Let's talk about Hell

[Danny Heim]

Just do the right thing -and everything will work out fine -but you'll have to re-define what is right in your mind. It's what you think you must do which is the hook.
You think you're fishing, but you're being reeled in by doing this -no matter who you are. Returning -rest -quietness -confidence -strength -that's all you need -no matter who you are -who you represent -or where you are. I know it is against everything "natural" -but it is not natural to do the right thing. Stop struggling against your maker. It is possible to learn a lesson before the end of the matter.

Job 41:1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
Job 41:2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
Job 41:3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
Job 41:4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
Job 41:5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
Job 41:6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
Job 41:7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
Job 41:8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
Job 41:9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
Job 41:10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
Job 41:11 Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
Job 41:12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.
Job 41:13 Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
Job 41:14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
Job 41:15His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
Job 41:16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
Job 41:17 They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
Job 41:18 By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
Job 41:19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
Job 41:20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
Job 41:21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
Job 41:22 In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.
Job 41:23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.
Job 41:24 His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.
Job 41:25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.
Job 41:26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
Job 41:27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
Job 41:28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
Job 41:29 Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
Job 41:30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
Job 41:31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
Job 41:32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.
Job 41:33 Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.
Job 41:34 He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

....only God. ....only if you do the right thing. ....then the monster from your id -no matter who you are -may be turned back.

I don't agree. We will have to redefine how we do things, and that means our thinking, if that is what you meant. And of course, I am only referring to the collective mind. No doubt, it greatly affects the individual as well, more so perhaps.

By doing what, are we being reeled in? You’ve lost me there.

 

[Etritonakin]

Whatever -God isn't buying it. Psych stuff doesn't work on him.

This is the collective mind with which you should be concerned...

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

This "one mind" is actually Satan's mind. The same which now coordinates things such as the line at the supermarket tonight. It is not wrong to be of one accord, but a "collective mind" can also become mass-manipulation. It is how he is destroying us "wonderfully". To be in agreement is good, except when it is agreement on a bad plan... such as is happening now.....

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

It's just in vain -especially considering it is they who need to loose their cords from God's work. They're the ones not minding their own business and stirring up trouble. Some think everything is their business -but God disagrees -and is acting.

 

[Hawkins]

God (the universe) does exist. That is why we will evolve.

I don't know if you realise this or not. The statment make not much difference to a "my faith is right and your faith is wrong" assertion!

 

[Etritonakin]

I don't know if you realise this or not. The statment make not much difference to a "my faith is right and your faith is wrong" assertion!

Their statement also suggests that evolution is a given due to the existence of the universe.... whereas evolution -if it is what they claim it to be -was not inevitable -but some cosmic fluke -AND MAY ITSELF BE SUBJECT TO EXTINCTION. Life itself may end and need not happen again -if what they say is true.
Evolution concerns life -which they claim happened randomly, and without design.
To suggest that life was inevitable is to suggest that the "big bang" was less a fortunate fluke for us -and more a seed -which contained within it what it was to become -fertile soil for other seeds.

This is exactly what I believe the "big bang" to be>> a "seed" God designed and planted. I also believe he tends this garden -and plants even more seeds within it.

Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Danny Heim]

Whatever -God isn't buying it. Psych stuff doesn't work on him.

This is the collective mind with which you should be concerned...

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

This "one mind" is actually Satan's mind. The same which now coordinates things such as the line at the supermarket tonight. It is not wrong to be of one accord, but a "collective mind" can also become mass-manipulation. It is how he is destroying us "wonderfully". To be in agreement is good, except when it is agreement on a bad plan... such as is happening now.....

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

It's just in vain -especially considering it is they who need to loose their cords from God's work. They're the ones not minding their own business and stirring up trouble. Some think everything is their business -but God disagrees -and is acting.

I disagree again. The collective mind, just like any other mind, has the will to survive. Ultimately, it learns how to stay alive. Our collective mind is very young in geologic time. We may surpise ourselves as to what we might grow up to become.

 

[no-body]

No_body



I think you misunderstood me. I hear this argument about pink unicorns said by OTHER people too much, I refuted it, I have yet to receive a response to my refutation to it yet. I did not refute it to you though.

