like legal state benefits granted by marriage, then you'll just have to play by their rules.

Back in the day, marriages were arranged.

And marriage is certainly a right, it is a Civil Right.

Read the findings of Loving v Virginia, were SCOTUS affirms that fact.

 

[AxisMundi]

It was about 30 years ago blacks were allowed to hold the priesthood.

I don't know how many millions were behind it--some LDS support gay marriage--but there are something like 5 million members of the church in the US and I would imagine foreign members wouldn't be involved, about 3 million members probably stay out of politics and don't give a dern, so I would estimate that about 2 million members were rallied against prop 8. Of course, they're spread all across the country, so the actual voting population in California was probably more like hundreds of thousands at most. I think the population of CA is something like 37 million.

Just because a person votes against gay marriage, doesn't mean they hate gay people. I'm sure there are mormons who are hateful, but it's not because the church taught them to be. The church's teachings are Christ's teachings, which were love. My brother is gay. Though I don't support changing the definition of marriage, I love my brother. I don't claim to understand how homosexuality fits into things, or why some people are gay and others aren't. It actually bugs me when anti-gay people say that it's a choice. Like they know. I don't antagonize gay folks. I don't hate gay folks. I'm a mormon.

The Abrahamics all preach hatred for gays, calling homosexuality a "sin".

Auto--

Thanks for the links. Stanford is a pretty credible source. It's weird that the Mayans were smart enough to invent the 0 concept 1000 years before the arabs, and build huge pyramids, and farm for a living, but not smart enough to make a wheel. I thought that was caveman stuff. I mean, did they live without fire, too? Poor Mayans.

Wheels don't work well in mountains and tropical forests.

 

[sniper762]

not all marriages

 

[linwood]

Originally Posted by tomato1236
Auto--

Thanks for the links. Stanford is a pretty credible source. It's weird that the Mayans were smart enough to invent the 0 concept 1000 years before the arabs, and build huge pyramids, and farm for a living, but not smart enough to make a wheel. I thought that was caveman stuff. I mean, did they live without fire, too? Poor Mayans.

The Mayans did invent a wheel.

It has been found on small sculptures and children's toys.

They never used a large version for travel/hauling because there was no domesticated animal on the continent large enough to put it to use.

They didn`t create what they had no use for.

 

[AxisMundi]

not all marriages

Within legal contraints? Certainly all marriages.

Marriage is a legal contract. Therefore the ages are controlled as children cannot make legally binding contracts on their own.

Otherwise, there is no valid reason to deny two consenting adults that basic Civil Right.

Racists tried to eliminate inter-racial marriages, the result of which was Loving v Virginia where marriage as a Civil Right is affirmed.

As there is no valid, secular reason to deny gays that Civil Right, we shall soon see SCOTUS also knock down discriminatory laws agianst permitting them to marry each other.

 

[Autodidact]

marriage is not a right, its a priveledge. its like a grant or a gift. a gift is not dictaded by the receiver, but rather the giver. if it is a priveledge of a state, then it requires that state's conditions. if you dont abide by tthem, then you dont get the priveledge.

back in the days of old, to be concidered married, the husband to be would ask for the hand of the bride to be from their father (maybe give him a goat or a cow) and if he gave his blessiing then it became so.

maybe you should go that route if thats all your after.

if its more you desire, like legal state benefits granted by marriage, then you'll just have to play by their rules.

Or fight to change them.

 

[tomato1236]

The Abrahamics all preach hatred for gays, calling homosexuality a "sin".

The Abrahamics do not teach that we should hate everyone who sins. Othewise we would hate everyone, and ourselves. Rather, general Christianity teaches that we should abhor sin, and love the sinner. The best example of all, obviously, was Christ, who spent his time among sinners.

Wheels don't work well in mountains and tropical forests.

Not without roads, no. Someone else made the point that there weren't any big domestic animals like oxen to pull carts, etc. good points.

 

[tomato1236]

if its more you desire, like legal state benefits granted by marriage, then you'll just have to play by their rules.

It seems to me that the "rules" are supposed to be made by the people. The whole aim (overtly) of the movements we're seeing is to change the law, which, as far as I can tell, will happen.

 

[tomato1236]

I have noticed that a large amount of the athiests/agnostics on this forum are gay. Seemingly larger than the amount or heterosexual athiests, or the percentage of gays among the religious posters. Is there a relationship here?

 

[AxisMundi]

The Abrahamics do not teach that we should hate everyone who sins. Othewise we would hate everyone, and ourselves. Rather, general Christianity teaches that we should abhor sin, and love the sinner. The best example of all, obviously, was Christ, who spent his time among sinners.

While I agree that people will look for ways to substantiate their hatred, fact is religion provides many with such an option.

 

[tomato1236]

While I agree that people will look for ways to substantiate their hatred, fact is religion provides many with such an option.

The option to hate is there for everyone. As is the option to twist religion to justify behavior that is exactly the opposite of the purpose of religion.

 

[sniper762]

tomatoe, the "rules" WERE made by the people, by means of their choice of "rule makers" at the voting booths

 

[tomato1236]

tomatoe, the "rules" WERE made by the people, by means of their choice of "rule makers" at the voting booths

That's right. And more and more there are judges and senators and congresspeople who have been chosen who are supportive of gay marriage...chosen by the people. The largest reason I see that gay marriage will come to be legalized across the nation, is that the largest reasons for its opposition are religious, and the state doesn't recognize religious reasons as the basis for lawmaking. Judges don't judge right and wrong, or sin and virtue, they judge lawful or unlawful, constitutional or unconstitutional, and what falls into those categories can be interpereted various ways. When the majority of our representatives and judges favor gay marriage, they will progressively interperet that it's unconstitutional to deny it.

 

[sniper762]

sad, but true

 

[Autodidact]

tomatoe, the "rules" WERE made by the people, by means of their choice of "rule makers" at the voting booths

Like in Vermont, where they legalized same-sex marriage?

 

[sniper762]

exactly auto, sad but true all gays should go there

 

[tomato1236]

exactly auto, sad but true all gays should go there

!

Yeah, let's start moving everyone to the land of their demographic. Sniper, go to Utah.

If all the gays left to Vermont, I wouldn't get to see my bro very often. And forced relocations are generally bad for the PR.

I wonder if you're an older person.

 

[sniper762]

i never implied "force" i meant if th ey like vermont's laws then go there

im 53 and might be more like you than you know

 

[tomato1236]

im 53 and might be more like you than you know

You might be, but based on the things I've seen you post, I'm thinking we're different.

 

[sniper762]

as you may know, people on these boards tend to "label" one according to their afilliation, thus painting a biased pre-conceived response to their posts