Leaving the EU has been a disaster for the UK

[Estro Felino]

They don't.

Don't tell me...
you know the Italian Constitution by heart?

 

[Estro Felino]

Has the Italian Constitutional Court ruled any EU treaties unconstitutional? Are there even any suits before them?

Article 11: the limitations of sovereignty aren't admissible, unless a treaty is based upon the principle of mutuality and juridical equality of all the parties.
Is there perfect equality among the EU member states, by chance?

 

[wellwisher]

From what I have seen in discussions and the below, more people actually think it was a bad decision to leave the EU:

Brexit poll 2024 | Statista

The share of people who regret Brexit has increased since the UK left the EU. Recent polls show a growing majority think it was the wrong decision.

www.statista.com

One in five who voted for Brexit now think it was the wrong decision | YouGov

The wider public now think Britain was wrong to leave the European Union by 56% to 32%

yougov.co.uk

The biggest problem with UK leaving the EU has been the success of opposition propaganda machine. In the USA, the Democrats, who pushed the EU, who are now in power. To get there they lied about the Russian Collusion hoax and divide the USA because of this shady con job. The similar strategy happened after Brexit; European birds of a feather. In the US, they got caught but doubled down on new lies.

It is one thing for the Brexit experiment to go sour in an organic way; good college try. It is another thing for the other side to lie and cheat to create the illusion the sky is falling; generate fear, division and obstruction. It reminds me of a nagging wife who is trying to change her husband's mind, after he makes a good decision that she feels undermine her power. He was suppose dot say yes dear to make things stay smooth. But since he did not, her insecurities, will try to make his life miserable with black mail and and gossip, so in the end, the right thing has a lot of extra costs.

From an American POV, COVID also divided the US, in terms of how the two political parties dealt with the pandemic. The political left in the USA, that hated Brexit, shut down their state economies and schools; dumb down, based on promoting fear. The political right in the USA, that agrees with Brexit, which felt there is nothing to fear but fear itself, decided to stay open.

In the end, both approaches worked the similar, in terms of success with the pandemic. However, the ways of the Left had dire consequences and messed up the US economy leading to the current recession. If you look today, those states that stayed open and did not cave to the fear mongering, is what is keeping the ship afloat. While the political left, that closed down the economy; with strategic fear mongering, has created supply and inflation problems for the whole country.

The Left got back into power because of this stunt, but Biden and the Left has made the situation worse due to harming the economy further with the Globalist climate change scam; kill fossil fuels to add inflation before EV is ready. It is hard to isolate the impact of the Lefty boneheads states in the USA, since we are all connected, like the EU. Left wing Propaganda tries to spin it as everyone else's fault, since lying and bad choices is what they do best. This happened in Europe. Make good choices and do not let the nags create doubt.

The UK was a world empire for many centuries. Why dumb that initiative down in favor of centralized socialism led by people who do understand success. If you recall that was one of the reasons the UK left. Has the Political left dumbed down England enough to con them into believing that they can do better working at half brain speed?

Polling is one way to lie to people, since leading questions by questionable propaganda people can get any answer they want. In the US, the political Left also invaded the schools and used Government to label parents as domestic terrorists for being concerned for the children they raise. Children were expelled for resisting indoctrination. Luckily, there is now , based on the success of those Right wing states, that did the right thing. This push back now has the Left off balance, since they were depending on force feeding their illusions, as the country foundered.

Wait it out and the tide will turn. You need to do what the Right side of America did, which was take the fight to the con artists and beat then at that own games. Don't turn the other cheek, but learn to counter punch. Watch how the Left in the US is besides itself. Imagine if they are allowed to screw up the world?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Don't tell me...
you know the Italian Constitution by heart?

I don't need to.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Article 11: the limitations of sovereignty aren't admissible, unless a treaty is based upon the principle of mutuality and juridical equality of all the parties.
Is there perfect equality among the EU member states, by chance?