For you, I am simply asking for the source or the book that mentions the pink unicorn since you said it is mentioned in old books.

Well there is a distinction because I said unicorns I know nothing of these pink ones. Some books they are mentioned in: pliny the elder in natural history, aristotle in on the parts of an animal and strabos in geography. Supposedly there is fossil evidence for them at "unicorn cave"

Did I misunderstand you? What did you mean by the quote you said, which is again

“unicorns, sure there are signs of them in old books”?

Also I don’t know of the evidence or lack of it for unicorns or not, so I will not say anything about it. But I do know of the evidence for a hell. So unicorns are a different case then hell. Lets deal with the case of hell, not unicorns right now. Could we do that?

I already explained to you what scientist theorize is happening when near death experiences happen and you ignored it. So you are telling me you trust the memories of someone who has gone through a traumatic experience rather than an objective scientist that measure the chemicals in the brain and compares the psychology of people going through these experiences?

How is intelligent design not equal in evidence or theory for the data to evolution? Details please?

We have fossil evidence for evolution and there is evidence for it encoded in our genes to complete the gaps. Anything we haven't found yet is just that. But again these our logical leaps, if scientist found an alternate explanation tomorrow it would have to accept it.

Empirical theory?

The scientific method, here is a definition: "refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses."

How is there no evidence for intelligent design but yet there is evidence for evolution? How?

DNA and fossil records.

Again, as much as I disagree with the flat earth view, STILL it’s inconsistent to tell the kids to think critically and yet then ask them NOT to question certain things you teach dogmatically. Right? Let them hear about the flat earth view and then hear the round earth one and then let them think critically. TEST there critical thinking by LETTING them hear all sides of stuff. Either that, or don’t teach them critical thinking skills, because that is not what you want from them anyway, what you would truly want is for them to accept everything you say without questioning it. Let’s be consistent, otherwise were just going to confuse the kids. Now some won’t care about being confused and some will.

Of course but they must be taught what is scientific fact and law, what has the most evidence. It would be a waste of time to teach psuedosciences like astrology, flat earth and creationism unless it is to show how they are wrong. If the kids want to use the scientific method to look at these methods and find something new that proves them right on their own, well good for them.

Evolution is based on observable facts and evidence hey? I have never observed a micro organism turn into a man, never. I have never observed it happening within the span of millions of years either, because I can’t live that long to OBSERVE IT, neither can you nor all those scientists, can they? Also any tests they do and have done never caused evolution to happen, sure, maybe some little tiny changes, but those happen without experiments when people and animals give birth to young.

It's called deductive reasoning. No wonder logical leaps frighten you, your entire logic is based on magical thinking. Of course you can't actually observe what happened millions of years ago but you can't do that with creationism either. At least with science you can do an experiment with short living creatures like fruit flies or bacteria on a smaller scale then make a decision on logic. Are you saying it's more logical that God sent rain to the earth for 40 days and nights and all animals are descended from the animals on an ark? What's the creationist proof for that?

Also based on your standard of evidence for evolution here, well intelligent design has the SAME KIND of evidence for it. Science has done experiments with trying to create life, one I heard recently about “synthia”, but when they designed this life form, it was not made by evolution, it was made by INTILLIGENT TEAM OF SCIENTISTS. Thus, “intelligent design”.

No it doesn't at least not when you use common sense, how about you show me what kind of evidence creationist have? Scientist recreating nature through an experiment doesn't constitute intelligent design, it's called (I believe, again I'm no scientist) a controlled experiment but this goes back to your former statement of not being able to "see" evolution which is exactly what they just did. Really it's all just a thinly veiled attempt to indoctrinate religion into schools anyways.

 

[Danny Heim]

I don't know if you realise this or not. The statment make not much difference to a "my faith is right and your faith is wrong" assertion!

That is correct. Becasue we none of us know anything much about God, nobody has shown to be right about God so far, including me and you. And most likely, we ALL have he/she/it very wrong.

 

[no-body]

Yea, I know you have a problem with the premise (that part I already know, and you just keep letting me know it over and over again) but why do you have a problem with the premise? ..

