BrightShadow
Active Member
Anyone reading verse 4:34 will understand right away that it is a step by step deterrent but not you! Every English translation clearly states that "if they obey then do not seek ways to harm them" - but you disagree that it is a step by step process and say that all three needed to be done simultaneously.
Are you simply uncapable to understand plain text or are you purposely trying to misconstrue simple quotes? Ask any Muslim cleric and stop making up your own interpretations.
I already told you something on my post #53 on page 3 of this thread. I know you only read superficially because you are too eager to make your counter comments but take your time and read again if you really want to learn why you are not understanding the Quran and how you can change that.
Let me paraphrase and repost a part of it. Read it and try to understand.
Before you try to understand college level Calculus - you need a few years of high school level of mathematics (including trigonometry and logarithms) under your belt. That is the minimum prerequisite for learning calculus!
The prerequisite to even attempting to understand the Quran - is the fact that you need to have your heart at the right place! You need to believe in some sort of ONE God ideology! You need to have an idea about other religious dogmas so that you have some idea what to expect from the Quran as you can compare the narratives. Only then things will become clearer to you and you will begin to understand its message. The Quran emphasizes on the "oneness" of God and importance of faith in our everyday life and provides us moral guidance. The concept of monotheism is very important to God and if you don't even believe in any deity then your heart won't be in the right place to believe anything else that you read.
In other words - depending on - where your heart and mind is when you are reading the Quran and depending on what you are expecting to find - your eyes will show you what your heart desires! Your heart, your hearing and your sight could be covered as you could have been classified as a lost cause! [Quran 2:6-7]
You have made it very clear that checking and understanding the context is not your forte. You like to read superficially and understand whatever comes to your biased head. In layman's term - you have a close-fitting eyeglasses with orange lenses on and thus you are seeing everything orange and thinking everything is indeed orange. It is not!
Verse 5:33 comes after verse 5:32. In verse 5:32 the magnitude of "killing a life" or "saving a life" is explained. After that verse 5:33 is mentioned. So, the first thought to a normal human should be - the punishment mentioned in verse 5:33 MUST BE about some serious crime because it just said in 5:32 to not kill anyone and since different kinds of punishment are mentioned in verse 5:33 by using the word "or" between different descriptions - then the crimes indicated in verse 5:33 must be of a wide range of high to low severity.
So, obviously this verse is not simply a blanket statement and it doesn't apply to any single crime that you are suggesting. This is where your mind should tell you to investigate the context further and also seek historical connection to when the verse was revealed and why.
Did you do that? Nope! Instead you are concentrating on the word "fasad". So, if your doctor tells you to take Tylenol (Acetaminophen) for your pain - then would you come home and take 50 pills in one shot? Don't you need to know the dosage? So, why explanation is not needed to find out what kind of "fasad" this verse is all about?
This is where the importance of context becomes obvious because Muhammad's immediate followers knew the context and Muhammad also explained to his followers what kind of deadly crimes this verse is all about and every true Muslim can find the tafsir (explanation or interpretation with proper context) to that. No true Muslims read like you and think that this verse is about killing everyday simple disbelievers like you are suggesting. Your method of understanding seems to me worse than the terrorists because they actually have their reasons to hate a specific group of people who took their land. You don't hear them talking about Japanese nonbelievers... do you?
I know it is pointless to explain to you the context because you will either not read or continue with your own wrong position even after reading because it serves your agenda, I will try it once, just in case you take off your orange glasses! I believe I already explained it to someone else in another thread.
Since verse 5:32 is preceding verse 5:33 - any smart individual should realize that verse 5:33 is about some nasty and deceitful crime and thus an exception is made to punish that unique offender of that serious crime. Remember - you were just told that killing is bad!
But you ignore verse 5:32 and you think verse 5:33 is telling all Muslims to go and kill randomly... Right? You are wrong because countless verse in the Quran teaches otherwise. Even verse #32 teaches otherwise. So, common sense should tell anyone that -this verse (#33) must have a history behind it. It cannot be applied to all disbelievers in an universal form as you are claiming.
Anyhow, a slight check via google should suggest to you that this verse was revealed after some member of Urayna tribe men faked their desire to convert to Islam in order to steal from Muslims who helped them. They came and claimed to be ill from the weather and Muhammad and his men took them in and helped them recover and then after recovering they killed the host (Shepard) and stole all his possessions including Sheep/Camels and ran away. They did the killing and stealing after pretending to be converts and that means - it became a treasonous crime especially after they killed an innocent man who was helping them. What sort of punishment is justifiable in your eyes for someone like that?
What else were Muhammad men supposed to do? Just catch and release them? Wouldn't they come back and kill and and steal again? But regardless of all that possibility - the verse 5:34 suggest the ones who repent to be forgiven!Even in the modern days treason can be considered punishable by death in many countries including USA. For capital offenses such as murder, treason, genocide and act of terrorism is open to death penalty. So, why would you have a problem with this verse after understanding the context?
Different kind of punishment is described based on that incident for different kind of severe crime from their high to low severity. For example just for stealing - killing the offender was not prescribed and for lessor crime - banishment could be used.
So, your whole point is moot because you are trying to paint disbelievers as candidates for such severe punishment when simply that is not true! God can and will punish disbelievers Himself verse 5:36 - God did not ask Muslims to kill anyone for disbelieving!
You are proven wrong each times!
So, the reality is - 99.9999999999% Muslims are not killing anyone - so according to you only a handful of people (the terrorists) are following the teachings of Islam?
How crazy is that?!?
Are living on earth or are you from another planet?
It is an irony that you are a firm believer of a false and wrong version of Quran but you refuse to acknowledge the correct explanation even when you are shown!