1. Yes. These rules are the same for everyone.

2. you didn't actually answer his question. His question was "Has the Italian Constitutional Court ruled any EU treaties unconstitutional?".
So he asked if there was an official ruling establishing this. He didn't ask for your personal and unqualified interpretation / opinion

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes.

Not de facto.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Not de facto.

Making trade policy

Trade outside the EU is an exclusive responsibility of the EU, rather than the national governments of member countries

policy.trade.ec.europa.eu

Trade policy and agreements – EU action | European Union

The EU is responsible for the trade policy of its member countries, and negotiates agreements on their behalf. It also works with the WTO. Find out more.

european-union.europa.eu

Please point out where it states that member states aren't treated equally when it comes to trade deals.
Where does it state that some countries can make trade deals by themselves with non-EU countries while others can't.
Or give an example where such has happened.


All you do is throw accusations around. Hot air.

 

[Estro Felino]

Making trade policy

Trade outside the EU is an exclusive responsibility of the EU, rather than the national governments of member countries

policy.trade.ec.europa.eu

Trade policy and agreements – EU action | European Union

The EU is responsible for the trade policy of its member countries, and negotiates agreements on their behalf. It also works with the WTO. Find out more.

european-union.europa.eu

Please point out where it states that member states aren't treated equally when it comes to trade deals.
Where does it state that some countries can make trade deals by themselves with non-EU countries while others can't.

Explain me why the Bundesbank has the 21% of the ECB stakes.
More than anyone else.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Explain me why the Bundesbank has the 21% of the ECB stakes.
More than anyone else.

You are all over the place. We were talking about your claim that Italy could and should make trade deals with the UK while bypassing the EU.
You claimed the EU rules regarding such were in contradiction with Italian constitution.

Can you stick to a topic and see it through before derailing into something else?


Having said that, I have no clue about banking and rules....
But considering your posting history and fascist populist tendencies which misrepresent EU policy and member rights / responsibilities... I'm going to go ahead and assume that this ECB stuff is just more of the same.

Make your case with evidence and links to official EU and German documents.
Without it, I'm just going to view it as just more of the same populist misrepresentations on your part.

Do you know the story of the boy that cried wolf?
Well, you're that boy at the moment if it turns out that your accusation concerning the Bundesbank / ECB being a violation of EU rules is indeed correct.

 

[Mock Turtle]

The biggest problem with UK leaving the EU has been the success of opposition propaganda machine. In the USA, the Democrats, who pushed the EU, who are now in power. To get there they lied about the Russian Collusion hoax and divide the USA because of this shady con job. The similar strategy happened after Brexit; European birds of a feather. In the US, they got caught but doubled down on new lies.

It is one thing for the Brexit experiment to go sour in an organic way; good college try. It is another thing for the other side to lie and cheat to create the illusion the sky is falling; generate fear, division and obstruction. It reminds me of a nagging wife who is trying to change her husband's mind, after he makes a good decision that she feels undermine her power. He was suppose dot say yes dear to make things stay smooth. But since he did not, her insecurities, will try to make his life miserable with black mail and and gossip, so in the end, the right thing has a lot of extra costs.

From an American POV, COVID also divided the US, in terms of how the two political parties dealt with the pandemic. The political left in the USA, that hated Brexit, shut down their state economies and schools; dumb down, based on promoting fear. The political right in the USA, that agrees with Brexit, which felt there is nothing to fear but fear itself, decided to stay open.

In the end, both approaches worked the similar, in terms of success with the pandemic. However, the ways of the Left had dire consequences and messed up the US economy leading to the current recession. If you look today, those states that stayed open and did not cave to the fear mongering, is what is keeping the ship afloat. While the political left, that closed down the economy; with strategic fear mongering, has created supply and inflation problems for the whole country.

The Left got back into power because of this stunt, but Biden and the Left has made the situation worse due to harming the economy further with the Globalist climate change scam; kill fossil fuels to add inflation before EV is ready. It is hard to isolate the impact of the Lefty boneheads states in the USA, since we are all connected, like the EU. Left wing Propaganda tries to spin it as everyone else's fault, since lying and bad choices is what they do best. This happened in Europe. Make good choices and do not let the nags create doubt.

