LDS letter on same-sex marriage

[idea]

No, it isn't. It's the opposite of a fact. This is what I mean, idea, by being fundamentally dishonest. You take children of one-parent families, and use that data to smear good parenting by gay families, which has nothing to do with these single heterosexual parents.

I'll just invite everyone else in the thread to see what dishonesty a real opponent of gay parenting has to resort to.

I am not the one being dishonest. The study looked at everything -
The study found that it mattered little whether the child was rich or poor, black or white, born to a teen mother or an adult mother, or raised by parents with functional or dysfunctional marriages

the one common denom to all their probs - no father.

Again - do you know what a heterosexual is??? Do you know what our needs are???

no - not sexual molestation, that is what they seek when they don't have healthy attention.

[mod edit]

Heterosexual girls like to be told things like "they are pretty" from people of the opposite sex. Your mother saying "you are pretty" is great, but it does not mean as much as your father saying it, because heteros want that info from the opposite sex. It is different coming from dad than from mom.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

All of us heterosexuals are offended when you try to tell us "we will be fine with relashonships of the same sex"

Please don't speak for me.

 

[Riverwolf]

nICE REF - YOU HAVE A PERSON YOU KIND OF SORT OF KNOW WHO DID NOT HAVE A FATHER.

My mom is a social worker and dealss with hundreds of thousands of fatherless kids. There are hundreds of reports that document the emotional and even physical problems kids without fathers have - visa versa for hetero boys and mothers.

If you want to raise heterosexual kids (majority are) you need to understand their needs. Selfish of you to impose your beliefs and needs onto them.

Selfish of you to impose your needs and beliefs onto me. Apparently, you seem to believe that every single child in history needed the exact same things. Having worked with children of varying ages in the past, I know for a fact that this isn't true at all. I know my reference wasn't much. Doesn't mean I can't use it.

I do understand the needs of children. Love, food, water, attention. Basic needs of every human. Unlike many people, I don't separate children from adults. Our needs and theirs are the same.

 

[Starfish]

I found this helpful.
Why Children Need Father-Love and Mother-Love, Part 1

 

[Autodidact]

I am not the one being dishonest. The study looked at everything -
The study found that it mattered little whether the child was rich or poor, black or white, born to a teen mother or an adult mother, or raised by parents with functional or dysfunctional marriages

the one common denom to all their probs - no father.

Again - do you know what a heterosexual is??? Do you know what our needs are???

Really, it compared two-parent same sex families to two-parent different sex families? If not, then why are you talking about it here?

no - not sexual molestation, that is what they seek when they don't have healthy attention.

[mod edit]

Heterosexual girls like to be told things like "they are pretty" from people of the opposite sex. Your mother saying "you are pretty" is great, but it does not mean as much as your father saying it, because heteros want that info from the opposite sex. It is different coming from dad than from mom.

I'm guessing you don't have kids, am I right?

 

[idea]

I don't separate children from adults. Our needs and theirs are the same.

Exactly - would you tell a hetero adult "you don't need attention from the oppoite sex"? Would you tell me all I need are girlfriends - that girlfriends will fullfill all of my needs? I hope not, don't force that on kids either.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Exactly - would you tell a hetero adult "you don't need attention from the oppoite sex"? Would you tell me all I need are girlfriends - that girlfriends will fullfill all of my needs? I hope not, don't force that on kids either.

I wouldn't tell any adult "you must have attention from the opposite sex", either. I'd never presume to tell you that if you don't have male and female friends, not all your needs are being met.

Two fathers is one specific arrangement, as is two mothers, as is one mother and one father. No matter what choice gets made for the child or is dictated by circumstance, some particular set of parents is "forced" on kids.

 

[idea]

I'm guessing you don't have kids, am I right?