What do you mean why do I think that way? Because that's what I think after looking at all the data of God and the bible. I've already gone over why in my other posts I don't see how I haven't answered the question.

Also your misunderstanding my view and putting words in my mouth that I did not say..

You told me that God is not just for letting us die because of Adam..

Care to refute my argument?

I've already gone over all of this before and why, you have a different point of view from me and can't seem to understand that. There is no debating such logic because it's not based on reasoning or deductions it's all about faith and belief. I have my own mystical religious views the only difference is I would never wish to foist them on the entirety of society or even claim that they are logical, I freely admit they are probably only a psychological tool when viewed through science.

So it’s important just because you say it’s important? Really? Why do you say it’s important now? Tell me something I don’t yet know.

Also concerning the broad sense, why are we MEANT to increase ourselves? Why does evolution have an INTENT or a “meant” to increase us? As if it had a mind of it’s own?

Not because I personally say it's important, because we as a species get together and say it is. Evolution has no mind of it's own, the purpose of creatures are to breed and propagate. We have evolved our minds and can take it to the next level, the best society instead of the best individual.

First off you assume that religion has all superstitions, you don’t know that, so why drop it?

Secondly, if religion is not TRUE, why the heck has it been GOOD as a starting crutch? Is LIES ever GOOD?

Not lies per say but just our understanding of the world at the time. It was needed because people where gullible and needed a way to be taught. If you're looking for the "why" that is a different discussion, I am trying to separate here my own personal beliefs based on eastern spirituality and secular society. These posts are long enough.

Truth is the ultimate reality of all realities. Truth is simply that which is real or true or correct, or factual, or right. It’s not false. It holds ALL the answers to all life’s questions.

So you can't see how your truth is subjective and in no way testable and applicable to every single person?

How are all beliefs treated equal though? That is never done. Let me give you a simple example using the forum.

If someone breaks the rules of the forum and the administrator warns them not to do that or else. And then they keep breaking the rule, then the administrator asks them why they are doing that? Then they say, well it’s simply my BELIEF to do that. Is there ANY possible way for the administrator to treat the members belief as equal as the others who believe in KEEPING the rules?

Actually you just posted a good example of how it would be equal. The site doesn't base it's beliefs on any religion it has a set of rules and all beliefs must adhere to it. Of course life is not black and white there are many gray examples which is why the officials must always set their beliefs on the back burner and be impartial. Just because you don't believe it can be done doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Changes are good as long as they stay within the boundaries of reality (truth)...

Speaking broadly changes are neither bad nor good and are just something inevitable. There is a cycle to all things. The truth will be the truth no matter what happens and if it really the truth will be able to withstand any sort of change.

The same forever? Your missing the whole point, it’s not that we want things to remain the same forever, it’s that we want the TRUE beliefs to stay the same forever...

The same forever in an unconscious sense, beliefs are part of this. But again if it's really the truth it will stand on it's own.

Hold on their, your making assumptions about people now. Your assuming that all religious folks fear death, so they make up comfortable beliefs in order to sooth there fear of death. How do you know that is the motivation of everyone who believes something?

Secondly, some people, LIKE MYSELF believe in a afterlife not based on a fear of death but based on near death experiences and a personal out of body experience that I myself had. I believe it based on the fact that I HONESTLY believe it, not based on a fear of death.

I've already explained near death experience and subjective experiences aren't actual evidence. Seems like you honestly believe it because you fear death like everyone else, whether you are conscious of it intellectually or not. It might not be the motivation of everyone but it is one of the primal ones for religion. I'm not excluding myself from this.

Actually TRUE religion is NOT MOTIVATED by power, it’s motivated by love, care, honesty and truth and freedom. Get off this thing about power.

I agree with this.

This is a misunderstanding of God and the bible. The bible is not trying to stagnate us culturally. It’s not against investigating and building civilization, absolutely not. Also we do humble ourselves and realize we don’t know and understand everything, we are honest where we don’t know something. But some things we DO know and some things we DO believe and those beliefs are based on good evidence. That is not being PROUD, that is based on being rational. Humbling ourselves does not mean staying agnostic, it means to realize there is some mystery, but there is good reasons, evidence and we should not gamble with truth, so it takes a leap as well.

