Let's see if we can define 'Islamophobia'.

[clara17]

Should we be comparing your "Not Islamopobia" to the biblical command that those of different religions are to be slaughtered?

There is no such Biblical command.

 

[Argentbear]

There is no such Biblical command.

been there done that and heard all the denials but they are still written there.

 

[clara17]

been there done that and heard all the denials but they are still written there.

which is probably why you can easily name a verse

 

[Argentbear]

which is probably why you can easily name a verse

done way back on page one.

 

[clara17]

done way back on page one.

i see that, i see where those poor examples were easily refuted

 

[Augustus]

It's not that the text doesn't move you away, it's that you're not moved away and you must use logic to explain it, so you come around to all these complicated explanations when all there really is is a lack of faith. It has nothing to do with evidence. After all, I had seen (probably more or less) the same evidence you had when I believed in the Quran while you did not.

Yes, I agree it is a matter of faith not evidence, reason or logic whether one considers a text divine or divinely inspired.

 

[Augustus]

See, none of this is evidence to your positive claim. Ad populum is another fallacy. Not evidence.

You are confusing yourself again in your attempts to be wilfully obtuse while weirdly pretending you don’t agree with me.

Saying billions of people have empirically observed A many times a day for thousands of years, while there is no significant evidence for B therefore A is probably more common is not an argument “ad populum”.

Saying the empirical experience of billions of people make it near certain that someone swam across a deep lake rather than walked across the water’s surface is not “ad populum”.

It is an evidence based explanation almost certain to be correct.

If you want to keep up the charade that you think otherwise, be my guest

It’s very boring though so ciao.

 

[Argentbear]

i see that, i see where those poor examples were easily refuted

You first said there was no such command
then you said I couldn't name any such command


Now when it was pointed out that the similar verse 9:111 was likewise a poor example and easily refuted the response was 'oh no, that's different.' leading back to my question. and the observation that there seems to be different standards for the two religions.

 

[nameless1]

MSN

I'll start.

Islamophobia - "All Muslims are terrorists."

Not Islamophobia - Acknowledging that verse 9:111 tells Muslims to fight, kill, and be killed in exchange for Allah admitting them to heaven.


Any quibbles so far?

I find it to be sexist

 

[nameless1]

As I noted, Islamophobia applies by definition because you deliberately distort the meaning of the verse which says "THEY fight" clearly referring to THEY, Muhammad's companions.

Fewer r islamophobic than jewphobic. Way more crimes against Jews than Muslims.. yet Jews make a small minority while Islam is 2nd largest religion

 

[stevecanuck]

I find it to be sexist

Correct, as you would expect from a 7th century Arab creed. In the Qur'an it's obvious that the target audience is male. It speaks TO men unless specifically stated, but ABOUT women (how to treat them, etc).

 

[stevecanuck]

Fewer r islamophobic than jewphobic. Way more crimes against Jews than Muslims.. yet Jews make a small minority while Islam is 2nd largest religion

Both Jews and Christians are criticized to the point of dehumanization (comparisons are made to donkeys, lost cattle, the worst of Allah's creatures, and dogs with their tongues lolling out). The entire Qur'an is 'kafraphobic' from start to finish (whether read in compilation order or chronologically).

 

[muhammad_isa]

Both Jews and Christians are criticized to the point of dehumanization..

In the context of their actions .. not in context of faith.
The Qur'an acknowledges "the people of the book", and says those who are righteous have
nothing to fear .. they will inherit paradise.

Hypocrites are another matter .. including so-called Muslims.

 

[firedragon]

You are confusing yourself again in your attempts to be wilfully obtuse while weirdly pretending you don’t agree with me.

Saying billions of people have empirically observed A many times a day for thousands of years, while there is no significant evidence for B therefore A is probably more common is not an argument “ad populum”.

Saying the empirical experience of billions of people make it near certain that someone swam across a deep lake rather than walked across the water’s surface is not “ad populum”.

It is an evidence based explanation almost certain to be correct.

If you want to keep up the charade that you think otherwise, be my guest

It’s very boring though so ciao.

Again insults are not evidence to your positive claim. So where is the evidence to your claim?

 

[stevecanuck]

In the context of their actions .. not in context of faith.

Why do you make these claims when you know full well that I can swat them away like mosquitos????

