"lazy poor"/"lazy welfare"

[MoonWater]

In the thread "republican war on women" we briefly got into a debate about the poor and welfare that I wanted to continue discussion on so here I am creating another thread.

Essentially the assertion was made (or at least this is how I read it) that welfare makes people dependent on the government and the only people who really use it are lazy people and that the government is enabling these people to be lazy by providing welfare. Also that people are primarily poor because they are lazy and not working hard enough or that there should be no dignity in being poor.

You can read peruse the thread starting on page 26 and it ends by page 28 if you want to get a better idea of what's already been brought up.

Basically this is to discuss people's thoughts on welfare and being poor in general.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

People who say "people on welfare are lazy and dependent" obviously display two things:

1) They were never on welfare themselves
2) Perhaps through media or judge "ghetto behavior" correlating it to those who are on government assistance.

Its ironic, students that depend on government assistance while trying to attain a degree are not seen as lazy but those who need welfare due to unforseen financial circumstances are considered lazy. There are many college students that are on welfare. There are many lazy people on welfare. There are mental disabled people on welfare. How can we determine laziness among these groups?

 

[Reverend Rick]

If you spend half your day in bed and it is not your honeymoon, you might be lazy.
If getting dressed is optional for you, you might be lazy.
If your stove has not been used in weeks or even months, you might be lazy.
If you have never earned a paycheck in your life, you might be lazy.
If you have no use for an alarm clock, you might be lazy.
If your butt is larger than your doorway, you might be lazy.
If you have had no need to wear shoes, (flip flops don't count) you might be lazy.
If you never had the wonderful experience of having a boss, you might be lazy.
If you only go to your mailbox once a month, you might be lazy.
If you know every actors name on soap operas, you might be lazy.
If mothers day comes 12 months a year for you, you might be lazy.
If you ignored job offers before, you might be lazy.
If you don't know what day of the week it is, you might be lazy.
If the only clothes that fit you are sweat pants and t-shirts, you might be lazy.
If you don't have a bank account, you might be lazy.
If the only book in your house is a phone book, you might be lazy.
If you can't remember the last time you saw your toes, you might be lazy.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

What does all of that have to do with welfare?

 

[Alex_G]

In the thread "republican war on women" we briefly got into a debate about the poor and welfare that I wanted to continue discussion on so here I am creating another thread.

Essentially the assertion was made (or at least this is how I read it) that welfare makes people dependent on the government and the only people who really use it are lazy people and that the government is enabling these people to be lazy by providing welfare. Also that people are primarily poor because they are lazy and not working hard enough or that there should be no dignity in being poor.

You can read peruse the thread starting on page 26 and it ends by page 28 if you want to get a better idea of what's already been brought up.

Basically this is to discuss people's thoughts on welfare and being poor in general.

I think that welfare is a very powerful force for good for many people. Its presence helps provide a quality of life for those in unfortunate circumstances that would otherwise be completely unreachable. However as with most systems nothing is perfect, and i do think that, although the huge good it does to many people, there are some side effects, one of which being it providing an environment in which people have the capacity to be less proactive, ambitious or responsible. Or rather those who are already of such disposition might thrive. Of course this is just an abuse of the system, and a minority of people fit such a description, but it no doubt is still there, worth noting.


There are people who cruise along on the back of such aid, and especially as new generations are born, ethos and perspectives get easily passed on, with people just plugging into the system as it might be all they know, creating a stagnant society who simply understanding welfare as an end goal rather than a stepping stone or helping hand. Poverty is unfortunate, literally. It’s unfair. Laziness, self-respect, views on responsibility and authenticity are parts of a person’s character, fashioned by many factors, one important one being education, (both from school, peers and family) that in my opinion is severely lacking in our country with a lot to answer for. People who have less than admirable (+sustainable) outlooks on life, what their responsibilities are and what is owed to them and so forth might be created by a much bigger beast than welfare, but its unavoidable that such characters could likely use such a system unjustly, which is a problem worth shining a light onto.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I have been on Food Stamps. They were a huge help.

But I like having earned money better.

 

[Falvlun]

I think there are some problems with our welfare system, such that it sometimes does penalize recipients for working more or making more money. (e.g. If person X works more days and therefore, her income bumps her up to the next bracket, she gets less welfare, but the extra money she is earning and/or having to spend for childcare is not making up for what she lost in welfare so it makes more sense for her to stay at her current level of income. "Harder work" is, in essence, penalized.

