Legalize Marijuana?

[DarkSun]

Why are you laughng to that? I think it is exactly the comparison you need..

I need it?

Comparing marijuana to coffee is like comparing death by lethal injection to being eaten alive by ants.

 

[Stellify]

it reveals the fact that the study may have been intentionally biased and purposely distorted in its inception.

Would just like to point out that most studies are biased and distorted. Both pro- and anti-marijuana studies. Neither is free of prejudice.

Also, you don't have to make the script huge to emphasize your point. We can still read it if it's normal

Stellify,
Good decision to leave morality out, because the legalization of marijuana has none of it,

I left out morality because you and I have very different ideas of what morality entails. And the deeper meanings and consequences behind all of it which I have attempted a few times to explain and discuss are quite obviously beyond your capability to encompass: as evidenced by your previous posts.

now let get on with the others, you wrote: “The tax payers that would be bearing the cost would be the people choosing to smoke it, sell it, grow it, etc. And they would do so with the full knowledge that they would have to pay extra taxes for it. I see no problem with that, just as I see no problem with the taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.”
Not so, from what I know of your present health care system employers pay for the health and dental insurance of the people that they employ is part of your earning, if people became unhealthy the premiums cost will rise, right?

I can't speak for all insurance companies, but most people have a portion of their paycheck taken out every pay-period that goes to their insurance plan. Many insurance companies base rates off of your current health, previous health, and your status as a smoker/drinker. I assume they would do the same and include marijuana in their figures if it were made legal.

I base this on what you said “I think that there would probably be an increase in consumption among the older marijuana-using demographic” so an increase in risk taking in the health of their employee=higher premiums, an increase in the cost of employing good/productive workers, the older demographic pot head would be the experienced one won’t it? The cost of replacing an experienced worker is higher than those coming for the younger mob, right?

I'm sorry, I suppose I should have been more specific. When I said "older" I mean "of age". In other words, adults as opposed to children. This would include everyone legally able to smoke (so 21 and up, perhaps?). So it's not as though it would be all the experienced workers. Actually, I imagine that out of the "of age" group of smokers, it would be the ones toward the younger end of the spectrum that would smoke the most.
People in higher positions with more responsibility tend to be the types that would avoid the kind of heavy marijuana usage that would get in the way of their jobs, imo.

You say: “Well, right now, people (or their insurance) pay for their own health care”. so. I guess that means that only the smokers would need a bigger budget, eh? No so your employer or your parent employer would have to fork out more money for their premiums, and unless marijuana makes them more productive the employer will go bankrupt. And a substance that does the opposite wont do it. The impact is the same, pot- head are burden to society, an ever increasing one.

See earlier part of post.

You ask: What issues are you talking about that have arisen from tax increases? People that are hooked on drugs use more and more of it to get the same effect that they got at the start of their vice, they are unhealthy and burden those that employ them, it make no difference to a nationalized service either. How much of peoples incomes is spent on these make me feel happy drugs? Does it stay the same over the years? Ask an alcoholic or a chain smoker of cigarettes.

Does it matter how much of their incomes would go to marijuana?
And, as I have said (to you specifically) more times than I can count, you CAN NOT compare marijuana and alcohol or marijuana and cigarettes. They are just too different.
Also, as I have said (and will say again), marijuana tolerance can easily be restored to almost pre-using levels by abstaining for a few days. Not only that, but in many cases experienced smokers can get a high faster, having used less of the drug, because the amount of THC in their system is given a boost by the newly-introduced THC. Also, smoking habits can allow more experienced smokers to use their weed more economically.

Today caffeine, tomorrow he could be strangling prostitutes and mutilating their corpses.

Remind me to frubal you for this later :biglaugh:

 

[BucephalusBB]

I need it?

Comparing marijuana to coffee is like comparing death by lethal injection to being eaten alive by ants.

Wich is nonesense if you are discussing ethics indeed. But very usefull if you are discussing death in general and all the other person knows is being eaten by ants. (or lethal injection, I don't know wich one you saw as caffeinne)

Like I said, what you need..

