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Less than 1% of the over 250 million cars are EV's

exchemist

Veteran Member
There's EV stations at grocery stores here, but nobody is going to want to hang around for hours at a grocer while it charges. It needs to be broadly available at homes and workplaces.

You'd also have to pass legislature requiring apartments to do the upgrades, or funding for the city to do it. And real incentives for the public to buy well made practical EVs instead of luxury mobiles or gutless wonders which won't work as family cars.

I'm not opposed to EVs, they just need to actually be practical. And a lot of the solutions for environmental crisis we've been pushing through barely make a dent in actual numbers because we only look at home use and not the much bigger problems of goods and services. E.g. manufacture and shipping, food waste, point of origin power still being dirty, etc. Shutting down Amazon would do more for the environment than getting everyone in EVs.
No it wouldn't.

All you are doing is stating the obvious issues that need to be solved. We need to get on and start solving them, not just whine about how hard it all is. And many countries are doing that, even if the US is too feeble and disorganised (not helped by a States' Rights - minded Supreme Court that seems to want to make it hard for the Executive to get anything done).
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
How do you propse to get the hydrogen?
There is "green" hydrogen from electrolysis of water, using electricity, or "blue" hydrogen from steam reforming of natural gas, with capture of the CO2 produced as a byproduct: CH4 + 2H2O -> 4H2 + CO2
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
But I notice that peak demand in the US is NOT overnight at present. On the contrary, that is when electricity is cheapest. So all your EV owner needs is a time switch on his charger, and then the peak charging time will align with what is now the period of least demand. So it could be something that smooths out the peaks, potentially. But I have not done the sums on how much power would be needed if all vehicles were EVs, so I don't know how that would compare with the rest of the domestic electricity demand. Also, as solar becomes more important, there may no longer be such a surplus of generation at night. So, a lot of moving parts.
I'd have to find the episode, but in Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson gave such numbers for the UK to switch over. Even there they will need more power plants.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I'd have to find the episode, but in Top Gear Jeremy Clarkson gave such numbers for the UK to switch over. Even there they will need more power plants.
When I last checked the UK got 25% of its electricity from renewables. It may be slightly higher now. There's a long way to go. But we'll never get to 100% because of the intermittency problem. 50-60% is possibly the max, with the rest from nuclear as far as possible, plus a bit of gas for peaks.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Imagine living in remote Australia where one drives 600Km to go to the city for a day trip, a 1200km round trip.

The current idea of battery cars, with the current technology is not sustainable, nor practicable.

Regards Tony
So what? That is a very very small number. There are alternatives. Hydrogen is another technology. Sooner or later there will be no gasoline or petrol. What would those people do then?

That has to be one of the worst arguments ever against EV's.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
So what? That is a very very small number. There are alternatives. Hydrogen is another technology. Sooner or later there will be no gasoline or petrol. What would those people do then?

That has to be one of the worst arguments ever against EV's.

There will be better technologies. When we start working as a unified humanity.

Regards Tony
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Spot-on. I get so sick of people putting up arguments for putting it off. We need to back a range of technologies and see which ones win out.
And I forgot to tell @TransmutingSoul that the technology that he wants already exists. There is another option that is being developed. There is hydrogen. They already have an upwards of 300 miles. And they refuel in about 5 minutes. It is just a matter of infrastructure. In California in the US and limited other areas around the world they are already rolling out hydrogen. Here is part two of a series of videos, I posted the first one for @Twilight Hue above:

 

exchemist

Veteran Member
And I forgot to tell @TransmutingSoul that the technology that he wants already exists. There is another option that is being developed. There is hydrogen. They already have an upwards of 300 miles. And they refuel in about 5 minutes. It is just a matter of infrastructure. In California in the US and limited other areas around the world they are already rolling out hydrogen. Here is part two of a series of videos, I posted the first one for @Twilight Hue above:

Yes hydrogen may be a solution for long range and high energy requirements e.g. trucks. But of course it needs its own infrastructure, which is less well developed than electricity. One does not hear much about decarbonising road freight, actually.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
No it wouldn't.

All you are doing is stating the obvious issues that need to be solved. We need to get on and start solving them, not just whine about how hard it all is. And many countries are doing that, even if the US is too feeble and disorganized (not helped by a States' Rights - minded Supreme Court that seems to want to make it hard for the Executive to get anything done).
I'm not disagreeing with the latter part. But part of the way the US has stalled on solving obvious issues is offloading them onto private sector when that's not even close to the largest problems. EVs are not even particularly carbon neutral here given not just the manufacture of the cars themselves, but the batteries and charging with fossil fuel derived electricity. I'll be more impressed by the imperative to switching to EVs when we've cleared the hurdle of having more than 20% renewable for the commercial sector which far outweighs energy consumption and emissions of private sector. (Wasn't kidding about Amazon. They produce more pollution and use more energy than some countries.)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm not disagreeing with the latter part. But part of the way the US has stalled on solving obvious issues is offloading them onto private sector when that's not even close to the largest problems. EVs are not even particularly carbon neutral here given not just the manufacture of the cars themselves, but the batteries and charging with fossil fuel derived electricity. I'll be more impressed by the imperative to switching to EVs when we've cleared the hurdle of having more than 20% renewable for the commercial sector which far outweighs energy consumption and emissions of private sector. (Wasn't kidding about Amazon. They produce more pollution and use more energy than some countries.)

EV's are still a large over improvement over ICE's if the power comes from a fossil fuel source. The reason is that EV's are far more efficient at changing energy into power to the road than an ICE is. If you watch the video I just posted you will see a range of 70-90% efficiency for EV's and there is a peak efficiency of 35-45% for a modern ICE:

Advanced Combustion Engines
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
EV's are still a large over improvement over ICE's if the power comes from a fossil fuel source. The reason is that EV's are far more efficient at changing energy into power to the road than an ICE is. If you watch the video I just posted you will see a range of 70-90% efficiency for EV's and there is a peak efficiency of 35-45% for a modern ICE:

Advanced Combustion Engines
Still doesn't make a difference to us because, again, like millions of Americans, there isn't infrastructure to support apartment EV use, especially for family vehicles. And US sprawling suburban homes is doing way more wasting than if we built a ton more high rises.

But my point is when you factor the cost of building and the cost of battery manufacture, the efficiency gain isn't really all it's cracked up to be. And fairly miniscule gain if we're looking at global emissions as a whole. How much of the transportation emission comes from commercial use?
 

We Never Know

No Slack
You do not seem to fully understand the problem and what caused the forest fire. The more power that a line carries the hotter it gets. And of curse the hotter that it is outside the hotter the starting temperature of the power line The hotter that a length of metal gets the longer that it gets. So the natural heat of summer and the increased power consumption from air conditioners during the summer both add to the temperature of the power line. It will stretch and droop. It could conceivably droop to the ground in places. Clear cutting will not work in that situation.

Sure I don't fully understand the problem lol.
I talk to linemen that work out there and their stories of trees growing right beside, sometimes into the power lines. Tree limbs falling on the lines, being blown into the lines, etc. If they had at least 30-40 foot clearance on each side of those lines it would cut most all that out
I will take their personal accounts over internet stories any day.

But you keep on keeping on Joe :D
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It exists for those with the money.

None of the technology is useful, until it is affordable and practical.

Regards Tony
That's the thing that concerns me most.

Predatory cost and planned obsolescence.

It seems cheap, affordable, and reliability are the bane of corporations and politicians alike. They flat out don't want anybody to have that.
 
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