And I have to admit, it does irritate me that some people on welfare still seem to have money to go get their nails done and to be able to afford other luxuries. Other hardworking people not on welfare don't have that option.

But yes, in general, I do think that's an unfortunate stereotype to assume that if you are on welfare, you must be lazy. I don't think we as a society fully understand how hard it is to pull yourself up into a different economic tier. If you are born in the middleclass, you are likely going to remain in the middleclass (barring more conservative economics); you didn't earn that, you were born into it. Likewise, if you are born poor, you didn't do anything to deserve being poor (ie lazy); you just had the misfortune to be stuck there, in a country where it is very difficult to dig yourself out.

 

[Alceste]

It hasn't been my experience that the majority of people on some form of assistance are lazy. I think the stereotype of the lazy poor is media driven. Any time one welfare recipient who has wasted their dole money on cigarettes and Doritos can be dug up, it's front page news. Why? Because the rich folks who own the papers hate paying taxes.

There is also an element of circular perceptive bias at play, much like there is with gay people. You start with a stereotype, then assume everyone who fits it belongs to the category "homosexual" or "poor". This renders everyone who doesn't fit that stereotype invisible to you. The gay football player. The working poor. The lesbian supermodel. Etc. Even if those who lie outside the boundaries of your stereotype are a large majority, your stereotype is still affirmed by the fact that every now and then you see a really swishy homosexual, or a bull dyke, or a drunken pan handler.

There are lazy people in every economic group. Bush had more holidays in his first few months in office than I've had in years. Literally.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Well we should be ashamed of ourselves, we all know that the majority of wellfare recipients are fine upstanding pillars of society that display honesty, integrity and a work ethic unmatched by all others.

 

[MoonWater]

RR why do you assume that people only go on welfare because they are lazy or that people are only poor because they are lazy?

 

[Alceste]

RR why do you assume that people only go on welfare because they are lazy or that people are only poor because they are lazy?

Often, when people are very wealthy and trying to deal with the fact of economic injustice, it makes them feel better about their wealth to pretend it is entirely the result of superior virtue. That's been my observation, anyway.

 

[Alceste]

Well we should be ashamed of ourselves, we all know that the majority of wellfare recipients are fine upstanding pillars of society that display honesty, integrity and a work ethic unmatched by all others.

Why do you assume that because one groundless stereotype has been rejected, some other groundless stereotype must be immediately embraced?

Poor people could be anybody. Even you, if things go poorly.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Well we should be ashamed of ourselves, we all know that the majority of wellfare recipients are fine upstanding pillars of society that display honesty, integrity and a work ethic unmatched by all others.

Why go from one extreme stereotype to another?

I can only speak for myself and a few others I know. Circumstances can effect anyone. Some give up, some work their butts off.

The most visible are those that abuse the system.

 

[Alceste]

Why go from one extreme stereotype to another?

I can only speak for myself and a few others I know. Circumstances can effect anyone. Some give up, some work their butts off.

The most visible are those that abuse the system.

Agreed. I'm lazier now than I was on assistance. I've just discovered I make more money in two or three hours of teaching music than I ever did working in a normal job all day long. So I'm not doing anything else now. Just trying to grow my student base. I quit working normal jobs because they tie me up needlessly when I could be teaching, with the net effect that it costs me money to try to hold down a regular job. Compare that with last summer when I was juggling five part time jobs, working six days a week, and still barely making ends meet.

We all have it in us to be driven at some times and lazy at others. Our economic situation has nothing to do with it. For my part, I'm only going to work four hours a day from now on, and make twice as much as I did working fifty or sixty hours a week.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Agreed. I'm lazier now than I was on assistance. I've just discovered I make more money in two or three hours of teaching music than I ever did working in a normal job all day long. So I'm not doing anything else now. Just trying to grow my student base. I quit working normal jobs because they tie me up needlessly when I could be teaching, with the net effect that it costs me money to try to hold down a regular job. Compare that with last summer when I was juggling five part time jobs, working six days a week, and still barely making ends meet.

We all have it in us to be driven at some times and lazy at others. Our economic situation has nothing to do with it. For my part, I'm only going to work four hours a day from now on, and make twice as much as I did working fifty or sixty hours a week.