How does religion stagnate us? Tell me that?

On a personal level you can believe whatever you like but science must always be agnostic because that is just it's nature. When you ask everyone to believe the same "truth" that stagnates us, because there is no proof that you are the one true religion no matter how much you personally believe you have the perfect truth.

Yes it does make your opinion of it wrong because you’re not taking into account other parts Of it. You’re doing what basically a cult would do, cherry pick verses and then build a religion out of it. If you’re going to formulate an opinion of the bible you first have to take into account both the broad context of the whole book and all the little contexts of each chapter. And all the things said. That is making a WISE kind of opinion, and not making a foolish opinion.

What nonsense cults can be very many different things. I cherry pick the bible because I don't believe the bible is inspired by God nor is their any historical proof that it is wholly true so taking into account the whole doesn't really matter to me, I'd rather separate the wheat from the chaff. There is as much evidence for it being the word of God as is the book of mormon, the koran, the vedas, etc.

If you want to talk about cult behavior how about putting your hands into a bunch of elders who are free to make all sorts of judgments on your behavior with impunity but can apparently be mistaken about huge things, like the end of the world.

Mine is the objective truth because first off, I take into account EVERYTHING the bible says as a whole, you didn’t....

Which is all ultimately based on a feeling of belief you have. The archeology and history you have might match up to some of the things in the bible but it doesn't prove miracles and the supernatural aspects. If you have real objective 100% proof of the bible based on the scientific model then I'm all ears, it would be a historic day on earth. Or you could just say something about Satan and how the unbelievers will look at the truth and ignore it instead I guess.

 

[Willamena]

I took a tour recently through Tibetan hell. It's here, toward the end.

[youtube]gFy8YxU6Qo8[/youtube]
YouTube - The Tibetan Book of the Dead - The Great Liberation (Part 2/5) (Part 2)

It continually stresses that in order to move on from this place one has to recognize and face the things of hell as a reflection of the mind.

See also Part 3.

 

[Etritonakin]

I disagree again. The collective mind, just like any other mind, has the will to survive. Ultimately, it learns how to stay alive. Our collective mind is very young in geologic time. We may surpise ourselves as to what we might grow up to become.

"Ultimately, it learns to stay live." What proof is there of that? It's a nice hope, but not a given -especially if it refuses to learn.

Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.


That includes elderly moms and kids!

It's gonna be great!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"
Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
That includes elderly moms and kids!
It's gonna be great!

Psalm 110v1 mentions two [2] LORD/Lord's. One LORD [YHWH] is in all uppercase letters. Whereas, the other Lord in not in all capitals.
Who is the LORD of all uppercase letters, and who is the Lord not in all capitals?

 

[Etritonakin]

H113
אדן אדון
'âdôn 'âdôn
aw-done', aw-done'
From an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, that is, controller (human or divine): - lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with "Adoni-".

In Psalm 110, the second Lord -from the word above -probably refers to David>>>>>

1Ki 1:37 As the LORD hath been with my lord the king, even so be he with Solomon, and make his throne greater than the throne of my lord king David.

Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

 

[Danny Heim]

"Ultimately, it learns to stay live." What proof is there of that? It's a nice hope, but not a given -especially if it refuses to learn.

Mic 4:4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.


That includes elderly moms and kids!

It's gonna be great!

There is no proof, you have to believe.

 

[Hawkins]

That is correct. Becasue we none of us know anything much about God, nobody has shown to be right about God so far, including me and you. And most likely, we ALL have he/she/it very wrong.

You assume too fast, you can assume for your own account but not me. You don't know me, remember?

I think that I have acquired all the evidence a sane person may require to be persuaded about the Bible God's existence. Actually I have to reason backward to see what bugs a human mind that causing his disbelief. And I made some progress on this.

 

[Etritonakin]

There is no proof, you have to believe.

You have to learn how -believing does nothing. Fortunately, God had written what it will take for any to survive -so it might not be uncertain -or take 8 million years.