 

[England my lionheart]

Marijuana and caffeine are a good comparison the only difference is i find caffeine addictive and i reach for the Coffee cup in the morning to get me started and if you ever visit Amsterdam the Caf'es serve both Marijuana and Coffee.
Marijuana is just a weed and there are many different plants and Fungi that are not illegal and far more potent so i cannot see the problem with allowing people to grow their own.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My experiences have been very negative because of the type of work that I do, sadly I meet them at their worst, in the middle of a panic attack, paranoia or out of control and aggressive, we have a team called the green team or the aggression management team, there are 6 to 8 nurses that attend to a call for assistance, the psychotic patient must be persuaded to take an anti-psychotic medication, a negotiation take place, when that fails the supervisor, will signal the team that negotiation has fail and the person is subdue and injectable anti-psychotic are administered, this is the saddest of our duties and as soon as the patient gain control debriefing take place, most of the patient relate to us that they never thought that it could happen to them, they though that they could control it, but they got hook on it, and every time they increased the amount to get to that point of euphoria, till they find themselves in mental hospital, brought in by the police that is called by a love one, some learn the lesson other comeback again and again. I quitted cigarettes smoking twice , the fist time lasted 12 years and I have not smoked cigarettes for more than fifteen years this time around, quitting ain’t easy (I know it from personal experience) but is worth while attempting it, many times if necessary. Collecting government revenues from the trade of this substance, is immoral.

A study has been done, that only showed that the group of pot smokers have 40% higher chance of developing a mental illness. But, the study could not prove that it was the marijuana causing it.

But Professor Leslie Iverson, from the University of Oxford, said there was still no conclusive evidence that cannabis use causes psychotic illness.
“Their prediction that 14% of psychotic outcomes in young adults in the UK may be due to cannabis use is not supported by the fact that the incidence of schizophrenia has not shown any significant change in the past 30 years.”
​

Cannabis Use, Psychosis Risk and Basic Science

 

[Shadow Wolf]

My experiences have been very negative because of the type of work that I do, sadly I meet them at their worst, in the middle of a panic attack, paranoia or out of control and aggressive, we have a team called the green team or the aggression management team, there are 6 to 8 nurses that attend to a call for assistance, the psychotic patient must be persuaded to take an anti-psychotic medication, a negotiation take place, when that fails the supervisor, will signal the team that negotiation has fail and the person is subdue and injectable anti-psychotic are administered, this is the saddest of our duties and as soon as the patient gain control debriefing take place, most of the patient relate to us that they never thought that it could happen to them, they though that they could control it, but they got hook on it, and every time they increased the amount to get to that point of euphoria, till they find themselves in mental hospital, brought in by the police that is called by a love one, some learn the lesson other comeback again and again. I quitted cigarettes smoking twice , the fist time lasted 12 years and I have not smoked cigarettes for more than fifteen years this time around, quitting ain’t easy (I know it from personal experience) but is worth while attempting it, many times if necessary. Collecting government revenues from the trade of this substance, is immoral.

Ya know, if we was discussing cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, or amphetamines in general, I would believe you.

 

[Father Heathen]

Read what has been posted so far and you’ll find that this was discussed pretty early, marijuana is not a victim-less vice DS shared personal experiences with us, read boy, read.:shout

I read them, but I don't recall seeing anything at all that showed how smoking marijuana directly victimizes someone else. Perhaps you could explain to me how it does? Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[Father Heathen]

Hahahaha.

You're comparing marijuana to caffeine?

Really, how is there any comparison?

Yeah, I guess it is a silly comparison since habitual caffeine consumption is more addicting and a bigger health risk.

 

[DarkSun]

Wich is nonesense if you are discussing ethics indeed. But very usefull if you are discussing death in general and all the other person knows is being eaten by ants. (or lethal injection, I don't know wich one you saw as caffeinne)

Like I said, what you need..

I need lethal injection? Or do I need to be picked to pieces by ants? :sarcastic

 

[Stellify]

...This thread makes me face-palm a lot.