Oh, I'm the same way. I could never work for someone ever again. I come and go as I please, I work 12 hours some days and zero hours others. I try to do most of my work tues thru thur so I can head out to the lake on fridays and return on tuesday. Of course I have to be able to be reached, but sometimes I let folks leave me a message. I'm blessed to have people who handle things for me.

 

[McBell]

In the thread "republican war on women" we briefly got into a debate about the poor and welfare that I wanted to continue discussion on so here I am creating another thread.

Essentially the assertion was made (or at least this is how I read it) that welfare makes people dependent on the government and the only people who really use it are lazy people and that the government is enabling these people to be lazy by providing welfare. Also that people are primarily poor because they are lazy and not working hard enough or that there should be no dignity in being poor.

You can read peruse the thread starting on page 26 and it ends by page 28 if you want to get a better idea of what's already been brought up.

Basically this is to discuss people's thoughts on welfare and being poor in general.

The welfare system is in dire need of a major revamping.
There are people who get on welfare because their jobs went overseas, or were downsized, or whatever, who find that they cannot afford to get off welfare.

With welfare, you either get it all or you get nothing.
The system should actually help those who want off welfare to get off welfare instead of punishing them for trying.

As for the lazy being on welfare, how many of them were made that why by a system that refuses to help you other than tossing money and or food stamps to people?

 

[Reverend Rick]

As for the lazy being on welfare, how many of them were made that why by a system that refuses to help you other than tossing money and or food stamps to people?

Thank you Mestemia, you are exactly right. It is the systems fault. Thats why I hate big government. I don't hate poor people, I work at the food bank and the battered womens shelter. I'm not at war with women, we get them job interviews and polish their resume and even an interview suit. Perhaps they need a few classes or some training. We watch their children while they do this and off duty LE stay around in case the ex hubby decides to make trouble.

We actually help people help themselves. Why do we need a big building full of federal workers filling out forms when hungry people just drive up and we load their car. I ask them to drop off a box near where they live for older people who don't drive. People never complain. Your hungry, heres some food. Your driving down this road, stop off and deliver this other box please.

People helping people, so simple. Many people we help have got back on their feet and now help us. Thats the way it should be.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Well we should be ashamed of ourselves, we all know that the majority of wellfare recipients are fine upstanding pillars of society that display honesty, integrity and a work ethic unmatched by all others.

I was on welfare when I was laid off. Imagine recycling cans to pay for gas just to drive to apply for a job and recycling cans to pay for food. Welfare was a huge help when my stomach was empty...Give me a break!

 

[Mr. Skittles]

The welfare system is in dire need of a major revamping.
There are people who get on welfare because their jobs went overseas, or were downsized, or whatever, who find that they cannot afford to get off welfare.

With welfare, you either get it all or you get nothing.
The system should actually help those who want off welfare to get off welfare instead of punishing them for trying.

As for the lazy being on welfare, how many of them were made that why by a system that refuses to help you other than tossing money and or food stamps to people?[/quote]

laziness was not created because someone went on government assistance. Laziness was there prior to welfare recipients. Judging by the bold I will assume you've never been on welfare.

Let me educate you....

When you apply for welfare you fill out a long form (after you fill out the short form which explains what your current status is (jobless, homeless, etc). Then you fill out a long form, if I recall you give your name, age, address, your job status etc. Then you fill out whether you have a job and if you don't have a job whether you were fired, laied off, etc.

From my experience majority of the welfare recipients were either fired, or laid off, or suffer from some mental disability. You wait, wait, and wait some more until you speak to a representative. I can imagine that if you are fired or laid off you will not receive what is called "general relief." I am not sure of the exact definition on general relief but my understanding is that general relief assist people who are homeless by giving them vouchers for a hotel (approximately 2 weeks of stay) in addition supply them with bus tokens. In addition to the two, GR will also give you a certain amount of cash (usually $300) in addition you may receive anywhere from $200-300 in food stamps as Electronic Benefits Transfer or EBT.

The idea is is to support the individual and if the individual has kids the benefits are greater. So the question is where does this perception of laziness come from? There are many individuals who cant find jobs. Many students. Many mentally disabled people. What element as I addressed breeds laziness? If you can say the element provide some substantial support.

 

[ChristineES]

My autistic son is 19. He still goes to school to learn job skills and goes on job sites. He collects SSI. He is not lazy.
The few that are actually lazy make the rest who are not lazy but need help look bad.