 

[Danny Heim]

You have to learn how -believing does nothing. Fortunately, God had written what it will take for any to survive -so it might not be uncertain -or take 8 million years.

Learn what how??

 

[Etritonakin]

Let's learn this collective mind -or "MKULTRA on steroids"

Mind control requires that people are forced to knowingly do that which they will not to do -or be deceived so they will to do that which is actually not what they "know" they are doing.

There are not actually "two kinds".
The "first kind" are those who will to control, believe in the goals and ways of the controllers or are rewarded by them and so cooperate willingly. They are those who knowingly and willingly do harm, etc... There may be two intents -but they work toward the same end. The "second kind" are those who would thwart the first kind, but are deceived so as to do the will of the first kind. The second kind would be threat to the first kind, so the controllers factor them into the equation -and make them assets.

For there to truly be a second kind -which means a kind which actually counters the control of the first kind, they would truly need to be a different kind -and have vision.
They would need to employ tactics which were different than the contollers -and they would need to see correctly. They would need to understand clearly what they were against -know it completely -and know a better way than what they are against. They would need to know right from wrong. They would need to reject the "us against them" mentality (it is difficult to know who intends what, anyway -and the first kind often hide behind the "but they made us" excuse.) -and learn what is good -and what is evil. To counter control, they would have to ACTUALLY make people free -rather than control them themselves. The first kind chase the second kind to a relatively warm place where they are still controlled, but believe they are as free as possible.
There would have to truly be "good guys" -rather than one group of evil guys fighting another.

The good guys think they are "outside", but are still "inside" on the "holodeck". Truth is outside. God is outside. The beast's peeps have made most -if not all -of America -ESPECIALLY THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY the first or second kind. CRAFT- spiritual spycraft -IS PROSPERING IN HIS HAND.

DO THE RIGHT THING! Quit runnin' around acting like fools! The enemy is laughing at you!

....more later.

 

[Benoni]

To start with the pagan word hell is not even in the original language of the Bible. It is a mistranlation.

 

[Danny Heim]

Let's learn this collective mind -or "MKULTRA on steroids"

Mind control requires that people are forced to knowingly do that which they will not to do -or be deceived so they will to do that which is actually not what they "know" they are doing.

There are not actually "two kinds".
The "first kind" are those who will to control, believe in the goals and ways of the controllers or are rewarded by them and so cooperate willingly. They are those who knowingly and willingly do harm, etc... There may be two intents -but they work toward the same end. The "second kind" are those who would thwart the first kind, but are deceived so as to do the will of the first kind. The second kind would be threat to the first kind, so the controllers factor them into the equation -and make them assets.

For there to truly be a second kind -which means a kind which actually counters the control of the first kind, they would truly need to be a different kind -and have vision.
They would need to employ tactics which were different than the contollers -and they would need to see correctly. They would need to understand clearly what they were against -know it completely -and know a better way than what they are against. They would need to know right from wrong. They would need to reject the "us against them" mentality (it is difficult to know who intends what, anyway -and the first kind often hide behind the "but they made us" excuse.) -and learn what is good -and what is evil. To counter control, they would have to ACTUALLY make people free -rather than control them themselves. The first kind chase the second kind to a relatively warm place where they are still controlled, but believe they are as free as possible.
There would have to truly be "good guys" -rather than one group of evil guys fighting another.

The good guys think they are "outside", but are still "inside" on the "holodeck". Truth is outside. God is outside. The beast's peeps have made most -if not all -of America -ESPECIALLY THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY the first or second kind. CRAFT- spiritual spycraft -IS PROSPERING IN HIS HAND.

DO THE RIGHT THING! Quit runnin' around acting like fools! The enemy is laughing at you!

....more later.

You forgot one kind. That is the people whose butts are against the wall and it's change or die--kind. That kind, at some point in the near future, will be the entire human species. There will be no hierarchy in that world, just chaos.

 

[Danny Heim]

To start with the pagan word hell is not even in the original language of the Bible. It is a mistranlation.

That's probably true. but the way it's turned out, doesn't make any difference now, the mold has been set.