The UK was a world empire for many centuries. Why dumb that initiative down in favor of centralized socialism led by people who do understand success. If you recall that was one of the reasons the UK left. Has the Political left dumbed down England enough to con them into believing that they can do better working at half brain speed?

Polling is one way to lie to people, since leading questions by questionable propaganda people can get any answer they want. In the US, the political Left also invaded the schools and used Government to label parents as domestic terrorists for being concerned for the children they raise. Children were expelled for resisting indoctrination. Luckily, there is now , based on the success of those Right wing states, that did the right thing. This push back now has the Left off balance, since they were depending on force feeding their illusions, as the country foundered.

Wait it out and the tide will turn. You need to do what the Right side of America did, which was take the fight to the con artists and beat then at that own games. Don't turn the other cheek, but learn to counter punch. Watch how the Left in the US is besides itself. Imagine if they are allowed to screw up the world?

Well that is one view from outside the UK. Many inside the UK would view the tactics used as to leaving the EU as mostly being deceptive (appealing to the masses), even given the successful campaign prevailing, since there were more lies and rhetoric used by those proselytising such but not informing as to the problems and issues that this would (not might) cause. Not notice these?

If one thinks that getting the bulk of produce necessary from as far away as possible rather than from one's nearest neighbours is sensible then perhaps a psychiatrist might be recommended (Global warming not ring a bell - as to excess travel?). Similarly, restricting travel and work in one's nearest neighbours' countries is equally daft, when it was much more free before our exit. And where a large essential source of our workforce came from.

The UK had its time and should accept such, just as most other nations have done so too. Why would anyone dwell on the past and even cling to such when the future beckons, and those without the baggage from the past will be the ones to enable our future. So, bye bye religions and all the other things that tend to hold us back - like monarchies, elitism, wealth gaps, capitalism (that seemingly ignores what the planet can sustain), and most other things that tend to place barriers between peoples.

 

[Estro Felino]

You are all over the place. We were talking about your claim that Italy could and should make trade deals with the UK while bypassing the EU.
You claimed the EU rules regarding such were in contradiction with Italian constitution.

Can you stick to a topic and see it through before derailing into something else?


Having said that, I have no clue about banking and rules....
But considering your posting history and fascist populist tendencies which misrepresent EU policy and member rights / responsibilities... I'm going to go ahead and assume that this ECB stuff is just more of the same.

Make your case with evidence and links to official EU and German documents.
Without it, I'm just going to view it as just more of the same populist misrepresentations on your part.

Do you know the story of the boy that cried wolf?
Well, you're that boy at the moment if it turns out that your accusation concerning the Bundesbank / ECB being a violation of EU rules is indeed correct.

You brought up EU rules, because all this conversation started because you implied that Britain cannot make bilateral agreements with the EU member states.
That's not true. I am sorry.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You brought up EU rules, because all this conversation started because you implied that Britain cannot make bilateral agreements with the EU member states.
That's not true. I am sorry.

Why can't you be honest?
Anybody can go back and read your drivel:

With all due respect, Italy is a sovereign nation and if the Italian State wants to engage in a strong commercial partnership with Britain, nobody has the authority to prevent her from doing it.

Italy will do whatever she wants.

And we don't need Brussels' authorization for anything.
Not even to make a treaty with Britain.
So "Italy is in the EU" means nothing.

 

[Flankerl]

Can you stick to a topic and see it through before derailing into something else?

No that's the entire shtick.
Without it the house of cards falls apart.

Again: Fascists do what fascists do best.

 

[Estro Felino]

Why can't you be honest?
Anybody can go back and read your drivel:

In 2024 there will be European elections.
I suggest the technocratic élites to move out from Brussels and to choose some heavenly island of the Pacific as place of retirement.
Because after 2024 the face of Europe will change completely: the nationalistic drift is unstoppable.

