Just stop it guys!

[Unveiled Artist]

I understand your point. However, same-sex intercourse is characteristic of homosexuality, even though it is not exclusive to it.

It isnt, though. If I had straight sex acts that doesnt make me straight and its not characteristic of straights. Unless you are saying straight people are defined by what type of intercourse they perform

That sounds more of a religious thinking. Maybe other gay people define their orientation by actions but actions isnt part of the definition. Its a personal word that defines the attraction: physifal, mental, spiritual of the same gender. What type of sex influences these attractions but they are not an automatic result of it. Its not exclusive to gay people. Especially when the action can be done by anyone. Its like saying all gay me snap their fingers. Its not an exclusive action attributed to only gay men. Its a sociatal norm nonetheless.

Thank you for getting my point.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Would you not agree that in the vast majority of cases the participants of same sex actions also have an attraction to the same sex?

Id assume so. Only because thats how we see individuals in a group of stats. I usually say, if my attractions dont always lead me to sex (well, sometimes ) why would I lump everyone in one boat. Im just being politically correct. If it wasnt a senstivie word then it would annoy me but sense it is and people use it a lot it affects me too.

It's not like orientation has nothing to do with sexual acts. I have sex with women directly because I am a heterosexually oriented man.

True. I guess the association between the two would make sense in that light. It isnt accurate but hey, its expected.

 

[Koldo]

It isnt, though. If I had straight sex acts that doesnt make me straight and its not characteristic of straights. Unless you are saying straight people are defined by what type of intercourse they perform

That sounds more of a religious thinking. Maybe other gay people define their orientation by actions but actions isnt part of the definition. Its a personal word that defines the attraction: physifal, mental, spiritual of the same gender. What type of sex influences these attractions but they are not an automatic result of it. Its not exclusive to gay people. Especially when the action can be done by anyone. Its like saying all gay me snap their fingers. Its not an exclusive action attributed to only gay men. Its a sociatal norm nonetheless.

Thank you for getting my point.

How common do you consider it to be for an heterosexual individual to have same-sex intercourse ?
It is a rare occurrence. On the other hand, that's fairly common to homosexual individuals.
Which is why same-sex intercourse is characteristic of homosexuality.

 

[Demonslayer]

True. I guess the association between the two would make sense in that light. It isnt accurate but hey, its expected.

It's not to refute your point. Your point is important because people need to understand the difference between orientation and behavior. I could very easily have sex with a man for other motives than desire and that would not make me gay. Let's say someone offers me $10,000 to give them a lil' rub n' tug. (too low?? ) I could do the action, find it unappealing, and I would still be straight.

This is an important idea for people to recognize, that performing a same sex act does not "make you gay." It's just a very subtle point so people may have a hard time grasping what you're trying to say.

 

[Demonslayer]

How common do you consider it to be for an heterosexual individual to have same-sex intercourse ?
It is a rare occurrence.

Not in the prison system.

I agree with your point overall, but there are lots of cases where people go against their orientation. I've read that a lot of male porn stars have to get started in gay porn. I've also known a handful of women who had experiences with other women but decided it wasn't for them and consider themselves straight.

Of course it's entirely more common for orientation to match actions, but there are a bunch of reasons why it happens.

 

[Koldo]

Not in the prison system.

I agree with your point overall, but there are lots of cases where people go against their orientation. I've read that a lot of male porn stars have to get started in gay porn. I've also known a handful of women who had experiences with other women but decided it wasn't for them and consider themselves straight.

Of course it's entirely more common for orientation to match actions, but there are a bunch of reasons why it happens.

Sure. There are exceptions.

 

[Acim]

I agree with what OP is conveying and in posts on the last page I only see one (very indirect) reference to bisexuality. If I as male bisexual have sexual intercourse with a male, it is not a homosexual action. It's as accurate to consider it a bisexual action, and arguably more accurate as possibility would always exist for everyone to go either way (or both ways).

I think its easier, perhaps most accurate, to just call it 'sexual behavior.' Or 'sex acts' for short. In the unlikely event that people are observing the act between two (or more) participants, they are free to make whatever assumptions they wish about the orientation of the people involved (i.e. those two guys having sex with each other are certainly gay). That assumption could, rather easily, be mistaken. An erroneous judgment. Or it could be spot on. But two people kissing, who happen to be the same-sex, does not necessarily make for 'homosexual behavior.'