I am happily married with children. I am also a child of two loving parents. From personal experience, there are feminine things I needed from my mom (teach me about girly things, girls nights out, doing hair etc.) there are things I needed from my dad - to be a loving father, let me know I would be acceptable to other boys, what others boys thought and what to look out for, who boys are, what goes through their minds, how I should interact with them etc. etc... My mom is not a boy, she can guess as well as I can - I needed to know who boys were from a boy - a father who I could trust would be honest and had my best interests in mind... I definately needed both sides.

I have both male and female children - they each need something different from each of us. I made my hubby potty train our boy I don't have one of those things - let someone who has it teach them how to deal with it I trained our girls, anything else would have been weird - that is why there are boys and girls restrooms in public - just feels more comfortable... When we are out and about, I talk the girls to the girl restroom, he takes our boy when he needs to go - as males feel more comf around other males doing that sort of thing and visa versa. - and I do not trust my 3 and 2yos to go on their own in a public restroom with G** knows who else in there... When my daughters hit puberty, I am sure they will not be asking my husband any questions - how could he know what they are going through??? Sure, he can read books, but he has never been through it, never experienced it, what could he teach them they could not learn on wiki? and visa versa.

Kids needs moms and dads. That is a fact.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have both male and female children - they each need something different from each of us. I made my hubbt potty train our boy I trained our girls. When we are out and about, I talk the girls to the girl restroom, he takes our boy when he needs to go - as males feel more comf around other males doing that sort of thing and visa versa. - and I do not trust my 3 and 2yos to go on their own in a public restroom with G** knows who else in there... When my daughters hit puberty, I am sure they will not be asking my husband any questions - how could he know what they are going through??? Sure, he can read books, but he has never been through it, never experienced it, what could he teach them they could not learn on wiki? and visa versa.

Ah... so a gay couple would be perfect parents for a boy, and a lesbian couple would be perfect for a girl, right?

 

[idea]

No matter what choice gets made for the child or is dictated by circumstance, some particular set of parents is "forced" on kids.

All children are created by a male and a female. To take a child away from their parent is cruel.

Would you say "Your dad's a test tube"

or "you don't have a dad - you have a mom?"

would you take a child away from their parent?

 

[Starfish]

Ah... so a gay couple would be perfect parents for a boy, and a lesbian couple would be perfect for a girl, right?

We're not reading each other's posts.

 

[idea]

Ah... so a gay couple would be perfect parents for a boy, and a lesbian couple would be perfect for a girl, right?

We need BOTH not one or the other. My mom for girl stuff, my dad for boy stuff.

Perhaps the only nice child for homosex coule would be another homosex child of the same gender - even then you are taking them from one of their parents, and you prob can't tell if they are homosex at a young age, and everyone needs to learn how to deal with both sexes, just as everyone needs to know how to deal with all nations, peoples, etc...

Can you please explain to me how gay parents could explain puberty to a daughter? "That's OK hun - I know what you are going through, cramps hurt like hell" - Oh wait, I guess they have NO IDEA what she is going through, because they are not female.

 

[Reverend Rick]

WE ARE NATURALLY ATTRACTED TO A SPECIFIC SEX TOO - CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT??????

Actually, what you are attacted to has nothing to do with anything. If it did, someone could be attracted to young children, animals, or a knothole in the picket fence for that matter.

We could argue religion or interpretation of religious texts as well, but freedom of religion means all religions and for some folks, that means no religion at all.

In a free country, everyone should have equal rights. I should have a right to believe in a religion that condemns homosexuality all the while same sex couples should not have to live by my standards.

Inheritance, medical decisions, pensions, social security and the like is something we all should have. Two women or two men could share their lives together for 50 years but a young couple married for less than 6 months have superior rights to these same sex couples?

What our country needs is tolerance. Tolerance for the GLBT community AND tollerance for the religious right as well.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

All children are created by a male and a female. To take a parent away from a child is cruel.

Would you take a parent from their child?

Would you say "Your dadas a test tube"

or "you don't have a dad - you have a mom?"

would you take a child away from their parent?

Personally, I think that bringing a child up is more of a test of "parenthood" than just having offspring... and in that regard, a child raised by a same-sex couple hasn't had any parent taken away at all.