 

[Flankerl]

Opinion Poll on the European Parliament Elections 2024

28 Apr 2023

Polling Org.	Date	Area	The Left (Left-wing to far-Left)	S&D (Centre-left)	GFA (Centre-eft to Left-wing)	Renew (Centre)	EPP (Centre-right)	ECR (Right-Wing)	ID (Right-wing to far-right)	NI (Members of the European Parliament who do not belong to one of the recognised political groups.)	Others
Europe Elects	28 Apr 2023	EU27	51	141	49	89	163	85	64	51	11
Der Föderalist	27 Mar 2023	EU27	44	137	42	94	162	78	68	38	42
	3 Mar 2021	Hungary's	Fidesz	Party	leaves	the	EPP	group	and joins	NI
Der Föderalist	2 Feb 2021	EU27	52	135	45	94	184	70	71	21	33
Europe Elects	5 Jan 2021	EU27	55	138	47	97	190	73	72	22	11
Europe Elects	31 Jan 2020	EU27	55	130	53	101	182	70	85	23	6
	31 Jan 2020	The	UK	leaves	the	EU
Europe Elects	31 Dec 2019	EU27	54	131	52	102	182	70	86	25	3
Redistribution of seats after Brexit	1 Feb 2020	EU27	40	148	68	97	187	62	76	27	-
2019 European Parliament election	26 May 2019	EU28	41	154	74	108	182	62	73	57	-

Wow it's totally happening guys.
The Fascists open their mouths, they lie.

 

[exchemist]

Opinion Poll on the European Parliament Elections 2024

28 Apr 2023

Polling Org.	Date	Area	The Left (Left-wing to far-Left)	S&D (Centre-left)	GFA (Centre-eft to Left-wing)	Renew (Centre)	EPP (Centre-right)	ECR (Right-Wing)	ID (Right-wing to far-right)	NI (Members of the European Parliament who do not belong to one of the recognised political groups.)	Others
Europe Elects	28 Apr 2023	EU27	51	141	49	89	163	85	64	51	11
Der Föderalist	27 Mar 2023	EU27	44	137	42	94	162	78	68	38	42
	3 Mar 2021	Hungary's	Fidesz	Party	leaves	the	EPP	group	and joins	NI
Der Föderalist	2 Feb 2021	EU27	52	135	45	94	184	70	71	21	33
Europe Elects	5 Jan 2021	EU27	55	138	47	97	190	73	72	22	11
Europe Elects	31 Jan 2020	EU27	55	130	53	101	182	70	85	23	6
	31 Jan 2020	The	UK	leaves	the	EU
Europe Elects	31 Dec 2019	EU27	54	131	52	102	182	70	86	25	3
Redistribution of seats after Brexit	1 Feb 2020	EU27	40	148	68	97	187	62	76	27	-
2019 European Parliament election	26 May 2019	EU28	41	154	74	108	182	62	73	57	-

Wow it's totally happening guys.
The Fascists open their mouths, they lie.

I think you need to add some words of explanation as to what you think this table shows.

 

[RestlessSoul]

On the plus side, we got our country back.

Our green and pleasant land is now become an open sewer awash with effluent and prejudice. Was there ever a more apt metaphor for the state of a nation, than privatised water companies pumping **** into our rivers and our coastline?

 

[Flankerl]

I think you need to add some words of explanation as to what you think this table shows.

Why?
Is the concept of opinion polls and parties not a thing where you are from?

It literally says "Opinion Poll on the European Parliament Elections 2024".

What could it possibly mean.

 

[exchemist]

Why?
Is the concept of opinion polls and parties not a thing where you are from?

It literally says "Opinion Poll on the European Parliament Elections 2024".

What could it possibly mean.

You have not explained what you think is the significance of the table you posted.

What point are you making, by posting this table for us to read?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In 2024 there will be European elections.
I suggest the technocratic élites to move out from Brussels and to choose some heavenly island of the Pacific as place of retirement.
Because after 2024 the face of Europe will change completely: the nationalistic drift is unstoppable.

More (populistic) drivel and schoolyard bs.

And off course, another attempt at running from the point made. This reply literally had NOTHING to do with the post you are replying to.

It's like talking to Trump.