I do recognize how debatable that is, but would just revert back to idea that it also makes for 'bisexual behavior' as much as it does 'homosexual.' When apart from the acts, the terms really do apply to attraction. Either only, or foremost.

IMO, getting into finer details and nuances of sexual behaviors, I think it would be easier, but could take awhile, to have this make more sense. Concluding that the actions themselves don't necessarily align with orientation, nor do they need to (routinely) be framed that way.

Spiritually, philosophically and/or psychologically, I think there is a bigger point to be made, but perhaps unnecessary in this thread.

 

[McBell]

Sheesh.

Homosexuality: A person who has an attraction of someone of his or her own sex.

Same-sex: Same-gender.

Same-sex actions: Intercourse between two people of the same gender.

Homosexuality and homosexual has nothing to do with same-sex actions.

We use it a lot as if homosexuals are defined by some actions we may or may not do. Not all homosexuals have same-sex intercourse/actions. Not all heterosexuals have opposite-sex intercourse/actions. It's a generalization; and, in this case, very in accurate.

We do not say, when referring to straight people, "she performed opposite-sex genders" nor do we say "straight sex actions".

It's a generalization and inaccurate whether straight or not.

And once again you are ignoring the second half of the phrase you whine so much about.

if youare not interested in serious discussion, all you have to do is say so.

 

[McBell]

What is a homosexual action in relation to many topics about same-sex sex? How do you define homosexual actions other than same-sex sex?

Like @columbus was saying. He and his husband goes shopping, does that mean grocery shopping is a homosexual action?

I was just describing the definitions.

Homosexual: Is a person who has the sexual orientation of those of his same gender.

Same-sex actions: Is intercourse between any two people of the same gender.

Homosexual and homosexuality has nothing to do with same-sex actions as described above.

Why would people correlate the two when the former is sexual orientation and the latter is an action or verb?

*yawn*
You keep changing the phrase you are whining about.
Above is a prime example of it.....

Now put "homosexual actions" in the above list.
I mean, you left it out of the list.
Why is that?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

And once again you are ignoring the second half of the phrase you whine so much about.

if youare not interested in serious discussion, all you have to do is say so.

I don't like sarcasm. If you have more of a deeper way of seeing my point, please express it. All I am hearing is sacarsm. If you don't understand the difference between homosexuality, homosexual, and same-sex acts, how can you have a serious discussion without attacks.

If you have something deeper to give us, please do. If you resort to sarcasm, sorry, that's not serious. It's actually doing the very thing you accusing me off without any basis of accusation.

 

[McBell]

I don't like sarcasm. If you have more of a deeper way of seeing my point, please express it. All I am hearing is sacarsm. If you don't understand the difference between homosexuality, homosexual, and same-sex acts, how can you have a serious discussion without attacks.

If you have something deeper to give us, please do. If you resort to sarcasm, sorry, that's not serious. It's actually doing the very thing you accusing me off without any basis of accusation.

YOU are the one who keeps changing the phrase you whine about.

You go from "homosexual actions" to "homosexual" saying that "homosexual" blah blah blah....
Please define "homosexual actions".

 

[Unveiled Artist]

*yawn*
You keep changing the phrase you are whining about.
Above is a prime example of it.....

Now put "homosexual actions" in the above list.
I mean, you left it out of the list.
Why is that?

Because homosexual acts is not appropriate and accurate to referring to same-sex actions. If you have a better way of explaining how it does, than do tell. The best person who did this was, who was, um... @Koldo 74, Myself 76, @Demonslayer . If you have something productive to add, please share or keep up with the rest of the convo.

No insults. No sarcasm.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

YOU are the one who keeps changing the phrase you whine about.

You go from "homosexual actions" to "homosexual" saying that "homosexual" blah blah blah....
Please define "homosexual actions".

Again

Homosexual: Person whose attracted to the same gender (same-sex/gender orientation

Homosexulity: An attraction to someone of the same gender

Same-sex actions: Any two people (GBLTQAS) who has relations with those of their same gender

Homosexuality is about orientation.

Same-sex sex has to do with relations between two people of the same-sex.

One is orientation. The other is an action.

It's common to associate the two together. I prefer to say same-sex actions. It doesn't put emphasis on GBLTQAS people and it doesn't say they are the actions they may perform.

Instead, it just describes an action without clinging it to a person as if someone is defined by actions they may or may not perform.

Like the example I gave with Columbus.

If I went grocery shopping (or aka had sex) with my ex, would that make our shopping a "homosexual act" likewise with sex and anything else GBLTQA do just as straight people do.