 

[BucephalusBB]

I need lethal injection? Or do I need to be picked to pieces by ants? :sarcastic

Are you doing this on prupose? You need to switch to caffeinne in your thoughts. You need to see that they do look alike. You came with the ant-example, not me..

 

[DarkSun]

Yeah, I guess it is a silly comparison since habitual caffeine consumption is more addicting and a bigger health risk.

Really? Caffeine has a larger health risk?

Could you please show me a reference which supports this. Besides the Erowid vault.

Because I would have thought that THC was a more potent psycho-active than caffeine. And when you look at the effects that caffeine has in comparison to those of THC, I get the impression that THC has a more drastic effect on you.

With caffeine, the worst that's going to happen is that you can't stand still all day.

With Marijuana, it is proven that short-term memory is affected even two days after its use. And people have almost no control over their actions when high. Supposedly this is a good thing?

 

[DarkSun]

Are you doing this on prupose? You need to switch to caffeinne in your thoughts. You need to see that they do look alike. You came with the ant-example, not me..

Yes.

And what's wrong with the ant example? :sad:

 

[BucephalusBB]

And people have almost no control over their actions when high.

This!
This is exactly the reason why you should start thinking in "caffeinne".
What you just said belongs in a hollywoodmovie. And a bad one as well..

 

[DarkSun]

This!
This is exactly the reason why you should start thinking in "caffeinne".
What you just said belongs in a hollywoodmovie. And a bad one as well..

What I said was told to me by my mother's friend, K, my second cousin, L, and various other people. They were aware of themselves when high, but they had no control.

Evidently, everything I say belongs in a hollywood movie. I don't think you realise how little TV I watch.

 

[misanthropic_clown]

Actually, I've come in after a housemate has fallen asleep after smoking marijuana, and he had left the fridge door open, the hamster out in his ball (jammed in a corner too, the poor thing) and the kettle on, as well as lots of mess.

Not saying any of the above was dangerous, but I do think that it causes carelessness, which could cause an accident.

But actually, I stand on the legalisation side, because if alcohol is legal, I don't see how marijuana could be justified as posing a greater danger. Said housemate has done far more stupid things when drunk than high.

 

[England my lionheart]

Really? Caffeine has a larger health risk?

Could you please show me a reference which supports this. Besides the Erowid vault.

Because I would have thought that THC was a more potent psycho-active than caffeine. And when you look at the effects that caffeine has in comparison to those of THC, I get the impression that THC has a more drastic effect on you.

With caffeine, the worst that's going to happen is that you can't stand still all day.

With Marijuana, it is proven that short-term memory is affected even two days after its use. And people have almost no control over their actions when high. Supposedly this is a good thing?

This almost no control myth is just that a myth brought about by that silly Movie Reefer,many Artists use Marijuana so if you had "no control" you would never get the brush on the canvas.
There are many prescribed drugs that are far worse than even Cocaine in the long term and they are legally obtained.
Coffee as mentioned before is very addictive and most of Europe and America would'nt function without it.

 

[DarkSun]

This almost no control myth is just that a myth brought about by that silly Movie Reefer,many Artists use Marijuana so if you had "no control" you would never get the brush on the canvas.
There are many prescribed drugs that are far worse than even Cocaine in the long term and they are legally obtained.
Coffee as mentioned before is very addictive and most of Europe and America would'nt function without it.

You are "aware" of what you're doing; it's just that your cognitive functions are impaired.

If it really is a myth, then I can name at least four people who must have been lying to me for no reason...
And I'm against coffee too. But I thought this thread was about marijuana. :sarcastic

 

[DarkSun]

To be or not to be:William Shakespeare
To be is to exist: Aristotle

Hey, I know this is a bit off-topic, but....

...

Isn't it funny how those are two very different statements?

 

[DarkVamp]

Should marijuana be made legal in the US and if so, would it change your mind on whether you would use marijuana?

I think all drugs should be legalized and monitored by the Government.
UK can learn alot from Sweden when it comes to laws on drugs