The following refer to Jews (unless otherwise stated):

- 2:75 - "They willfully distorted the word of Allah".
- 2:76-78 - "They would hear the word of God and understand it. Then they would purposely misinterpret it."
- 2:88 - "Allah has cursed them for their disbelief."
- 2:90 - "Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls ...Thus have they drawn on themselves wrath upon wrath."
- 2:92 - "You were evildoers."
- 2:93 - "How wretched is that which your faith enjoins upon you".
- 2:94-96 - "You will indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life."
- 3:71 - "O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians): 'Why do you mix truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?'"
- 3:112 - "Shame is pitched over them ... they draw on themselves wrath from Allah, and pitched over them is destitution.This because they rejected the Signs of Allah."
- 4:46 - "Among the Jews are those who distort words from their proper usages ... twisting their tongues and defaming the religion ... Allah has cursed them for their disbelief."
- 4:160 - "For the wrongdoing of the Jews ...."
- 5:13 - "We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places ... you shall always discover treachery in them except a few of them."
- 5:41 - "the Jews, avid listeners to falsehood ... They distort words beyond their usages ..."
- 5:42 - "[Jews are] avid listeners to falsehood, devourers of what is unlawful [usury]."
- 5:49 - "Do not follow their [Jews and Christians] desires. Beware of their mischievous deception."
- 5:63 - "Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their speaking evil and their devouring of illicit gain [usury]? Evil is their handiwork."
- 5:64 - "And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say."
- 5:82 - "You will find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe [Muslims] to be the Jews and idolaters."
- 9:29 - "Fight against those who believe not in Allah ... and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
- 9:30-32 - "The Jews say, 'Ezra is the Son of God.' ... God assail them! How they are perverted! ... They want to extinguish the light of Allah with their mouths."
- 16:118 - "And unto those who are Jews ... We wronged them not, but they were wont to wrong themselves."
- 62:5 - "Those who were to carry the responsibility of the Torah but ignored it, are like donkeys laden with books. How terrible is the example of the people who reject the revelations of God."
- 62:6-7 - "You who are Jews! If you claim that you are favoured of Allah apart from mankind, then long for death if you are truthful. But they will not wish for it, ever, because of what their hands have put forth. And Allah is Knowing of the wrongdoers."
- 98:6 - "Indeed, those who disbelieved among the People of the Scripture [Jews and Christians] ... will be in the fire of Hell, abiding eternally therein. Those are the worst of creatures."

The Qur'an acknowledges "the people of the book", and says those who are righteous have
nothing to fear .. they will inherit paradise.

I've highlighted the tricky bit that proves your use of sophistry.

Verse 2:41 provides the first clue as to what "righteous" means. It issued the stunning command to the Jews of Yathrib to "believe in what I reveal [the Qur'an] confirming the revelation which is with you [The Torah/Old Testament]." Mohamed spectacularly told them that their religious beliefs of approximately 2,500 years were to be updated and henceforth viewed through the lens of the Qur'an. And he was not asking. He was telling.

Several other verses repeat this theme in terms of both Jews and Christians. In other words, those Jews and Christians who adopt the Qur'an as God's final communication (convert to Islam) are the only ones who will be saved. The rest are hell-bound unbelievers.

You lie. Again. Still.

Hypocrites are another matter .. including so-called Muslims.

Correct, and the reason they are also hell-bound is that they promised to fight, but never did. How's that for a 'religion of peace'?

 

[Augustus]

Why do you make these claims when you know full well that I can swat them away like mosquitos????

Still can’t name a time when Muslims have been disproportionately violent compared to other groups though, but then again you also lack the wit to understand why this matters to your argument…

 

[Augustus]

Again insults are not evidence to your positive claim. So where is the evidence to your claim?

Massively well attested empirical evidence is evidence though, but if you could understand that, you’d have done so by now.

See you next thread

 

[firedragon]

Massively well attested empirical evidence is evidence though

What evidence have you provided?

 

[Augustus]

What evidence have you provided?

If only you could realise meaning can be gleaned from reading words in context, you’d be able to work this out for yourself…

But alas you can not, so let’s see if the penny drops before the next thread.

Until then, ciao.

 

[stevecanuck]

Still can’t name a time when Muslims have been disproportionately violent compared to other groups though, but then again you also lack the wit to understand why this matters to your argument…

Okay, I'll play your game. The reason th .......................... hey, look - a blue car.