 

[Starfish]

Personally, I think that bringing a child up is more of a test of "parenthood" than just having offspring... and in that regard, a child raised by a same-sex couple hasn't had any parent taken away at all.

I agree with you on the test of parenthood. But the child might not agree. Many seek out their bio-parent--something I do, and don't, totally understand.

 

[idea]

Actually, what you are attacted to has nothing to do with anything.

So now you are an expert on who I am attracted to? I am attracted to my male husband - that is who I am attracted to, just FYI.

What our country needs is tolerance. Tolerance for the GLBT community AND tollerance for the religious right as well.

tolerance is different than pandering and supporting them with tax dollars, giving them our children to raise.

should we allow people to legally marry animals? knotholes? as you put it?

People can do what they want and I will not stop them if it does not hurt others. Forcing everyone to pay for it and support it, foring it into school education, is hurting others.

 

[idea]

I agree with you on the test of parenthood. But the child might not agree. Many seek out their bio-parent--something I do, and don't, totally understand.

yes, there are many great adopted parents. Do you think it would be right to have a child specifically to adopt them out though? accident vs meditated? I guess that is another sub... adopted kids are already going to have some questions etc... best to put them in the safest most balanced environ possible - one with a mom and dad. They have enough to deal with without having to add on LG step-parents.

 

[Father Heathen]

Exactly - would you tell a hetero adult "you don't need attention from the oppoite sex"? Would you tell me all I need are girlfriends - that girlfriends will fullfill all of my needs? I hope not, don't force that on kids either.

What the hell are you babbling incoherently on about? But nobody is doing that. Nobody is forcing anything on children.

 

[Starfish]

yes, there are many great adopted parents. Do you think it would be right to have a child specifically to adopt them out though? accident vs meditated? I guess that is another sub... adopted kids are already going to have some questions etc... best to put them in the safest most balanced environ possible - one with a mom and dad. They have enough to deal with without having to add on LG step-parents.

I don't think it's fair to the child to deliberately set them up to be raised w/o a mom or dad, or in any single-parent situation.

 

[Riverwolf]

Idea, no one is going to take your children away from you. Is that what you're afraid of?

And those "girly things" you mentioned, like doing hair, are not necessary. My GF doesn't do that, any more than I do, and I have hair about as long as she does. She doesn't use makeup, doesn't wear dresses much, heck, she buys mens' clothes because they're more comfortable. She's perfectly comfortable being that way. She was raised by both a father and a mother.

If I end up being a single father to a young daughter, I will help her through puberty as much as I can, but obviously there are things I won't be able to do, like teaching her how to use a tampon, for example. But it's not like there won't be anyone in the world who can't teach that. By the time she reaches that age, I will trust her friends to help her with that. Grown women probably don't remember what it was like going through puberty, but teens all are going through it together, and I think they should help each other, with us adults guiding them, but not by any means holding their hands, because they're no longer children by that point. And up to that point, there is no difference between a boy and girl. They look the same, sound the same, and talk the same. All the differences are "forced" upon them when they are young, such as girls wear dresses and play with barbie dolls, and boys wear pants and play with G.I. Joe action figures. None of that is natural. Now, as a child, I was very much a "growing macho-man" as I loved Power Rangers, and big things like that, and didn't like girls. I was like all the others, save for the fact that I was alone a lot and a magnet for bullies. (I'm a little autistic) But when I grew up, I became more feminine. And I like that. Okay, I'm getting a bit off track, but the point is, girls only need their moms if they are girly girls who do girly things. So that argument was not very convincing.

The point is, you don't have to agree with same-sex marriage, but don't deny them the same rights as everyone else. All the "problems" you think will happen because of it is, I'm sorry, paranoia. Those studies are paranoid by their nature, and have bias conclusions because of it. Just because a scientific study was conducted and a scientific conclusion was reached, doesn't mean at all that it is a scientific fact. The facts of the study could have been exaggerated, reworked, or simply not done with any care.