You don't see people saying "that's a straight-sex action."

Read the whole post. I can tell when you don't because of the sarcasm. If you want to have a serious discussion address my points without insults. If not, I will not reply.​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The action/activity clearly does not define the orientation... is what I hear OP saying.

Yes. Please put it on a billboard pweese!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's not to refute your point. Your point is important because people need to understand the difference between orientation and behavior. I could very easily have sex with a man for other motives than desire and that would not make me gay. Let's say someone offers me $10,000 to give them a lil' rub n' tug. (too low?? ) I could do the action, find it unappealing, and I would still be straight.

This is an important idea for people to recognize, that performing a same sex act does not "make you gay." It's just a very subtle point so people may have a hard time grasping what you're trying to say.

$10.000 that's cheap. Go for a million. Seriously, though, we are all human; so, we do a lot of things that don't correlate to our sexual orientation. Thank you for getting my point.

 

[Milton Platt]

Stop calling same-sex actions "homosexual actions". That's not the definition of homosexual. It is a bias label that excludes the same actions that many straight people perform and visa versa. It also shows that same-sex actions is exclusively a "homosexual" trait. It is not.

Please get it right. It annoys the heck out of me. I don't know about other GBLTQA yes and S, but I'm getting off my soap box now.

Can you define what you mean by the term "same sex actions"? I don't know whether I agree or disagree because I cannot make any sense of your statement.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Can you define what you mean by the term "same sex actions"? I don't know whether I agree or disagree because I cannot make any sense of your statement.

I usually not comfortable with sexual terminology. Don't know why.

Same-sex acts is intercourse between two people of the same gender.

 

[McBell]

Again

Homosexual: Person whose attracted to the same gender (same-sex/gender orientation

Homosexulity: An attraction to someone of the same gender

Same-sex actions: Any two people (GBLTQAS) who has relations with those of their same gender

Homosexuality is about orientation.

Same-sex sex has to do with relations between two people of the same-sex.

One is orientation. The other is an action.

Merely repeating yourself ad nauseum does not change the fact that you are avoiding defining the phrase you are whining about.

So feel free to continue chasing your tail.

It's common to associate the two together. I prefer to say same-sex actions. It doesn't put emphasis on GBLTQAS people and it doesn't say they are the actions they may perform.

What is the difference between "same-sex actions" and "homosexual actions" other than you personal dislike of the phrase "homosexual actions"?

Instead, it just describes an action without clinging it to a person as if someone is defined by actions they may or may not perform.

That YOU use it to define individuals instead of their actions is YOUR hangup, not mine.

Like the example I gave with Columbus.

If I went grocery shopping (or aka had sex) with my ex, would that make our shopping a "homosexual act" likewise with sex and anything else GBLTQA do just as straight people do.

As I have already stated and you flat out ignored, when you start saying "homosexual shopping" or "same sex shopping" you MIGHT have a point.

You don't see people saying "that's a straight-sex action."

And?

Like I said, YOUR hang ups over the phrase are just that, YOUR hang ups.

Read the whole post. I can tell when you don't because of the sarcasm. If you want to have a serious discussion address my points without insults. If not, I will not reply.​

I call bull ****.
you are so hung up over the phrase "homosexual actions" you cannot even bring your self to type it out, let alone define it.

But since honest discussion of the topic bothers you so much, I shall leave you be.

Hope you can get a grip on your problem someday.

have nice day.

 

[Demonslayer]

What is the difference between "same-sex actions" and "homosexual actions" other than you personal dislike of the phrase "homosexual actions"?

The way I see it is this:

Same sex actions are actions that occur between people of the same sex, who are not necessarily homosexual.

Homosexual actions could be any actions taken by someone with a homosexual orientation.

Examples. I'm a straight man. I could give another straight man a hand job and it would be a same sex action but not a homosexual action.

A homosexual couple could play badminton and it would technically be a homosexual action.

I'm not sure it matters really, but there is a subtle difference.

I think the main reason for pointing it out is because a lot of people...religious people mostly...try to say sexual orientation is a choice because you can choose to act on it or not. They claim that by avoiding same sex acts, that would make someone not homosexual. Which of course is untrue...a homosexual person may never have sex at all, and they would still be homosexual. Where two straight people could perform sex acts on each other and still be heterosexual.

The idea is that the act and the orientation are not necessarily linked, though they obviously very often coexist.

 

[Quintessence]

Eh, I've been staying out of this thread, but apparently all these words we use to describe these things are worthless.